Planning a college list - Yale, Stanford, Rice, Carnegie...

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hey guys
Right now I'm a junior looking to apply as an international student to a U.S. university. I want to go to a school with strong programs in both the sciences (I still have no idea which branch I want to go into - I'm taking AP Physics B at school right now and I'm in love with it, and I took an honors course in Chemistry last year and I enjoyed that as well) and the arts. I know the two seem contradictory, but they are my favorite subjects and have been for quite a while.
I'd also like to go to a school where it's undergrad-focused and has good weather. :)
My list so far comprises of:
Yale (need-blind to international! would I be stupid to go to this school to do a science major? and does it matter that I am not going to be doing a biology major, instead probably a physics or chem major?)
Stanford
Rice (more affordable than most, strong in both the sciences and architecture)
Carnegie Mellon (strong in sciences & architecture)
Cooper Union (free for engineering/architectural majors)</p>

<p>As for my academic performance, my grades have all been A's except a B in first semester AP English Language this year. I've taken honors courses in Bio, Chem, and Math, and AP World History (5 on the exam). My courseload this year includes AP Drawing, AP Calc AB, AP Physics B, and AP Lang. I scored a 213 on the PSAT this past October. My school doesn't rank but I'm pretty sure I'm in the top 5%.</p>

<p>SO: please help me add/edit my college list! I'd like to get an early start on the college admissions process and I'd really appreciate your help on this :) Reaches, matches, safeties - all colleges are welcome. I'd like to start with a variety and then narrow it down.</p>

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<p>Cooper Union is not free. It waives tuition, which is not at all the same thing. You still have to pay for housing, food, books, etc., which amount to about $19,000 per year.</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins, Duke, Emory, and Vanderbilt are other strong science universities with good weather, but I don’t know how generous they are toward international students. Miami, Tulane, and Wake Forest as matches, maybe.</p>

<p>

I hate it when people ask things like this, because it shows they have done no research of any sort into the school.</p>

<p>Yale has a top 10 program in biology, a top 10 program in physics, a top 10 program in math, a top 10 program in geology, and a top 15 program in chemistry. By what stretch of the imagination is it “stupid” to go to Yale for the sciences? It’s certainly much stronger than Carnegie Mellon or Rice.</p>

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<p>Hippo, What’s your source for Yale’s rankings? It’s obviously a top school but have never seen those programs rated.</p>

<p>Blue, all the schools you list are highly selective and would be reaches. What kind of college costs can you afford?</p>

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<p>

I was citing US News, but the NRC rankings are about the same.</p>

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<p>If you’re looking at Yale and Stanford, I’d consider adding Princeton and Harvard to that list as well. Both are strong with the arts, arguably provide a more rigorous physics/chemistry education than Yale (though the difference at the undergraduate level may not be major), and are also need-blind to undergraduates. And of the two, Princeton, in particular, is known for its undergrad focus. PM me if I can help answer your questions.</p>

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<p>@hippo: I’m talking about Yale’s science program as compared to schools like Stanford and Cornell (engineering). As in, if I knew that I wanted to do a science major, should I instead opt for those schools whose science programs are rated higher? Or do you think it doesn’t make a difference? I added Carnegie and Rice because although they are still selective, they are much less selective than Yale and still have strong science programs (possibly weaker than Yale’s but notice that I said I was welcome to all kinds of schools, ranging from reaches to safeties).
& I was talking about Cooper Union’s tuition, like you said. Sorry if that was not clear. $19,000 is still a lot, but compared to what I’d be spending at other colleges, it’s much less.</p>

<p>@Puddy: I hear that undergrad education at Harvard is not that worthwhile and that the post grad education is far more rewarding?</p>

<p>@Erin’s Dad: My parents and I have a college meeting with my counselor next week and they think it’s best for them to discuss financial aid then…don’t ask me why. But I’m pretty sure my rents’ salaries do not amount to a six-figure sum.</p>

<p>ALSO:
My GPA has been (all unweighted)
9th grade: 4.06, 4.07
10th grade: 4.01, 4.20
11th grade: 4.20</p>

<p>Thanks for all your suggestions, everyone! :)</p>

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<p>Cornell could be a possibility for you; with its’ course diversity, you’re sure to find the classes you want.</p>

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<p>Isn’t UW based on 4.0 scale? how come u get more than 4.0? or is it bcoz u do AP/IB?</p>

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<p>don’t go to Cornell if u want to go to school with good weather.</p>

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<p>@jellyya:
My school - it’s international - calculates GPA a bit differently. </p>

<p>A+ : 4.4
A: 4.0
A- : 3.7
B+ : 3.4
B: 3.0 </p>

<p>and so on…but I’ve only gotten A grades and one B grade so far.
Should’ve mentioned this earlier- thanks for pointing it out!</p>

<p>OH AND:
my tenth grade second sem GPA is actually 4.11 unweighted and 11th grade first sem is 3.857. But weighted, the two are the same (4.20). My school only adds a 0.5 weighting to each AP class you take.</p>

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<p>oh, alright. My school is also international and my school don’t add grade for AP/Honors classes so I just wonder LOL.</p>

<p>You seem like you are also looking colleges that are generous about financial aids and scholarship. Since I’m int’l student planing to study in USA this fall, I think I may help you in some way. I would suggest CUNY Maculay Honors College (recommend City College, Hunter and Baruch), Dickinson College, University of Alabama, and some “Colleges That Change Lives.” These are colleges that I have applied this year so I kinda know these school.</p>

<p>Maculay has free tuition (Hunter also gives free dorm) once you got accepted. Dickinson College is very generous. My alumni got in and has to pay only $14,000+ a year with only $3,000 loans (Total cost is around 50,000). And your stat is much better than him. University of Alabama also give some scholarships & have great honors program. They sometimes even offer OOS students full tuition scholarship but I’m not sure if they will give to int’l as well (at least I think they would let you pay just around $20,000). I applied to one CTCL (Birmingham Southern College), they don’t give much scholarship but I could reduce you total cost to be around $22,000.</p>

<p>Other than this, Louisiana State U is a good yet very cheap university. It’s named as one of the most beautiful universities.</p>

<p>Macaulay could be your mid-low match
Dickinson could be your low match
The rest are your target.</p>

<p>Hope this help! PM me if you have questions!</p>

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<p>William & Mary fits your description very well.</p>

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<p>

Put down the rankings and back away extremely quickly. The quality of undergraduate science programs among the top 100 universities is negligible, let alone the top 10 or 15. You will see absolutely no difference whatsoever between Stanford and Yale. </p>

<p>

I know you say that to everyone, but it hardly applies here.</p>

<p>*Because the College of William & Mary is a publicly-funded state university, financial aid for international students is extremely limited. The W&M Financial Aid Office deals almost exclusively with federal aid programs for U.S. citizens and permanent residents.</p>

<p>Financial aid for international undergraduate students is extremely limited; the Reves Center does not have any grants or scholarship funding available at this time.* </p>

<p>[William</a> & Mary - Financing Your Studies](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/offices/revescenter/issp/admissions/financing/index.php]William”>http://www.wm.edu/offices/revescenter/issp/admissions/financing/index.php)</p>

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<p>If you’ve been on this site for awhile, you may already realize that the top 10 schools, especially those with 10% or under acceptance rates, reject most applicants with stats much higher than yours. I do not write this to insult or depress you, but only to suggest that your stats are a closer match to schools in the USNWR ranking group of about 25-50, than they are for HYPSM. </p>

<p>If I were you, I would be focusing on 5-7 schools where my stats were at the 60% (aka matches), and then a couple where your stats are at the 90% mark (aka Safeties), and a couple where your stats are at about the 25-35% (Reaches).</p>

<p>Here are my suggestions:</p>

<p>Reaches: Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Tufts, USC, Georgetown
Matches: Wake Forest, George Washington, Tulane, Miami, NYU, Boston U
Safeties: Northeastern, SMU, American U</p>

<p>Financial aid is a different story. The Ivies are the most generous, and most others are not generous with Int’l students.<br>
For Merit Aid awards, your stats should be in the top 15%, preferably top 5%, of the entering freshman class of your target school. Your stats might position you well for Merit Aid at the two Safeties I mention (assuming they give Merit to Int’l students).</p>

<p>Good luck. There are about 4000 colleges and universities in the US, and I’m sure you will find one or two within the Top 100 (top 2.5%) that is a great fit for you financially, academically, and socially.</p>

<p>Oh, almost forgot… two Universities in the top 100 that are really inexpensive (<$24k all in) for Out of State (included International) students are the University of Minnesota and SUNY Stony Brook, SUNY Binghamton, or any other SUNY.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>This is an understatement. I wouldn’t say that the difference is “negligible,” especially if the OP is interested in doing advanced (graduate) work in the sciences. A recommendation from an NAS member can really go a long way.</p>

<p>There is definitely a discernible difference in quality between the top 10 or 15 and those outside the top 25 or 30.</p>

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<p>*Financial aid is a different story. The Ivies are the most generous, and most others are not generous with Int’l students. </p>

<p>For Merit Aid awards, your stats should be in the top 15%, preferably top 5%, of the entering freshman class of your target school. </p>

<p>Your stats might position you well for Merit Aid at the two Safeties I mention (assuming they give Merit to Int’l students).
*</p>

<p>*I scored a 213 on the PSAT this past October. *</p>

<p>Until you have some ACT and SAT scores (take both), it will be hard to recommend any match/safety schools if you’ll need financial aid. or scholarships </p>

<p>You need to find out how much your parents can contribute each year. From that you’ll need to target match & safety schools that will give enough merit and/or FA to int’ls that along with your parents contribution you’ll have enough. </p>

<p>As an int’l, you won’t qualify for any federal aid or federal student loans.</p>

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<p>

Depends on your perspective, I suppose. I’m coming from a zoology/ecology background, and most of the impressive programs in the field are at schools most CC posters would sneer at.</p>

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<p>hippo-</p>

<p>OP looking for a school that is undergrad focused, good in sciences and arts, and nice weather. I cant imagine why W&M came to mind?!</p>

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<p>DunninLA & jellyya: thanks so much for your detailed reply :slight_smile: I’ll definitely check out some of those colleges , especially the Colleges that Change Lives since I’ve already done some research on those.</p>

<p>My SAT scores come out on Feb 11 - I will be in Tibet on a school trip at that time, though - and I’ll probably be able to get a much more accurate picture of where I could get in by then.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>

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<p>Oh and a quick question about the PSAT:
My percentile is 99% with a 213…I’m not a US citizen so I know I don’t qualify for a scholarship but IF I WERE, is 213 past the limit for a scholarship? I’ve heard that the international cut off is usually 220 - correct? - so I don’t get how I got into the 99%…</p>