<p>"For those of you in this thread who bridle at the notion that “not everybody should goto college, and encouraging them to go may be economically hazardous and immoral” I think it’s important to remember that we aren’t talking about you; we’re talking about the bottom 40-50 percent of high school grads, most of whom would be better served by attending community college or vocational school. "</p>
<p>I guess maybe I am not seeing the huge push on the bottom half of high school grads to attend 4 year colleges. I am seeing the leaders at the national level suggesting that everyone needs post HS training, which can include Community college and/or other vocational training. But this “not everyone needs a 4 year degree” seems like its arguing with a straw man. </p>
<p>I am curious which 4 year schools have the most kids who do not graduate in 6 years. Looking at specifics, it might be more possible to discuss to what extent that is driven by “the wrong kids going to 4 year schools” or other factors. And what it was that was driving the kids to go to those schools.</p>
<p>"Do I think that having 100 or so electricians statewide formally trained in green energy technologies each year will exceed demand? No, I do not…I think it is a larger industry than that and has many residential, commercial, and industrial applications. But not all of them will choose to specialize in that area anyway, and it’s not as if they will be unemployable! "</p>
<p>I do not know if it will stop at 100 or so, if it seems like a good idea across the state. And I did not mean exceed demand in the sense that folks will become unemployable. I meant that premiums on such individuals, to the extent that they are earning more than graduates with a 4 year degree in engineering, may not be sustainable. </p>
<p>Again, given the context, I thought this was about becoming an electrician being a superior choice to getting a BS in engineering from a 4 yr state school. Not whether becoming an electrician is a better idea than working in retail, or whether people who are already electricians should get additional training.</p>
I am curious as to which schools have a majority of students graduating in more than 5 years as well. And whether this ballpark statistic is true for the entire nation, as well.</p>
<p>Nationwide, roughly 60% of high school students enroll in 4-year colleges. Roughly 60%, again nationwide, of those students will actually earn a BS within 6 years. For college graduates in their 20s, roughly 60% are doing college level jobs. Some of those engineering graduates from state schools will end up working in retail. The end result is that about 1 in 3 high school students that attends a 4 year college will see a significant return on their investment.</p>
<p>It depends on major and number of them offering co-op programs, and if school happens to have good number of certain majors, it will influence stats. For example, it is very normal for Engineering to take 5 years and in co-op, 6 years. Some schools have very selective programs with various majors all requiring co-op. It does not mean, that kids are in school 100% of time, so technically, it is not 5 years, but to get a degree, you got to be there for 5 years, doing 1 quarter at work, another at school, with only one summer off after freshman year. So, statistics above will be very skewed, unless you study all programs very clsely at each school.</p>
<p>The magazine article I read actually referred to high school grads, not high school students. So the article, if accurate, actually says that 60% of people who graduate high school will at some point enroll in a 4 year college.</p>
<p>This says 70% of 2009 hs grads will attend college, but if I read it correctly that includes 2 year colleges. And it attributes the spike to high unemployment among current HS grads.</p>
<p>Of the high schoolers who graduate, only 60% will attend a 4-year college? Are you sure, that kind of changes the game here a bit.</p>
<p>On an opposing stance, you should notice that it does make a bit of sense, as the other <40% could have simply went to a baccalaureate 2-year college (makes sense, many do), some others going to a trade school, and then the remaining few not having gone at all. However, my personal opinion, too many of those that go to a local college end up transferring out to a 4-year college anyway, which makes that 60% seem too low for me to accept without a link.</p>
<p>lots of HS grads dont go to any college, including 2 years. I still think 60% of HS grads going to 4 year colleges is an overestimate - given WSJ reports 70% of class of '09 going to college period, including Comm Colleges. </p>
<p>OTOH I don’t know how many end up in college later on - without a link to the article quoted, its difficult to be precise about what they are measuring.</p>
<p>The magazine article requires a subscription, so let’s use the WSJ + census numbers.
[School</a> Enrollment: October 2008 - Detailed Tables](<a href=“http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/school/cps2008.html]School”>http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/school/cps2008.html)
61% of 15-19 year olds in their 1rst year of college are attending a 4 year school. Thus, 70%(WSJ number)*61%(census number) shows that 42% of high school seniors will go straight to a 4 year college. If 30% of the remainder eventually go to a 4-year school, then the lifetime total is about 60%. Many people enter a community college with the plan to transfer.</p>
<p>I still think most people who enroll in a 4-year school either a) will not graduate or b)
will not get a college level job, usually due to low gpa.</p>
<p>The federal Department of Education surely has statistics on how many young people graduate from high school, and how many go on to college, and how many eventually graduate from college. That would be the primary source for anyone else’s reporting on the issue.</p>
<p>I looked at the link you posted, and find these numbers (in thousands) in the table labeled Table 5:
1542 students age 15-19 enrolled in 4 year colleges as freshmen, 971 students enrolled in 2-year colleges as freshmen. This calculates out to 62% of first-year college students in this age group are entering a 4-year college.</p>
<p>^^
That clear thinking requires one to distinguish between an absolute number interpreted subjectively (“many”), and a ratio. The more I read CC, the more I cannot escape the impression that engineering is going through a dumbing down year by year, just like the rest of American education.</p>
<p>And so the ratio of students transferring into a 4-year college from a community college to those who don’t is like that of those dreamers who become an astronaut to those who don’t? As well, the relative difficulty in transferring from a community college to a 4-year college is similar to that of turning the dream of becoming an astronaut into reality?
Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
Perhaps you fall into this category. </p>
<p>I made no assumptions in my original post, and my only (being honest) point in calling that out was that it was not the best of analogies. When I wrote that post, I actually considered accounting for a very likely “many vs. ratio” argument but I decided not to. Though it was needless to say (it was quite an obvious analysis), I should have.</p>