Plan B: Skip College (New York Times)

Parents Forum
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<p>Plan</a> B - Skip College - NYTimes.com </p>

<p>"The idea that four years of higher education will translate into a better job, higher earnings and a happier life — a refrain sure to be repeated this month at graduation ceremonies across the country — has been pounded into the heads of schoolchildren, parents and educators. But there’s an underside to that conventional wisdom. Perhaps no more than half of those who began a four-year bachelor’s degree program in the fall of 2006 will get that degree within six years, according to the latest projections from the Department of Education."</p>

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<p>I hate this man.</p>

<p>Correlation is not causation.
Correlation is not causation.
Correlation is not causation.</p>

<p>How many B.A.s does it take to understand this?</p>

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<p>[The</a> College Dropouts Hall of Fame: Famous college dropouts, successful college dropouts, and rich college dropouts](<a href=“http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/nogo.htm]The”>http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/nogo.htm)
Whoo! (They’re still in the process of figuring out the other 19 reasons why you should not go to college. Hmm… they’ve reached a conclusion before they’ve figured out all their supportive evidence. HA!)</p>

<p>EDIT</p>

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<p>Yeah thats just like telling people in the late 1800s or early 1900s that they too can be Carnegie or JP Morgan one day.</p>

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<p>I think I found that list of the fastest growing jobs, where most don’t require a college degree:</p>

<p>[Occupations</a> with the largest job growth](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_104.htm]Occupations”>http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_104.htm)</p>

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<p>LOL, that list is a pretty good incentive to go to college: many of those jobs don’t pay a living wage.</p>

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<p>Fast Food jobs are on that list, I bet everyone wants to grow up to be a McD employee!</p>

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<p>Hey, don’t make such a demeaning comment about McDonald’s! I find that offense. Do you not remember that advertisement about the CEO of McD that originally started behind the counter and worked her way up?? Do not question…</p>

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<p>Thats one out of how many?</p>

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<p>On the other hand, I dislike it when people abuse the phrase “correlation is not causation.” It’s not, and it’s valid to recognize that - but the value of a college education contributing to better health (not sure about the other two because that’s not my area) has been recognized to contribute to better health regardless of one’s socioeconomic background and other factors that might confound the relationship. And I mean, one could argue that people with better overall health go to go college (i.e. that health causes college and not the other way around), but somehow that doesn’t make very much sense. You have a time-ordered relationship here, too, which helps lend credence to the college-causes-health explanation.</p>

<p>Most McDonald’s cashiers are NOT going to work their way up. The problem is just as pervasive here; the media gives you a few success stories of people who do not have college degrees and expects people to then make the fallacy that because they did it, it must be pretty common. I do think it’s very possible to have a successful life without a college degree - but chances are you’re still going to need a skill or job training. The average person is not going to find success (by “success” I simply mean a comfortable living wage) simply by working in retail.</p>

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<p>

That’s my point. Also shown by my initial posting of the absurd website advocating against college education.</p>

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<p>Couldn’t agree more with this concept. The average 4 year degree has little value and many would be far better off with a trade and no loans to repay.</p>

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<p>Yes! Think about it, if you go straight from high school and find a ~$15/hour job, you could be bringing home about 30k a year (plus taxes). Over 4 years, that’s 120k!!! Whereas the college graduate, after 4 years, could be incurring a loss of 50-60k. That’s a difference of about 200k! That’s a lambo man!</p>

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<p>A very timely article for me. I’m already wondering if S2, now in eighth grade, is college material. He’s bright but just not interested in school and I’m not inclined to waste his time and our money if he’s really better off elsewhere.</p>

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<p>footballmom, he should go to college (unless by your username, you’re inferring that he’s the next football prodigy). He’s only in 8th grade, he’ll meet his day of maturation soon enough. I didn’t mature academically until near the middle/end of my junior year in HS.</p>

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<p>Why don’t you go to trade school and get your “lambo” then if it’s such an obvious choice?</p>

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<p>^ Come again?</p>

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<p>Footballmom - he’s 13 (maybe 14). A lot of 13-year-olds, especially 13-year-old boys, are not interested in school - they’ve got other developmental activities to worry about (puberty). A lot will happen between now and senior year of high school.</p>

<p>Yes! Think about it, if you go straight from high school and find a ~$15/hour job, you could be bringing home about 30k a year (plus taxes). Over 4 years, that’s 120k!!! Whereas the college graduate, after 4 years, could be incurring a loss of 50-60k. That’s a difference of about 200k! That’s a lambo man!</p>

<p>Assuming that you do find a job that pays $15/hour with a high school diploma (and after taxes that’s more like $25,000 a year, not the full $30K), over four years, yes it would be about $100,000. Assuming that the average college graduate incurs debt of only around $30K total for a bachelor’s degree, initially yes, the bachelor’s degree recipient has a loss of $130,000. However, considering that salary research shows over a lifetime bachelor’s degree recipients make on average $1 million more during a working lifetime (median personal income data supports that finding - and may make more, since the service and information jobs you can work with a bachelor’s degree may allow you to work longer than the more physical labor of vo/tech jobs), after that time the bachelor’s degree recipient is up over $850,000 (factoring in interest). Even if a person unwisely borrowed $100,000 for an undergraduate education, plus interest, paid over 25 years…that’s still an almost $700,000 gain over a working lifetime.</p>

<p>Not to mention that college graduates also have more wealth, are more likely to report better health, and have a range of other protective factors associated with earning that degree. And your social security benefits after age 65 are based upon what you made when you worked.</p>

<p>College is not for everyone, and I think that many people with careful career planning can be very successful without a degree. In fact, I think each high school senior should carefully consider the costs and benefits of attending college versus going into a lucrative and enjoyable technical career. On the other hand, though, I don’t want people to delude themselves about the cost-versus-benefit of college degrees - for the average person who balances debt wisely, the benefits are going to outweigh the costs.</p>

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<p>Are you really arguing this? Does no one understand the point of sarcasm.</p>

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<p>Considering that one cannot hear the tone of a voice over the Internet, and considering that the original point of the post was to discuss the merits of skipping college, I don’t think anyone was wrong to assume that you were not being sarcastic. Perhaps you should make an effort to communicate your intentions more clearly?</p>