<p>A close friend of mine is almost done with his undergraduate studies (pre-pharm track) and will be seeking pharmacy schools. Unfortunately, his GPA is an abysmal 2.0-something and he has not taken the PCATs yet--but judging from his academic record it does not look very promising. I'm very concerned for him, because he has lost a lot of confidence in himself (and his parents have lost confidence in him as well). Most of his science course grades are Cs, Ds, and Fs with about 2 Bs. I feel completely terrible for him at this point. It is late in his undergraduate career and it seems like he will not be admitted to his only, prospective choice, Temple School of Pharmacy. What is a student to do in this situation? I advised him to talk to his advisor and a specific health professions advisor if his school had it (a public university in Maryland).</p>
<p>Does anyone know of any pharmacy schools that he may have a shot at? I would appreciate any insight or experiences that anyone can bring. Thank you for reading this long post and I hope to translate this advice to him as well.</p>
<p>I think before applying to pharmacy schools, he should seriously re-evaluate his reasons for wanting to apply there. If he is not very good at science courses, he will end up struggling in the pharmacy occupation for the rest of his life. At this point he should stop and seriously ask himself, "why pharmacy? Why not something else? Have I also explored other options that interest me?"</p>
<p>It just seems like entering a field in which you have little chances for success is like setting yourself up for constant failure. Why does he want to do that? Not only will most schools reject his application with such low academic performance, but he will waste a lot of money and time.</p>
<p>Perhaps he should consider studying independently and taking some of these courses over again to prove that he can pass them with a B or higher. Other suggestions are: applying to less competitive graduate programs in biochemistry or chemistry rather than pharmacy school and applying for a job relevant to his field of study where he can prove his ability and get recommendation letters confirming this.</p>
<p>To boost his confidence he should realize that he is not the only one in this situation. Since class averages are set in many college courses to C+/B- a big percentage of students end up getting a C or lower in any particular course. He should not envision himself as being happy only at pharmacy school and should explore other options. Who knows, may be getting a job and a nice salary would also prove fulfilling for him (and make parents happy).</p>
<p>if the guy wants to go into pharmacy, who are you to tell him otherwise?</p>
<p>all i can say is that if you really want to go, and you put in some actual effort, then you will get in.</p>
<p>As far as which are the easiest schools with the least demands, i'm not too sure cuz this isn't my field, but i'm sure someone out there can help.</p>
<p>don't take it so hard on yourself. Go have a couple of beers to relax yourself and think about it! the guy above does make good points as far as WHY you want to go into that. But regardless of your performance, i back you all the way if you want to do that and are convinced of it.</p>
<p>I'm thinking he doesn't have much of a chance at pharmacy...why does he want to do that for a living when he does so bad at science classes?</p>
<p>If he does enjoy science/medicine, is he interested in something like nursing, clinical lab tech, nurse practitioner? Those have less emphasis on the grades</p>
<p>pharmacy schools are not as competitive as dental or medical schools, that much is for sure. With grades like d' and f's, that doesn't show the admissions council that you've been killing yourself. But with c's and a few b's in science courses and lots of a's in the general ed requirements, then there is a good chance of getting in.</p>
<p>Alls i'm saying is that if he retakes those courses and gets good grades then he has a definite shot.</p>
<p>Sounds as if he's in a difficult situation. You said his gpa is a 2.0-something. That could mean it's as low as a 2.1 or thereabouts or as high as a 2.9, which could make a considerable difference.<br>
Also, what are his reasons for having gotten poor grades? Did he feel he did just about as well as he could (studied, tried really hard, just found those classes difficult)? Or did he have personal problems or other things going on in life that brought his grades down - is he capable of getting significantly higher grades? Those are things that should probably be taken into consideration when deciding what his next step should be.</p>
<p>I have an older friend who went into engineering and knew that was what he wanted to do. His first time around, he got poor grades, about a 2.2 gpa, and didn't finish his degree (mostly because the school closed down the program, he told me). He said his reason for his poor grades was that he was working almost full-time and didn't have nearly enough time to study. He was going to school only part-time, but engineering classes can be intense.
He took some time off from school and worked. A while later, he started working on his degree again anew (didn't ask for any of his old credits to transfer), at a community college. From there on he transferred to a 4-year school and chose not to hold down a job in the meantime, so he'd be able to concentrate on his studies. He graduated with a 3.58 gpa.
Of course, he had a long road to his engineering degree, and not everyone would be willing to put that many years into what ideally takes only four years. But I guess he felt it was worth it.</p>
<p>I just looked up admissions info on pharm programs, and he's going to have a tough time. Many outright state a 3.0 as their minimum requirement, with some as low as 2.5, but as it is competitive, the actual GPAs listed of the entering classes are higher, most between 3.2-3.8. He's also going to need to do well on the PCAT.</p>
<p>It's hard to say that someone will not get into career that they want, but there is definitely some serious work to do before he can get into these programs, esp. since the prereqs even are poor grades. Every program required at least a C in every prereq. I'm actually surprised his advisor hasn't discussed this situation with him yet, but he needs to. The work for a few years option is not a bad one - it shows maturity. if he can work somewhere science-related, it will help with later admissions and redoing the courses. But he WILL have to retake some of those courses, as he MUST have at least a C to qualify for admissions. And it isn't coldhearted to ask him to reconsider a career in a field he has been struggling in, it's realistic. Sometimes we get an idea of what we want in our heads, but we're really cut out for something else equally cool. It's not a bad idea to explore other careers, and his advisor should be having those conversations with him.</p>
<p>As for his GPA, it is no higher than a 2.5, and I would imagine it being closer to 2.2 or 2.3. His prereqs are just about complete, and he has had to retake about 2 or 3 of these classes (received Fs), but fortunately, he passed with a C in each of these classes. I've been lightly pushing the idea that pharmacy might not be his thing, but he can be stubborn and show "selective hearing"--hearing only what he wants to hear, and anything else he'll respond with "okay, whatever". I know, that sounds really immature, but it is. Really, he will need a serious wake-up call if he wants to have a successful career in pharmacy.</p>
<p>Whenever I talk to him about his studies, he seems to be spending a lot of time reviewing notes, etc. But I also suspect that this is not necessarily effective studying.</p>
<p>It's unfortunate, because I feel that his study habits and academic performance is a reflection of his character. I hate to say this (but as a friend), he was (and still appears to be) spoiled and immature in this way, yet he claims to be working harder, but I don't know what to believe anymore. Anyway, thanks for the advice, and at this point, I'm hoping he will realize soon enough that success does not come easily.</p>
<p>Perhaps not getting accepted to pharm school will be the best thing for him. When I started my undergrad, I was way too immature, did horribly, and left to work. After about three years I went back to undergrad (this time with my son in tow) as a far more mature person and was very successful. Working in the real world with a real life was ultimately the best thing to make me grow up a little. Failure isn't always a bad thing, as long as it produces a better result. it's cool that you care so much about your friend, and I'm sure your career path will be far more successful.</p>
<p>I feel that a path like the one you took would be effective for him. However, he will have finished his fourth year by the end of this semester, and he has already enrolled for this coming summer, next fall, and next spring (when he should graduate if everything turns out well).</p>
<p>In case this plan follows through, and assuming he does not go to pharmacy school, would working experience improve his chances if he is still interested in pharm school in a few years? He will most likely pass all his prereqs, but would it be wise to retake these courses (after he graduates) even after passing (with Cs)?</p>
<p>"but he can be stubborn and show "selective hearing"--hearing only what he wants to hear, and anything else he'll respond with "okay, whatever"." </p>
<p>You know there have been studies done to correlate self-assessment of competence with actual competence. Turns out that on the low end of the competence spectrum the gap between self-assessment in competence and actual competence is very wide. People who are incompetent in result tend to overestimate their own abilities greatly. I've just observed one example last year of a guy who got kicked out of graduate school. It was clear to everyone that he was unable to do graduate work, but himself, which in turn made him very resentful of everyone and everything around him. It is like a certain phenotype of people, a protective casing they develop which makes them unaware of reality. I think your friend should strive to become very aware of the fact that course work in pharm schools is heavily science-based and gettings F's won't pull him through.</p>
<p>DespSeekPhd is right in that failure can prove to have a very positive impact on one's life. Not to say that finding work after graduation is somehow a failing choice. Professional and grad school students do like to fantasize about what kind of life they'd lead if only they had real jobs and more money (those are the ones without rich parents). Some say they feel they are making a sacrifice by doing all this extra studying - spending their 20s in dusty libraries and all-night prep parties drugged up on caffeine instead of traveling, partying, dating, and even getting enough sleep.</p>
<p>Having work experience helps because hopefully he will learn some of the critical tasks he'll need in pharm school. But this is only true is he is able to get good recommendation letters from his employers who'd attest his ability and maturity. As I understand with pharm majors, there are two types of work: an actual pharmacy or a pharmaceutical company, this latter type of work being more beneficial for learning actual biology and chemistry in preparation.</p>
<p>I'm sorry about being unclear about my previous post when I mentioned him to be "stubborn" and having "selective hearing", but when I mentioned those attributes about him, I was talking about the fact that he does not listen when someone tells him to get to work. He is immature in that he will only listen when he is not being yelled at. For example, if I tell him, "you need to get better grades", he would most likely respond with "okay, okay, I will.." in a bit of an insincere way with no real intent of changing. Moreover, he is spoiled and ungrateful for a lot that his parents have done for him. For example, he continuously whined and cried because his parents did not buy him a car and continuously blamed his lack of successful for getting a pharmacy job because his parents did not buy him a car. I know I'm getting personal now (maybe too personal), and it might be difficult to describe a person like him if you don't know one like him in person.</p>
<p>However, the bottom line is, he certainly does not overestimate his abilities. After speaking with him many times (he mostly confides in me about school because he generally does not like to talk about school for obvious reasons) about his academics, he knows that he is not the best student and there is much room for improvement, however he shows little signs of changing that.</p>
<p>Thank you for the continued posts, as I try to make sense of this situation and help my friend, who does not appear motivated to help himself.</p>
<p>Im a recent college grad and I am interested in pharmacy school. I have a degree in chemistry and currently have a 2.7 gpa. before applying to pharmacy school, I know i need some extra classes such as anatomy and physiology an bio chem. These are classes that Im planning to take, as well as the PCAT. My concern is is it worth the trouble to spend the money and tak these classes with my circumstance. I have everywhere about Phar school requirments. I have heard of the 3.0 and higher gpa, to the 2.5 requirment with a good personal statement and PCT score. I am really at a stand still and I have no idea what to do. Please help? any suggestions</p>
<p>If your GPA is subpar, then you will need something else that makes your application stand out and that shows them you are well rounded. Try giving a few admissions offices a call and see if you can set up and appointment for them to help review your chances of getting in and what you can do to best improve your chances of matriculation. They may give you a better idea if it is worth spending that extra money to take the classes.</p>