Planning for Next Year's Auditions and Debunking Myths

College Majors Musical Theater Major
141

<p>CCM might not be where all the boys are going grayhairedman I know there are like 30 boys who are going to point park and like 12 girls, just from the facebook group so there are probably a couple. I also heard from a friend a lot of boy accepted they’re BOCO offers over other schools. </p>

<p>I also happen to think recruiting is fair, but can be misleading. I had a school where I think I got about 4 post cards a week between the MT program and the school itself and I think that was a little overkill. However, I will say the list provided on the last page is how it should be and AlexaMT i think you are one of CCU’s greatest assets cause you really get the word out and it is obvious that the students love the program and I think you just do an excellent job recruiting.</p>

142

<p>Theatremomma,</p>

<p>There was a post in this thread that talked about assuming, because of things they were told before the audition process started that their kid would get recruited, chased, and the hard sell. Not merely made to feel a school wanted them in the normal fashion, the way you just described. </p>

<p>The poster noted that it turns out this sort of recruitment happening is a myth and wanted to debunk the concept of recruitment. </p>

<p>This topic made me think it might be helpful before and during the college auditioning and selection process to be a bit self reflective and make sure our ego’s craving for feeling important, better then other people and the need to be chased, loved and recruited is not overshadowing our decision making process.</p>

143

<p>I have to agree with theatremomma, here. There is a HUGE difference between feeling wanted and wanting to be chased in order to feed one’s ego. My D just wanted to feel like a school wanted her, that THEY thought she would be a good fit. As I stated before, she ended up saying yes to the one school who did not send her emails and call. But when she contacted them (e.g., to ask if she could sit in on classes), they made her feel welcome and wanted. It wasn’t an ego booster - it was confirmation that they were a good match. </p>

<p>I don’t think any of us like the hard sell…like Calliene, my D would stop answering her phone when some of the schools called, b/c she felt bad about not yet knowing what to say.</p>

144

<p>This is a really interesting thread.</p>

<p>There’s definitely a difference between feeling wanted and ego gratification (or - from the college’s marketing perspective- the hard sell). But I’m not sure what people mean when they say they want to feel wanted? Isn’t an acceptance the sign that you are wanted, especially in this highly competitive environment? What more do they want? I’m asking seriously, not sarcastically. Obviously, money is also great. But many schools simply don’t have the power/resources to shower you with merit money, and those that do may or may not be ‘the top.’ I mean, of course, money is really important, but to me, that’s the tangible factor, not feeling wanted. </p>

<p>Also, in a tiny program that is supposed to be filled with a highly collaborative group of intensely close students, how desireable is it to announce that there are lone ‘mega-stars’ with preferential treatment from the get go? I mean, there are such approaches in other fields, but they do give the program a non-collaborative, very competitive feel (for instance, my friend’s son was accepted to a tippy-top program for his PhD in math, and turned it down because it is reputed to have such ‘stars’ and he didn’t want that environment). </p>

<p>But to me the main thing is it’s important for them to feel confidence in what they want, for themselves and no one else. When, hopefully, they graduate and become actors, no one will be telling them how awesome and talented they are when they audition, are rejected, audition, are rejected, go to callbacks, go to callbacks again, are rejected, land an audition, finally land a role as an extra, the show ends early, then off to auditions again, etc. In fact, the kind of kid who needs to feel wanted will have an awfully hard time as a young aspiring actor, because heaven knows you are sent signals again and again how <em>not</em> wanted you are. </p>

<p>Maybe this isn’t what people mean at all, but I wanted to clarify what I’m thinking of. Personally I think the offer is indicative of being wanted and certainly if they give you merit/talent money, that’s awesome. But I don’t think they need more. If you can’t go because of the money, that’s sad (it has happened to my kids for many programs) but that’s the reality of this economy and the decisions states are making to withdraw support to universities, and the fact that BFA programs are not huge money makers, and so on; that doesn’t really have to do being wanted, in my opinion .</p>

145

<p>If you are accepted you are wanted. If you’re hoping for a bidding war for your kid that’s another story and it seems to me that’s what this thread was about, which is interesting because we are also talking about someone who came off the waitlist, aren’t we?</p>

<p>Now, I don’t know who led the OP to believe that this was likely but it’s really rare. I do think it happens but my guess is by the time they get to the waitlist it’s been done. As for schmoozing and begging and promising and selling I’m not sure how I feel about that. We didn’t experience any of it beyond the very bottom of the list schools which really provoked nothing but uncomfortable eye-rolls from my daughter who had no intention of attending those programs anyway and shouldn’t have even applied.</p>

<p>Certainly, there are schools who need to work harder to get the top students and if they are in a race to become a top program they can’t do it without top talent. But is that a positive?</p>

146

<p>Here is our experience with “recruiting” when it was down to two schools.</p>

<p>School A: The school contacted us to set up a a visit. They set up a unique schedule for my son with classes of specific interest (higher level dance), arranged for him to stay in the dorm with a freshman MT, arranged for us to see the main stage show (providing tickets as the show was sold out), arranged a meeting with the Dean, met with the chair, met with other accepted students also there on a visit. Overall experience left him feeling “wanted.”</p>

<p>School B (which was his first choice): I called the school. We were given the exact same tour as someone visiting the school for the first time and the same tour given when we looked in the fall of his junior year. He sat in on two classes because he knew a student and she arranged it.</p>

<p>So while he was not “recruited” there was a different vibe at School A, having nothing to do with throwing extra $ or bad-mouthing another school.</p>

147

<p>I think lojosmo hit the nail on the head. I assume lojosmo’s S felt “wanted” at school A, and not so much at school B, yet he was accepted to both.</p>

148

<p>I’m coming late to this thread, but after observing my own four kids in the acceptance-aftermath stage, I concluded that some colleges/universities seem to systematically call/email/contact accepted students. I always took this as a sign that they were institutionally intent on improving their yield. </p>

<p>I did find that some schools were better set up, and thus seemed more receptive to dealing personally with admitted students. For example, D4 was admitted to a program that accepted 2 students in playwriting, the department set up a highly personalized visit. At other schools she was able to make contact with the department faculty, who were open and friendly and gave her the information she needed to know, but she had to be more proactive in setting up her classroom visits (eg, checking out the schedules, etc.) Even NYU, a larger program, had a faculty member contact her, which then initiated discussion. But there was never any pressure: none of this is recruitment, nor really is the impersonal “increase our yield” treatment that resulted in us turning off the ringer on our landline. At one college, the playwriting teacher actually advised my daughter that it would be in her best interest to accept a different program with better resources (which she eventually did.)</p>

<p>I would say recruitment would be sending college reps into high schools and into professional and community theater venues, and chasing down kids with film and tv credits. </p>

<p>I also agree with connections-- college theater programs have a collaborative nature. Creating a hierarchical culture of superstars seems to work against this model.</p>

<p>Or maybe I just don’t get it because my kids aren’t superstars. I have, on the other hand, seen a bit of what one might call “recruitment” in music conservatories, and even witnessed bidding wars unfold.</p>

149

<p>I agree with connections and Flossy. The acceptance itself was enough for my kids to feel wanted. They visited, met with faculty and students and those vibes also played a part. Nobody did a hard sell to them. They found their perfect fit colleges and grad schools and had great experiences there and felt supported by their schools.</p>

<p>PS, glassharmonica cross posted with me and I agree. I am not into the hard sell or recruitment stuff. Yes, my kids surely met with people on campus and that was important, but nobody tried to give a hard sell. It was more informative in nature. </p>

<p>As an aside, I will say that the STUDENTS at one of the tippy top BFA in MT programs badmouthed other programs to my daughter and that was a turn off. I’d rather them tout their own program and not put down other ones. They put down the one that my D had as her top choice and where she ended up attending in fact.</p>

150

<p>Also, I think some top programs and schools don’t have to give the accepted student a hard sell to recruit them. These schools or programs are very much in demand. I think newer or wannabe programs are the ones trying to lure the students using any tactics they can to do so.</p>

151

<p>^^^^ I agree. When we went through the process in 2007 of recruitment, we received an occasional call or three asking us if we made our decision, if we had any further questions, would we like to speak with a current student, etc. I think the intention at the time was two fold - one showing interest and two wanting to get to the waitlist asap (we made our decision on May 1). We did apply to a lot of schools and were fortunate enough to receive a fair number of acceptances. I think the difference for us was we only applied to well established, highly thought of, reputable schools (eastern third of US) and not the newer or wannabe programs SoozieVT referenced.</p>

152

<p>I did mention I was surprised there was not a more active recruitment in some cases. Not certain if I used the words “hard sell.” But in some cases, there was no call at all by the department. I don’t care what anyone says, this is not even a “soft sell” to me. When your acceptance is an institutional email sent to your child, telling them to check their admission status online, which is followed up by an institutional form letter?</p>

<p>There were programs that accepted S which never had a department person personally email or call my S or the house to speak to anyone. That is waaaaay impersonal.</p>

<p>I am not talking about ego boosts, or stroking, or sucking up. A personal courtesy call. From the musical theatre department. Period. No one can convince me that any program is so great that (as theatremomma says) the $$$$ being requested should not warrant a personal email or phone call from a chair, head, or faculty member.</p>

<p>I do think I said it would be nice for them to “show the love.” “Virtual applause.” Maybe that overstatement got everyone going too far the other way. I am talking about a personal connection. Theatre is an artform dealing with the human condition and relationships. Are they really too busy to reach out? If they can’t do that, how good can they be at teaching acting and nurturing our kids. Anyway, that is the signal that seems like is being sent. Anyway, that is what I think. </p>

<p>IMHO. Respectfully.</p>

153

<p>

</p>

<p>It could be that the faculty are just busy with their current students. I think it’s really up to the admissions and marketing people to make students feel welcomed (or to mandate recruitment activities.) In my own department (not theater-related) there is now a staff person in charge of recruitment, but that was a long time coming, and I think it’s relatively rare.</p>

154

<p>The acceptance is the key. They want you. As competitive as this field is, just go with that. Funny thing is how some kids feel. I had asked my D is she wanted to stay on a certain wait list to see if it would open for her after May 1. She said no because she felt she wanted to go to the school that “believed in her from the beginning”. Not every kid feels this - I’m sure. But this is a commentary on knowing the school wants you without further BIG sell.</p>

155

<p>

</p>

<p>D had several schools after two rounds of early auditions doing very active wooing – most were schools she never even finished applying for – including chasing her down hallways, offering free trips to campus, big merit money and making at least weekly personal contact, but at her top choice school she was never recruited and never even met the MT Chair until the end of her first year (she barely knows him now). She is not a natural networker (she’s an introvert) and generally dislikes the idea that people are cast because of connections, so it makes sense to me that this wasn’t an important factor for her.</p>

<p>I agree with those who have said that professional theatre life may at times be difficult for kids who are accustomed to being wooed, as it is the exception rather than the rule. On the other hand, actors who thrive on networking do enjoy some natural advantages over those who don’t.</p>

156

<p>In regular college admissions, not for MT, it is not that common for a dept. head or faculty person to keep calling accepted students to woo them. The letter of admission is the “we want you” message. My kids were not looking for more than that. For grad school admissions, my D did go and meet with dept. heads after she was accepted, but did so of her own accord. She felt wanted. She didn’t need to be wooed. My MT kid felt wanted at her program when she was admitted and when she attended. It is a big school and program, but even when I attended graduation festivities, the Dean knew who my D was. So, even without wooing, students are wanted. I never expected more than an acceptance letter (sometimes my kids were called with an acceptance…such as for Syracuse’s BFA in MT program or my other D’s grad programs), but nobody called our house trying to get the kids to attend. My kids took the initiative to meet with people on campus and make their own decisions and I am actually glad nobody was calling them up to convince them. I really didn’t expect them too. They don’t do that for other college majors, at least not that I know of.</p>

157

<p>Since this thread has gone off in so many different (albeit interesting) directions since the original post, I thought I would bring it back to the original intention…debunking myths we heard along the way. I am restating the Myths that have been posted in this thread, with the screen name of the original person posting it and their original premise. Some of these Myths have been debunked but some still stand as truths so if you are interested in that myth, go back and read the ensuing discussion.</p>

<p>Kadieblue-Post #1-Myth #1: When you audition can determine whether you get in. For what it’s worth, my D auditioned at two schools early action; one she got in and one she did not. She also auditioned in mid to late February for two schools; one she got in and one she did not. She also auditioned at a bunch of schools somewhere in the middle of the process. The timing of auditions did not seem to have any affect on whether or not she got in.</p>

<p>Kadieblue-Post #1-Myth #2: You can figure out whether someone got in by what happened in the audition room. Quite simply, you cannot!! Try not to drive yourself crazy. Whether your child is worked with, barely spoken to, complimented generously, etc., has NO bearing on whether or not they will get in. My daughter got into schools where she was not worked with and she also got into schools where she was worked with, and she was rejected from schools where she was worked with. She was told in one audition that she was ‘very very talented’ and she did not get in. You cannot figure any of this stuff out so do not try, just do the auditions, celebrate whatever happened in the room and move on.</p>

<p>Kadieblue-Post #1-Myth #3: Thank you’s are something that may help you get in. Perhaps thank you’s matter, perhaps they don’t. In our case, for the schools that my daughter got into, she did not write a thank you. The school where the person handed her a business card during the audition, and my daughter promptly wrote a thank you–she did not get in. Again, you cannot figure any of it out.</p>

<p>Kadieblue-Post #1-Myth #4: If you audition at NYU Tisch and you are not asked what studio you are interested in during the interview, you are probably not getting in. My daughter was not asked this question and she got in. I worried quite needlessly over the lack of this question during the interview. Again, you cannot figure any of this stuff out so probably best to resist trying. </p>

<p>Kadieblue-Post #1-Myth #5: BFA schools that separately admit your child academically will be a good safety, and BA schools that happen to have theater programs will also be good safeties. Here’s the thing about safeties: Your child has to want to go there to make it a true safety. Just because a school has a strong non-audition theater program doesn’t mean your child will automatically love it. Make sure you visit and plan for safeties that your child can actually see themselves at. Regarding the academic acceptance fallback, some kids, if they are rejected artistically from a school, may be turned off from that school and not want to consider going there for something else. And this may not show itself until after the rejections come in. In which case that school is no longer a safety. Know your child and know your safeties well! It will make this process a lot less stressful to have very good safeties lined up while you are waiting to hear from the audition programs.</p>

<p>Theatermom2013-Post#6-Myth #6: Geography. You don’t need to go to NY, LA or Chicago to get an excellent performing arts education. Look at the faculty, look at the program, the connections, the opportunities. That was one of the biggest surprises for me in this process. There are some amazing programs in parts of the country that I wouldn’t have associated with big theater cultural centers. Don’t discard something just because it’s not in one of the “big” cities.</p>

<p>monkey13-Post #7-Can we debunk this Myth?: If you don’t see Barbara in a CMU audition, you will not get in. Every year, people (including CMU) say this isn’t true. But every year, it seems like the only people who get in are the ones seen by Barbara (whether they are passed on to her, or start with her). And this year, one of my D’s friends confirmed this was true. I would love to hear from someone who got into CMU without being seen by Barbara so we can put this one to bed. Anyone?</p>

<p>monkey13-Post #7-Can we debunk this Myth?: If you don’t get an on campus callback at Pace, you will not get in. Similar situation here…Pace insisted you can get in without a CB, but I have not heard of anyone who has. (Exception here is kids auditioning at Moonifieds…I am talking about people who audition for Pace on campus.). Anyone get into Pace who did not receive a CB?</p>

<p>Momarmarino - Post #19 -MYTH: Without using a professional coach and going to summer intensives/pre college programs you will not get in the top programs (whatever “top” may mean and I know that’s a whole other discussion!!!) We did not use a professional coach and my D did not go to any pre-college/summer intensive programs (she did regional theatre here in our area suring the summer). She did all her auditions at Unifieds in Chicago, and our state does not have a very active Thespian organizations, but we do have lots of excellent regional theatre programs. She was accepted into BoCo, Ithaca, Point Park, waitlisted at Carnegie Mellon and Ball State, and Priority Hold for TexasState and received talent and/or merit or presidential scholarships at every school she was accepted at. I am saying this not to brag but to give hope to those who will be going through this process next year and in the future. </p>

<p>Tracyvp – Post #21 - MYTH: Grades and Standardized Test Scores aren’t that important if you’re going to a conservatory program within a Liberal Arts College or a State University. The audition is all that matters.
REALITY: They may not matter much for admission, but they may make all the difference in the world when it comes to determining whether you can afford to attend. Almost ALL of the scholarship money my D received at every school was in the form of Merit aid that was tied to her GPA/SAT scores (emphasis on the test scores). Most schools don’t have very much artistic merit money to give, and the vast majority of it goes to those they are most desperate to get (read: boys). Sometimes your only hope of affording an OOS school or a private college is going to be in getting a very significant Merit Scholarship, and that is all about the test scores (with a nod to GPA).</p>

<p>Grayhairedman – Post #64 - I want to debunk one myth which is that going last on an audition day hurts you. I know that Unifieds are likely more time challenged and stressful for the colleges than a campus audition, and our S did not go to Unifieds. However, his audition for Texas State and Carnegie Mellon was the last in the day at the campus audition. Seemed to work out fine. (Which is to say he was accepted at both ultimately.)</p>

<p>Grayhairedman – Post #78 MYTH - If a school accepts your child (or you) into their program, they will do EVERYTHING they can to matriculate them until decision time. Actually, I was told this was especially true of the “top” schools. Well, we did not find this to be true. I imagined that come late March, with my son’s choices, we would be getting multiple phone calls and emails from chairs of departments. There would be negotiating talent scholarships like NCAA schools recruiting a star athlete. Part of this was based on what I was told by reliable sources. I won’t elaborate further. Part of this MUST have been my imagination spurred on by my hopes and dreams.</p>

158

<p>Shaun0203, when my D auditioned at Pace, we were told that you would NOT get in without a callback. I was not aware of them saying otherwise.</p>

159

<p>Shaun, excellent summary.</p>

160

<p>I find that as a coach and director, there is this feeling among the students that if you played opposite someone, or you were double cast in a role with someone that got into a bunch of amazing programs, that means you will too. This is a huge misconception about the difference between general talent and readiness for an intense BFA program and your ability to play a specific role in a certain show. Students can’t compare themselves to their friends and assume they will have a specific outcome. </p>

<p>Another misconception is that if you get better parts than someone, then you will definitely get into better schools than them. I’ve seen excellent Ensemble performers get into amazing programs over kids who play leads because they were more versatile triple threats.</p>

<p>Again, you can’t compare yourself to your friends or assume that things will go the way you expect. Each individual is judged on the role of STUDENT not the role of Millie or Joseph or whatever. They are also looking at your potential 4 years out. People forget this too.</p>

<p>What this misconception leads to is a VERY unrealistic list of schools to audition for and then very few, if any acceptances. There is a culture among seniors sometimes that “good” performers are “above” certain programs, but every year, year after year, I see that those “good” performers realize that they should have applied to a more balanced list of schools and they realize they would TOTALLY be happy to be at those programs they once thought they were “above”.</p>