<p>Based on the Survey of Earned Doctorates by the National Science Foundation</p>
<p>school, number of bachelors graduates who went on for PhDs </p>
<p>CORNELL UNIVERSITY 3616
HARVARD UNIVERSITY 3032
MASSACHUSETTS INST. OF TECHNOLOGY 2408
YALE UNIVERSITY 2195
STANFORD UNIVERSITY 2188
UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA 1918
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY 1915
BROWN UNIVERSITY 1870
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN NEW YORK 1325
DARTMOUTH COLLEGE 1020
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY 881</p>
<p>adjusted for size of freshman class in 2001</p>
<p>school, number of bachelors graduates who went on for PhDs, number of freshmen 2001, ratio</p>
<p>CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY 214 881 4.117
MASSACHUSETTS INST. OF TECHNOLOGY 1027 2408 2.345
CORNELL UNIVERSITY 1950 3616 1.854
HARVARD UNIVERSITY 1639 3032 1.850
YALE UNIVERSITY 1296 2195 1.694
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY 1185 1915 1.616
BROWN UNIVERSITY 1377 1870 1.358
STANFORD UNIVERSITY 1615 2188 1.355
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN NEW YORK 1338 1325 0.990
DARTMOUTH COLLEGE 1135 1020 0.899
UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA 2410 1918 0.796</p>
<p>I'm not surprised that Penn and Dartmouth are at the bottom of this list on a per capita basis. They're great schools with great students, but they've always struck me as the most pre-professional and least purely "intellectual" of the Ivies. I'm a little surprised that Columbia's right down there with them, though.</p>
<p>Why not divide your results by 12 to get a rough approximation of % of students per class who go on for a PhD? </p>
<p>Do you have this updated info for other national univs, LACs as well?</p>
<p>bclintonk,
I am not sure which schools are more pre-professional than others. Cornell has many engineering students who pursue masters degrees in engineering, for example. I'd like to see statistics about this, if they exist. But I agree that Penn and Dartmouth have pre-professional reputions.</p>
<p>gellino,
I have information about other top universities and LACs and wil post it later today.</p>
<p>Isn't Cornell's freshman class more like 3000, and not 1950?</p>
<p>I have no intention of getting a PhD. I don't think getting a PhD should be a useful measure of the excellence of a school</p>
<p>There are people in this world who do things, and then there are people who write PhD dissertations about those people who did things. I'd rather be one of the doers than one of the people compiling his footnotes.</p>
<p>US News top 30 universities 2008</p>
<p>school, number of freshmen 2001, number of bachelors graduates who went on for PhD, ratio</p>
<p>CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY 214 881 4.117
MASSACHUSETTS INST. OF TECHNOLOGY 1027 2408 2.345
CORNELL UNIVERSITY-ENDOWED COLLEGE 1950 3616 1.854
HARVARD UNIVERSITY 1639 3032 1.850
YALE UNIVERSITY 1296 2195 1.694
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY 1185 1915 1.616
RICE UNIVERSITY 657 1002 1.525
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY 3773 5317 1.409
UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO 1081 1505 1.392
BROWN UNIVERSITY 1377 1870 1.358
STANFORD UNIVERSITY 1615 2188 1.355
DUKE UNIVERSITY 1615 1637 1.014
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN NEW YORK 1338 1325 0.990
JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY 1079 972 0.901
DARTMOUTH COLLEGE 1135 1020 0.899
WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY IN ST. LOUIS 1264 1065 0.843
UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA 2410 1918 0.796
NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY 1948 1525 0.783
TUFTS UNIVERSITY 1156 841 0.728
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA-LOS ANGELES 4091 2941 0.719
CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY 1318 921 0.699
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN-ANN ARBOR 5476 3672 0.671
UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA-MAIN CAMPUS 2975 1973 0.663
WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY 959 581 0.606
UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME 2036 1185 0.582
GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY 1482 858 0.579
EMORY UNIVERSITY 1555 796 0.512
VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY 1556 753 0.484
UNIV. OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL 3682 1757 0.477
UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA 2776 843 0.304</p>
<p>45 Percenter-
The only data I could get for Cornell about earned doctorates was for the endowed colleges only, not the NYS statutory colleges.</p>
<p>Why not divide your figures by 12 so they are % of a typical class that gets a PhD? Seeing the number 1.355 for Stanford doesn't mean anything to anyone. Seeing 11.29% of Stanford grads go on to get a PhD does.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have no intention of getting a PhD. I don't think getting a PhD should be a useful measure of the excellence of a school</p>
<p>There are people in this world who do things, and then there are people who write PhD dissertations about those people who did things. I'd rather be one of the doers than one of the people compiling his footnotes.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would generally agree with the first statement, although it does give an indication of the intellectualism and atmosphere on campus. </p>
<p>I don't agree with your second statement at all. Some of the highest level thinking in relation to inventions and research are done by people getting and having already gotten a PhD; not to mention the teaching and inspiring of future generations of inventors. If this is what you think PhDs are all about, the world is probably better off with you at Penn without one.</p>
<p>I was actually interested in an undergrad school that created a lot of future-PhDs since I knew I wanted to get one after I finished undergrad. It was nice to be in classes with a lot of other people motivated to do extra research and didn't want to get just enough understanding of the material to pass the class but to really understand the fundamentals of what was going on.</p>
<p>Liberal Arts Colleges</p>
<p>school, number of freshmen 2001, number of bachelors graduates who went on for PhD 1995-2006</p>
<p>SWARTHMORE COLLEGE 381 892 2.341
HARVEY MUDD COLLEGE 174 398 2.287
OBERLIN COLLEGE 684 1304 1.906
CARLETON COLLEGE 516 925 1.793
REED COLLEGE 352 601 1.707
GRINNELL COLLEGE 358 577 1.612
HAVERFORD COLLEGE 296 457 1.544
BRYN MAWR COLLEGE 338 519 1.536
WILLIAMS COLLEGE 520 762 1.465
AMHERST COLLEGE 430 627 1.458
POMONA COLLEGE 393 573 1.458
WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY 722 967 1.339
WELLESLEY COLLEGE 578 712 1.232
SMITH COLLEGE 660 751 1.138
EARLHAM COLLEGE 267 278 1.041
MOUNT HOLYOKE COLLEGE 487 507 1.041
BARNARD COLLEGE 533 542 1.017
KALAMAZOO COLLEGE 341 338 0.991
SAINT OLAF COLLEGE 745 698 0.937
LAWRENCE UNIVERSITY 311 287 0.923
VASSAR COLLEGE 695 631 0.908
MACALESTER COLLEGE 505 456 0.903
BOWDOIN COLLEGE 452 396 0.876
OCCIDENTAL COLLEGE 457 388 0.849
MIDDLEBURY COLLEGE 511 420 0.822
WHEATON COLLEGE - ILLINOIS 574 466 0.812
BELOIT COLLEGE 309 250 0.809
COLORADO COLLEGE 479 376 0.785
FRANKLIN AND MARSHALL COLLEGE 511 394 0.771
DAVIDSON COLLEGE 465 341 0.733
WHITMAN COLLEGE 362 262 0.724
KENYON COLLEGE 425 298 0.701
COLLEGE OF THE HOLY CROSS 532 372 0.699
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS COLLEGE 500 342 0.684
ALLEGHENY COLLEGE 486 325 0.669
COLBY COLLEGE 488 318 0.652
HAMILTON COLLEGE 465 302 0.649
BATES COLLEGE 582 374 0.643
SPELMAN COLLEGE 533 334 0.627
FURMAN UNIVERSITY 734 456 0.621
COLGATE UNIVERSITY 740 455 0.615
CONNECTICUT COLLEGE 472 290 0.614
TRINITY COLLEGE 493 284 0.576
BUCKNELL UNIVERSITY 913 510 0.559
COLLEGE OF WOOSTER 691 385 0.557
LAFAYETTE COLLEGE 576 257 0.446
HOPE COLLEGE 763 332 0.435
DEPAUW UNIVERSITY 620 268 0.432
UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND 765 322 0.421</p>
<p>"I have no intention of getting a PhD."</p>
<p>Then you likely won't be doing certain kinds of research, like the well-worn "finding a cure for cancer" or "discovering the nature of matter."</p>
<p>"I don't think getting a PhD should be a useful measure of the excellence of a school"</p>
<p>It is not. Lists like these are useful for identifying schools that produce future PhD recipients at high rates, for people who do care about such things.</p>
<p>"There are people in this world who do things, and then there are people who write PhD dissertations about those people who did things. I'd rather be one of the doers than one of the people compiling his footnotes."</p>
<p>You could say that there are people who do research (and teach at colleges), and people who do other things. Some humanities PhDs may indeed be written about (mostly dead) people who did other things.</p>
<p>Yes, gellino and vossron are right.</p>
<p>I should probably draw a line of distinction between PhDs who push the envelope of medicine forward, and PhDs in women's studies and its similarly unproductive ilk... :)</p>
<p>Now if you could break down how many students of the schools get PhDs in useful fields vs. nonsense fields, that would be cool.</p>
<p>
[quote]
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY 214 881 4.117
MASSACHUSETTS INST. OF TECHNOLOGY 1027 2408 2.345
CORNELL UNIVERSITY-ENDOWED COLLEGE 1950 3616 1.854
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I imagine most of these students are in "useful" fields.</p>
<p>Yes, but what about Smith and Reed? ;)</p>
<p>PhD production means a great deal. Part of the meaning is clear: it reflects the ability of the student body to pursue advanced work and it reflects the ability of the faculty to prepare students for advanced work. Beyond that, differences in PhD production might be due to the blend of majors offered. For some majors the PhD is not the ultimate, terminal degree. Engineers can make a good living with a masters degree, for example. Differences in PhD production might also be due to differences in campus "culture?". Some campuses are more intellectual; others are more career-oriented, pre-professional, pragmatic. </p>
<p>Value-judgements about the relative merits of PhDs in different fields are just that: value judgements. Our culture is enriched by scholarship in all disciplines.</p>
<p>This isn't exactly what you want, but this page REED</a> COLLEGE PHD PRODUCTIVITY shows the fields in which Reed was in the top ten in the country for the years measured. Included are the schools rounding out the top ten in each of those fields.</p>
<p>^^Regarding the Reed PhD production web page. It is obviously adjusted for the size of the school. But is it adjusted for the size of the major? Example, are biology PhDs adjusted for the size of the biology program at the school?</p>
<p>They might be adjusting for the overall size of the undergraduate student body which gives LACs an advantage. Universities have programs in fields like communications, nursing, engineering, agriculture, and so on.</p>
<p>I am not saying that LACs don't produce graduates capable of original scholarship. They are very good at that. But the Reed data might exaggerate the LAC PhD productivity.</p>
<p>The data for all the schools are for total bachelor's graduates, regardless of major. I agree that LACs have an advantage due to their nature.</p>