Phone Calls?

<p>These colleges make money off kids (and parents) trying to get a leg up. MPulse, CMU pre college, OCU has one, etc. etc. Is it training or taking advantage of the student/parent trying to give themselves a leg up by putting them in front of a school’s team. Of course it is just training, because I have heard many students who went through these summer programs thinking that it would help them get in and it doesn’t. Many could say the same for Mary Anna’s program. Does she get everyone of her students into the school of their dreams? Of course not.</p>

<p>@ActingDad, unfortunately, this situation would never come close money-wise to college basketball. That is exactly my point. We are not even talking about thousands of dollars, we are talking about hundreds of dollars.</p>

<p>There is a saying in the professional theatre industry - “If you don’t have a conflict of interest, get one.” </p>

<p>It means you probably aren’t networking enough or haven’t invested in one of your competitor’s shows. It is difficult to operate in the theatre world without a conflict and this IS something I know a lot about. </p>

<p>The theatre industry is very small and networking is very important. I understood that inherently about the college musical theatre “industry” and I was not a part of it, although I knew a couple of people. I needed more information AND training for my son. Mary Anna provided a road map for us, more than anything. </p>

<p>Optics. Perhaps. Again we are only talking about a few hundred bucks here that is being made. So I think this uproar is a whole lot of bologna.</p>

<p>Tbh no one will say ABSOLUTELY NO WAY SEE A COACH, but no school really wants it because it leads to false advertisement, and that’s why the audition process has gotten longer and they “work” with you more. They will never say you “CAN’T” because a lot of their own alumni make a living coaching and it would be catastrophic to a huge market. Just think about it for a sec. In the end these guys are smarter than the coaches to begin with since they trained them. Believe me when I say they will read through the B.S.</p>

<p>The only thing coaching will do is lead to confidence in the auditioner nothing more. The auditors read through it very fast and can tell whether something was directed or something was made visceral to the student. It’s something my Father has to be very honest with his students when coaching, that he can’t spoon feed them the answers and the acceptance, they still have to put in the work. It’s more like a TA then a Teacher per say.</p>

<p>Grayhairedman is absolutely correct with the “Road Map”. Any somewhat okay and up coach will coach that way. They aren’t the one’s auditioning after all.</p>

<p>ActingDad, I agree with you. It’s the optics of the situation, regardless of whether or not anything untoward is happening. This topic comes up every year, with this coach and this school. </p>

<p>In any case, hugs to those kids who were hoping for a call and didn’t get one from CMU. In the long run, and after a few days of grieving, it may be for the best. Those who did get the calls now have to come up with a way to pay the ~$60,000+/yr costs.</p>

<p>And also Grayhairedman if your son is Jake, I’ve heard of him through the grape-vine all the way to NYC. I hear he is phenomenal, forget these people you should be very proud even if your son isn’t Jake.</p>

<p>I am a student of Mary Anna “Moo” - took lessons from her, meet with her during Unifieds in fact. (She is an absolutely fantastic coach in my opinion.) I auditioned for Carnegie Mellon and did not get in. (I was fortunate enough to be admitted to OCU, however!)</p>

<p>Note, I don’t understand how working with a coach leads to “false advertisement”. A good coach will look at you and find your acting weaknesses and strengths, and work them. Hard. It’s what actors do - master classes, coaching. Agents and casting directors in New York URGE professionals to do this, to WORK ON YOUR CRAFT. </p>

<p>But really, it has nothing to do with Moo or master classes and really all to do with each individual school, what/who they want, and what they see in every student. Maybe they see the raw natural talent of a student who has had no coaching, or like the polish/refinement of a student who has been coached. Fact is, as many “coached” students that have been accepted, dozens of un-coached students have been accepted.</p>

<p>Actually I truly believe, regardless of all I said above, if there is something the school sees in a student that they want/need they WILL pursue that. As well as the fact that each student will follow his/her own path. One of my favorite quotes is perfect for auditioners and its helped me: </p>

<p>"You may want something, work hard to achieve it, and in your process achieve something even greater than your original goal. So, don’t get married to what you imagine is the result of your pursuit, just be involved in the pursuit. </p>

<p>Besides, you already have a job. Your job is to be a joyful artist. No one can take that away from you." ~ Jack Plotnick</p>

<p>Wow – I must jump in here. I hope I don’t come across as angry but I must say – There is absolutely nothing inappropriate about Barbara and Gary offering master classes with Moo or anyone else. Are you aware they and others also do master classes at a variety of other places throughout the year? What about Artsbridge? Broadway Theater Project? Performing Arts Project? Broadway Dreams? MTCA? All of these places offer master classes with top faculty from all of the major players in the MT and Acting worlds. Moo by no means has a monopoly on offering master classes. Nor are Barbara and Gary the only faculty from major schools who do this. Furthermore, Moo’s classes are open to the public. All you have to do is sign up. If you are unable to participate due to location, finances or whatever, so be it. But do not say it is because the opportunity is not available to you. It is if you seek it out. These classes are advertised on websites, Facebook pages, college confidential – all sorts of places. And again, are offered through a variety of coaches, camps and schools. The schools and faculty want to meet the kids who are interested in this field and the students want to learn more about the faculty and the schools and prepare themselves as best as they can for what we all know if a very challenging audition process. For those who are able to participate in master classes, we should be happy for them. We personally did not do a master class with Barbara and Gary, but from what I understand it was an experience that will last a lifetime for those students who did get to participate, whether they ultimately were accepted to CMU or not – and the vast majority of them did not get in. Remember – being in a master class is no guarantee by a long shot that you’ll have an advantage when it comes time to audition. And in fact, if you don’t respond well during your master class I guess it could even hurt you. So you are taking a chance. But if you have a child who gets nervous or who is uneasy about the whole audition process, it could be a great benefit to a student to have already met someone who they are going to be auditioning for and help the nerves go away. For anyone to suggest that it is inappropriate on the part of CMU or Moo or anyone else who happens to offer a master class – that is just wrong. Really to me it sounds like sour grapes. Again, I will say, these classes are open for anyone who wants to participate. If you were unaware, that is not CMU’s fault or Moo’s fault. The opportunity was there for the taking. Also – I am not sure why people find fault in coaching at all. It is no different than taking voice lessons, dance lessons or acting lessons which almost all of the kids pursuing this dream have done at some point. A coach just helps you navigate the unknown world of auditioning for these programs. Would it sound better if we called them audition teachers instead of coaches? All they can do is help prepare your child for the audition process. But it is your student who has to make it happen for themselves in that audition room. And no number of master classes, $ spent on coaching, or anything else is going to matter at that point. If they have what the school needs that year they’re in, if they don’t, they’re out. Don’t blame CMU, Moo, the availability of coaches or anything else. And don’t blame the students who have sought out this coaching and training to prepare themselves for this very competitive field. These opportunities are out there if you seek them out. And if you don’t want to pay for personal coaching, by all means at least purchase MaryAnna’s book called “I Got In”. For about $15 you can get all of the benefit of her years of expertise in this field and that book is available to any and all. I highly recommend it.
I don’t mean to come across too strongly – I just feel like Moo and CMU are being unjustly accused of doing something inappropriate and that is just not fair to either of them. I promise you I do feel badly for those who were waiting on a call from CMU and didn’t get one. We were part of that group ourselves so I truly get it. But there is another program that our child is destined for and she will learn and be happy there. I hope you all find the perfect place for your son or daughter. It is nerve-wracking, stressful process for us all. I wish you all the best.</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone is saying anything negative about getting one’s child coaching to prepare for college auditions. I strongly recommend that applicants get help with their song and monologue prep by someone who is familiar and skilled in that area. </p>

<p>I don’t see anything wrong with master classes either, though my kid never got to do these and it seems most available to those who work with particular coaches and of course, it costs money to fly to these locations if not in the area. But hey, more face time in front of college MT department heads! </p>

<p>I do think that even if nothing is improper about it, that it can give a feeling of that when certain private coaches have a “connection” with certain college department heads and discuss their students with them. And what some are not mentioning (seems like people are focusing on coaching and master classes which I happen to think are fine), is that a coach gets to hold college auditions for their students with several colleges and I am surprised that colleges do that. But then again, if a college wants you, they will take you no matter where and under what circumstances they come across you. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that lots of lots of kids get accepted who don’t work with coaches who have any sort of “connection” to particular schools, but simply get coached by someone local and so on. </p>

<p>I don’t fault a single parent here. We all want to give our kids preparation and opportunities!</p>

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<p>ActingDad said it well. It is simply not a good practice to embark in an enterprise that continually provokes raised eyebrows and suggests an appearance of impropriety. This is not to cast aspersions on those of you who studied with “Moo” (is that really what she calls herself?) or even on “Moo” herself, as she is clearly an intelligent entrepreneur with a business to run. </p>

<p>Regardless of how difficult it is to make a living as an actor, the issue here is that a nonprofit educational institution allows its admissions staff to continue this practice. When these adjudicators retire from their role in admissions, they should be free to conduct paid masterclasses for for-profit enterprises and give the benefit of their wisdom to clients. And while they’re at it, write a best-selling novel and screenplay about theater admissions… maybe our kids can star in the movie. </p>

<p>Until then, they will continue to raise eyebrows and face these accusations.</p>

<p>I have to jump in… Moo is a wonderful person and coach who really cares about her students and is truly engaged in the process. We should applaud those kids who got into CMU programs. Their acceptance is by far more of a testament to their dedication, love of the craft, and extraordinary talent than any other factors. The Moo-crew kids are super talented in their own right, and the acceptances likely would have come with or without the coach. I don’t see impropriety… it’s great that MT families have people like Moo, Barbara, Kaitlin, the Michigan guy, et. al who are willing to do these master classes (which must be inconvenient) so we have these opportunities to become more informed. CMU is not the holy grail, there are several really outstanding programs out there and list is growing. e.g. Watch out for Rider for one.</p>

<p>I’m going to go find a Powerball coach now who has the inside track on the numbers…</p>

<p>I happen to not think this is specific to CMU and there are a handful of colleges participating in private auditions via certain private coaches and so on. Not just CMU. So, it really shouldn’t be on the CMU forum per se.</p>

<p>We didn’t use a coach (although we did consult Mary Anna Dennard’s book, which has a lot of useful information), so I don’t have a horse in this particular race. I was surprised in the fall to see the debate on CC about the “private” auditions, and I asked my son what he thought about it, as I couldn’t figure out whether it was no-big-deal-standard-procedure or somehow ethically murky. What hit me eventually was that, as a teacher in a school where a lot of college athletic recruiting goes on, I’m very aware of all of the rules and regulations regarding when and in what circumstances college coaches can be in contact with high-school players. These seem like potentially analagous situations, but the performing arts have no NCAA-type organization overseeing the process. Strictly speaking, I can’t see anything wrong with the private auditions, but in my gut, it makes me a little uneasy. </p>

<p>Only one of my son’s schools participates in “Moonifieds,” and he was accepted there (and will be attending), so obviously he was not affected by the lack of coaching or special audition circumstances. I think in the end it genuinely boils down to whether the school is the right fit and whether your son or daughter has worked hard to present themselves well at auditions. If he had been aiming for musical theater, we might have sought coaching, just because of the breadth of the skill set required. But it is interesting to consider whether there should be some wider conversation among college programs about attending privately held auditions, and perhaps they should make it clear on their websites that they do this? Not trying to provoke debate but rather to suggest a way to make things more transparent in the future.</p>

<p>Transparency, huh? What a concept!</p>

<p>Probably a moot, minor point but something for future applicants and their parents to consider. Most high school drama and/or chorus teachers, guidance counselors, dance studio teachers, community choir directors, even some directors of small community theaters, do NOT have the slightest idea(s) about the complexity of applying to a college-level auditioned BFA/BA MT or Acting program. </p>

<p>Most don’t understand the timelines, audition schedules or the fact that you are asking them to prepare 12-15+ transcript reports/recommendations. How many of our Ss and Ds got that “why is there a cat sitting on your head” look when they showed up at the counselor’s office with that many requests?! They are generally not a good source of info for this whole dramatic process. </p>

<p>Do many of them know there are resources out there to help these kids, such as a coach, summer program, etc…? Heck no! The expectation should be that these folks are NOT going to suggest or encourage a student to seek coaching. Folks who are surprised that no one ever mentioned this to their applicant should not be surprised. I am not sure many get this advice/guidance from school/small community performing arts staff members.</p>

<p>CC by far is the most comprehensive resource for students pursuing these performance arts majors. You stumble across CC when you stumble across it. </p>

<p>Like any other post-high school planning, there is a certain amount of research and preparation that should take place ahead of time. Different people choose to start at different times and an applicant gets an outcome (good, bad, acceptable or not) depending on when they start and how much effort is applied. </p>

<p>If an applicant walks into this process without doing necessary research and prep they most likely won’t have a leg up (literally for those MT majors) or at least not as high up as others who have done more research and prep. This is true of most any college program. </p>

<p>What most guidance counselors do suggest is that students start the planning process early. At our high school they start talking about college planning during Freshman year. Some kids jump on board right away and think about a plan others wait until December of their Senior year. Are they going to have different results and feelings about their outcomes? Most likely.</p>

<p>Times3, I agree with a lot of what you wrote. Yes, it would be nice if colleges openly list on their sites where they are holding auditions as most list the campus auditions and if they participate, Unified auditions, or other cities where they hold auditions. The “private” auditions through private audition coaches are not openly listed by the programs. I’m not sure why this isn’t publicized.</p>

<p>I have to chime in with gigrighta, actingdad, and glassharmonica… My D is planning to audition for theater programs next year and has a close friend who is in the thick of all this now. I’ve been perusing CC to try to get my head around what may be in store for us over the next year. </p>

<p>With the competition and attention so great, I guess I assumed there would be something of a firewall between coaches and the audition panels. </p>

<p>Nobody has suggested that there is anything shady about Moo or coaching or helping your kid to be as prepared as possible, and master classes are a common form of training in many performance fields. But while the power of “who you know” may be a fact of life in showbiz, CMU is a highly regarded ACADEMIC institution, not a Hollywood studio. Shouldn’t college faculty (and administrations for that matter) want to avoid the impression of being cozy with coaches as a matter of academic integrity if nothing else? And endorsing coaches? Yikes. That’s obviously in the coaches’ interest, but it is not in college/university’s.</p>

<p>I’m sure all those involved in this practice are good people responding generously to the huge demand for their expertise, but the fact is it doesn’t look good when there’s an impression the deck is stacked in favor of those who can afford the most access. Who needs that cloud over a program known for its quality and integrity?</p>

<p>It is interesting for me to observe this phenomena being discussed between private audition coaches and MT/Acting Dept. heads at colleges who are “connected” in some capacity. I say this not only as a parent, but as an independent college counselor (which is NOT an audition coach). The creedo for independent college counselors is to have NO contact with college admissions offices/officers. Advising a student on their college selection and admissions process is meant to be behind the scenes. If anything, some colleges frown upon the use of private college counselors. Private college counselors should not be in contact with college admissions personnel. So, this is in contrast to what I am observing about some private audition coaches being in direct contact with BFA program department heads and discussing their students and holding auditions for their students, etc. Private college counselors stay out of that entirely. i will add that independent college consultants (based on outlined “good practices”) are supposed to avoid any conflicts of interest or the appearance of such conflicts.</p>

<p>I think the decisions that were made were likely purely about the talent and fit of the kids; all power to them and their parents. However, this practice sure doesn’t pass the smell test. In the private sector, I sometimes have to run things like this past my company’s “conflicts committee” – I can guarantee you this sort of conflict would not be allowed. When I get a speaker’s fee or paid for writing that is related to my field, I either pass on the fee or ask that it be sent directly to a charity supported by both me and my employer (for the small amounts, my HR person and I agreed it wasn’t worth the time to figure out how to pay the money to the firm). I understand that these workshops are done during the summer, but the whole connection with private auditions, etc, is really, really not appropriate. I looked on Dennard’s website - endorsement by Barbara driving business to Dennard who drives business to Barbara through workshops – a little to cozy for ethical comfort, whether it is commonplace or not.</p>