<p>My son is comparing an offer to play D1 soccer at a good state university with an offer to play D3 soccer at a great liberal arts college. He likes both schools and really likes the coaches and players at both schools. He loves both campuses, but the location of the D1 is slightly better. He'd be an early and major contributor to the D3 team but would likely get little play time as a freshman at the D1. The prestige of playing D1 soccer, the better training resources, and the higher caliber of play are very enticing, but he doesn't really have dreams of playing professionally. He's a fairly strong student, but it's questionable as to whether he'd be able to get into the D3 school without the athletics. At the D1 school, his academics would put him significantly above average. He's undecided as to a major; both schools have plenty of good options. He thinks he would want to go on to law school or another graduate program after college and if we thought one school would provide significant advantage over the other in getting into a graduate program, that would be a significant factor. (Would it?) He comes from a high caliber small high school environment, but that cuts both ways. On the one hand, the D3 choice is compatible with his current experience (small, personal, high caliber) and on the other hand a larger school is enticing for the change in environment. For the purposes of this discussion, exclude consideration of relative cost. It's a tough call for us and we'd appreciate inputs, suggestions as to factors to consider, etc. </p>
<p>You are probably already aware of this, but bear in mind that as a D1 athlete it’s very difficult to find time to do anything else. If he eats, breathes and sleeps soccer (and wants to continue to do so), D1 may be for him. </p>
<p>On the law school admission side, it is all about GPA and LSAT test scores, after that, ECs are a minor factor. So depending on what the grade inflation is or isn’t at the D3, being stronger student at D1 than the rest of the pool, with academic support of an athlete, could actually make it easier to come out with a strong gpa. Then, again, also depends on the peer group. Congrats to him on his opportunities!</p>
<p>Thanks for the response! He IS used to playing 3+ seasons of soccer / year, then kicks the ball around in the backyard and then watches professional soccer on TV … He won’t miss being able to do other extracurriculars (but does delude himself about the opportunity he’d have at the D1 to spend time in the big city an hour away … ) One concern is that we’d love for him to travel abroad to gain fluency in Spanish (he’ll have completed Spanish 5 in HS). D3 will allow and even encourage a spring semester abroad (and help set him up with an international team to play with), and at D1 he certainly won’t be able to do a semester abroad, but could possibly do 3-4 weeks abroad in winter or summer.</p>
<p>I know you said not to consider cost but… if he is considering law school, the school that would leave him without debt would have an advantage in my mind.</p>
<p>Congrats to your son on having such great options! Really, neither is wrong and he will make the most of whatever the final outcome.</p>
<p>It’s all a matter of differing opinion, I suppose, but:</p>
<p>Ask the question: is he going to college to play soccer, or to get an education and prepare for life and possible graduate school? If the former, go with the better soccer program. If the latter, go with the better college.</p>
<p>Just to dwell on the law school issue, though it’s premature to consider that the main driving factor: It’s true that law school admissions is heavily driven by GPA and LSAT, but they do know the difference between one college and another. A 3.7 from Williams is not the same thing as a 3.7 from University of Arkansas. It’s guesswork without the names of the D1 and D3 schools you’re talking about, but - as you roughly describe them - it’s likely he’ll do better in law school admissions with the D3 choice.</p>
<p>I’m comforted to think there are no wrong choices here. His dad and I were leaning toward the D3, but our son is currently leaning toward the D1. The D1, btw, is the same undergrad where I went, and I managed to graduate from that school and get into my #1 choice law school. I just called that law school’s admission department and they told me they didn’t judge by the undergraduate institution, but rather the GPA and the complete package or story. Hmmm … a lot of my classmates were from prestigious universities and liberal arts colleges though! Once I arrived at law school, I remember being surprised and pleased at the caliber of the class discussions. I wasn’t used to it. While there were students and professors operating at that level at the D1 school, they were fewer and I had to really seek them out. My son, though sharp, does not see himself as an intellectual and he does not (at age 18) get as turned on by intellectual pursuits as I did at his age. I tell myself that if he feels happier at the D1, he may thrive and do better there. He also does well with structure, and the demands of the soccer team will impose a lot of structure. I can get myself twisted up in this decision, but when I do I return to my first sentence above.</p>
<p>Please do feel free to weigh in … I really appreciate the different viewpoints and thoughts!</p>
<p>If he’s leaning toward the D1, that sort of trumps everything else. What you want to avoid is to nudge/guide him into the D3 and then get the call in October that he’s miserable.</p>
<p>My daughter is a swimmer. I frequently remind her that she is one bad injury away from never swimming again. So pick a school based on academics, fit, etc. Then consider swimming. That’s my advice to her. </p>
<p>Better school=better alumni network=better opportunities
A top tier education is one of the few variables shown to pay back with dividends in the course of one’s life.It really opens more doors, even with the possibly lower GPA.
Say your S doesn’t end up going to law school-most of my son’s friends from Midd all have jobs if they want them with a lowly bachelor’s degree. He has an excellent job with an environmental lobbying firm in DC, and was hired at a non-entry level position and salary because of Midd experience and connections.
Also there is the garden of chosen plants theory-what percent of freshmen stating they intend to go to law school end up in law school at the big SU versus the small LAC? What percent of those who apply get into any law school, or a top tier law school, which with our country’s current lawyer glut, also makes a big difference.
I feel without my Bates education I may have been one of the wash-outs for women in science. I got the individual encouragement and support I needed.
And the semester abroad won’t happen in D1 unless he quits the team…</p>
<p>True … I never got any “alumni network” help from the D1 school (my undergrad institution), but my law school name goes a long way…</p>
<p>I like the advice about going to the school you would enjoy even if you got injured and couldn’t play. Having said that, though, sounds like your S would enjoy the D1 better. </p>
<p>The admissions department of the law school I went to had a set adjustment they applied to GPA for various colleges. It was derived by looking at the law school grades of the graduates of various colleges, relative to their undergraduate GPAs, as well (perhaps) as a little bit of softer adjustment. The adjusted GPA was combined with LSAT to create an index, which was the primary determinant of admission decisions.</p>
<p>If they just said GPA-is-GPA, wouldn’t the smart move be to go to the least competitive community college that offers a BA and take the easiest classes?</p>
<p>Colleges (at least some of them) do the same thing with high school grades. University of Washington used to release the adjustment for various high schools, but I don’t think they do any more.</p>
<p>The other posters have addressed the academic angle so I will weigh in on the soccer aspect. Your son will spend a lot of hours with the coach particularly if he plays DI. Almost all of my son’s coaches since U-10 have been college coaches, mainly DI or Ivy. Some of these men have been wonderful and some of them I could barely tolerate. While your son probably won’t be able to spend enough time around the coach to get a good read on his personality, a lot can be learned from studying the rosters for the last few years. Is there a lot of turnover? Does the coach bring in a large number of recruits and then not play them or redshirt them? Do freshman usually get any playing time? Are there players who play one year but then sit the next? How many players do they have in your son’s position now and how many are they bringing in? A number of the kids my son has played with are currently playing college, as his team encompasses two year age wise. One player went in expecting to play, but the coach brought in over 15 new players and he found himself redshirted. Two have not seen the field because only 13 players regularly play, while a larger number never see the field. One player played a lot and got league honors his first year but has only been on the field 10 minutes this year. There is some discussion on our local soccer forum about the coaches of local colleges, so you may want to see if there is such a forum for the areas where the colleges are located. </p>
<p>Good luck to your son. </p>
<p>Really good point, Tyberius. Thanks for the response. The coaches tell a good story, but it behooves us to do the research. Research on player stats should be easy enough, but I haven’t been able to find any forums discussing the coaches. The reality is there’s a lot more risk with the D1 team. Absent an injury, my son will clearly be a valuable player for the D3 team from the get-go. For the D1 team, he’s told he’ll be an “apprentice” during his freshman year, with MAYBE some play time. As to when and whether he gets play time after that, it will depend on how he develops compared to others. Clearly a D1 team will have more than one strong player for each position but they say he is the lead recruit for his position. Other recruits are capable of playing that position, but their greatest strength is in other positions. They tell us that once they commit to him, he won’t lose his spot on the team for any reason other than disciplinary action, but that doesn’t mean he’ll get play time. We also learned on our visit that the entire team does not travel for all the away games. Freshmen will learn just a day or two in advance whether they’re joining the team for the weekend travel. It’s something he’ll have to understand and be ok with.</p>
<p>He’s happy playing. He’s not a future Olympic hopeful. You yourself state he will play more D3. To me, the math points to the D3 school.
And “prestige of playing D 1”? Prestige with who(m)? “I was a 4 season varsity athlete and a senior captain” sounds good enough for most purposes.
My son swam for Midd and went to (and finalled at) the conference meet every year! Pretty cool for him! His HS buddy who went to Harvard never got taken to the conference meet. Sometimes more fun to be the big fish…not slammin’ the big H, tho…</p>
<p>Keep in mind that coaches come and go very frequently on college teams. While it’s good for your son to get a good vibe from the current coaches, don’t let that be the deciding factor in the decision. </p>
<p>I will once again chime in. If the reason your son wants to play soccer in college is to actually play and feel like a contributor to his team, then i would prioritize that (after academics). It could be unsatisfying to be on a D1 team but not get to be part of the team’s success. I know nothing about soccer, so I’m not saying he wouldn’t contribute. But, if that’s important to him, that should be a strong consideration in the d1 d3 conversation. It really depends on what he wants to get out of his sport. </p>
<p>It is a great problem to have. Many people on this board have had a similar challenge, and selected based on what was most important to them. My son was offered at a prestigious Ivy school, an Ivy school, a great D3 school and other academic D1s. He picked the school based on the breadth and depth of his intended major. He didn’t care about the name on the college or the athletic division. He wasn’t going pro in anything other than his major. There is no right or wrong answer only solid reasoning for your situation.</p>
<p>Many poster on this board describe the selection of a D1 program as a choice of either high quality academics or challenging athletics. I have known athletes that choose to have both-some by choosing a challenging major in a school that has high intensity D1 athletics. Your son could decide to go with the D1 program and retrace your path to a high quality law school or go the D3 path and perhaps have a slightly easier time getting into a great law school. Based on what you have posted so far I don’t see either choice as being a mistake. I would give him all your insight into the situation and then allow him to choose. You may also want to visit both schools again and that may help him decide. </p>