Hi guys! I would appreciate if you all could chance me! Please be harsh lol, my parents have desensitized me to anything people on the internet can say.
My dream school is Georgetown. They have a Science Technology and International Affairs major that is literally calling my name, I’ve already interviewed, and I’m already preparing myself for a rejection. I am super into law and politics, but from a scientific perspective. I want to serve in the Peace Corp, do policy research, and work for the UN (either as a lawyer or in diplomacy. When I am older and more financially stable, I plan on going into politics.
Without further ado, here are my reach schools:
Wellesley, George Washington, Boston College, Boston University, Vanderbilt, Northeastern, Columbia, Harvard, Cornell ILR, Georgetown, University of Pennsylvania
Don’t worry, I’m applying to my state school and a couple of safeties/low targets as well. Left them out so it isn’t too obvious where I live.
And my stats:
97.6 UW GPA (my school doesn’t do 4.0 or class rankings sigh)
Waiting on SAT and ACT (will edit to add these later)
AP: Currently taking 4, have gotten 2 5’s and 1 4 on past exams
Also got a 5 on NEWL (Foreign language exam structured and graded like AP - took a language not offered by College Board).
Have taken 3 additional college credit bearing classes, am currently taking 2 more.
School profile:
Pretty competitive public school, regularly sends kids to MIT and Ivies for stem (based off merit, not corruption). Rare to have humanities students, people have used that to get into Ivies in the past. Basically, I will have competition to my schools, but never for my major or a similar one.
Demographic:
Eastern European and Jewish female, lower middle class, live nearby a city but not in it. Both parents are healthcare workers (not doctors).
Activities:
Teacher‘s Assistant (foreign language)
Administrative Assistant for established non-profit in my state (summer job)
A decent number of clubs: (Science Olympiad, Model UN, Mock Trial, PAW Club, Debate Team, Chess Team, Key Club, Rotary Interact, etc) Most major ones are JSA (won best speaker at a tournament), and school-spirit type organization that created mentoring and hosted fun/important events (big leadership role, got big part of the school involved, backed up by recommender).
Volunteer for 1 for-profit company and 1 non-profit (Also tons of volunteering events at school and at school-related open houses in our area)
National Honor Society Member (Haven’t been able to do much because we find out March of Junior year)
Worked with BloombergNEF financial analyst, wrote a policy paper about environmental, housing, and job concerns in the wake of COVID, BLM, and natural disasters. It even has a mini bill!
Currently work for very amazing start-up, largely staffed by PhD students of a prestigious school I’m not applying to (? the missed opportunity lol)
Random Stuff:
National Merit Commended Student
Competed in a couple of Hackathons (placed in an international one)
Gold medalist in National Russian Essay Contest
Essays:
I think I’m a pretty decent writer, my family also has a good immigration backstory that has shaped my interest in public service, which I talk about somewhat. Also have some health stuff, but not really exploiting that in my essays because I don’t think it defines me.
Anyway, sorry for the giant block of text, please judge away! Be mean, I can take it!
Usually on CC we are telling students that their match schools are really reaches.
I am wondering if “Boston College, Boston University” are really matches, and not reaches, as long as you can afford them.
I think that you are competitive at any university, although of course many of your reaches are indeed reaches even for the strongest students. I think that you have a good list although it is long. The only thing that I would ask is whether you have any financial limitations, and if so if you have run the NPCs?
As long as you have safeties and your finances are in line I think that you are in good shape. I do wonder if you should find a way to shorten your list a bit, while still making sure to apply to at least two safeties.
Agree with post #1, and also think GWU is more a match than a reach if affordable.
I would consider these schools reaches because I am competing for merit scholarships, which are obviously quite difficult to get. My family has a difficult financial situation, so Georgetown and the Ivies are a pipe dream in every sense, but I think that some of my external scholarship applications combined with financial and merit aid may make going out of state a possibility.
In terms of timing, while I appreciate your concern, I don’t really write essays like a normal student. It has never taken me more than 2-3 days to come up with an idea and finalize it. I am definitely really lucky in that regard. Also, plenty of these schools have repetitive essays, like the extracurricular one. But you are right, and I have a priority ranking for the order in which I am working on these applications to make sure that I don’t get burnt out for the most important ones.
Thank you for your confidence in me! I am really flattered that you would consider GWU a high target, because their Elliot school is amazing.
Edit: Damn it, I meant to reply! Wow CC is more than my brain can handle right now lol.
The very top colleges like the Ivies do not have merit scholarships, but they meet full need (as they calculate it), so the main trick there is getting in. I am not sure about BC as my daughter never really looked into it, but both BU and GWU have some decent merit scholarships and also offer need based aid. GWU is need aware for admissions, but at the info session we attended they indicated that really only comes into play for borderline applicants, which I don’t think you’d be based on your scores. I’m not sure if you’ve looked at Brandeis or Fordham, but they are both decent schools that I think you’d also have a chance of getting decent merit at.
Good luck!
I am also applying to Fordham! I love the Jesuit aspect, but they don’t have my major 
But I consider it more of a target because I could feasibly live with a relative of mine that is nearby and save on room and board. I’ve looked into Brandeis, and other than the Jewish element, I wasn’t in love.
That is good to know about GWU! I have legacy there (from a cousin, not a parent), not that they care about that stuff, so my main source of information hasn’t been too knowledgeable about the technical aspects.
Would you say the information session was worth your time? I have been to some where I learned nothing at all, and others that were amazing.
Re the information sessions - I would look at these mostly through my daughter’s eyes, and she indeed found some of them a waste of time. (We did these all in person pre-pandemic.) She really liked the one at GWU, and I felt they were pretty informative for parents. My daughter actually liked GWU so much that she decided she would ED2 at GWU if her ED1 school (NYU) did not come through (it did, and she was almost sad at not sending in an application to GWU after lovingly crafting her essay for it!). Interestingly, she didn’t love Brandeis either, but she liked Fordham a lot, so it made her shortlist. BU and American rounded out her top 5. I don’t think American is particularly generous with merit, although it’s a good DC option for international affairs.
“Your major” exists at virtually every university in the country. You may need to do an independent study senior year, you may need to craft an interdisciplinary program out of three different departments and find a faculty member to sponsor you, but there is nothing exotic about what you want to do.
Don’t get sucked in to the nomenclature and marketing, especially if you have financial constraints. Look at any university with a strong political science, foreign affairs, regional studies (depending on the part of the world you are interested in) and take a look at the course catalogs to explore the crossover with econ, history, and the other disciplines that are relevant to what you want to do. Agronomy is particularly helpful for the Peace Corps but that’s usually a strong department at big flagship state U’s. But a strong geology, earth sciences, public health, bio, chem, can give you what you need.
Which of these U’s are affordable with just need based aid if the substantial merit awards don’t come through?
@SJ2727 That’s super helpful! Thank you for letting me know!
@blossom Hi, thank you for all of your advice! I must not have explained clearly. I’m not looking for a degree to help me serve in the Peace Corp. It was my understanding that anyone, with any degree, could serve. I am specifically looking for a degree that will set me up to work for the UN and/or help me get a fellowship for grad school. I understand that my dream job is very competitive, and the connections I would make at a state school would not even hold a candle to those I could make at one of my top schools. I want the job placement, the alumni network, the ambitious peers, the incredible research opportunities (specifically policy research, but at a school that has the connection to make sure at least a few legislative officials will see my work). I want to go to school in the UK, and I am hoping to apply for the Rhodes, Marshall, and Truman Scholarships. There are certain schools that are just better at helping students get into those programs. So no, my program does not exist at “virtually every school”. I appreciate the thought, and I am applying to my state school, but I firmly believe that my needs will not be met at this sort of institution.
Your understanding is…imperfect.
The Peace Corps. does not take ‘anyone, with any degree’: you apply - and can be rejected if your CV is not competitive. You will want to figure out what sort of role(s) you want and make sure that you have relevant expertise. (fwiw, the current crop of Peace Corps volunteers are very bitter about the way that they were brought home & their contracts cancelled for Covid).
Yes, students from selective schools do well in the selective grad school fellowships- but so do students from less selective schools (eg, Sewanee/University of the South) and the state universities of Mississippi, Oklahoma, Virginia, Washington, North Carolina, West Virginia, Texas, Michigan and Kansas and Montana. You underestimate the universities, the professors, and the way that schools will support their star students.
The things that will matter most in getting the fellowships and jobs you want are good grades, great LoRs and -especially- the internships you get. These internships are competitive, and essentially unpaid. That means that $$ matters a *lot: if you have to save money to pay for college or to service debt, your ability to take on those no/low paid internships/jobs will be seriously jeopardized. If the choice is Fancier Name but $100K in debt or State U and no debt, your career options will be better at State U. The best connections in the world won’t get around the fact that IR/Public Policy type careers are terribly paid until after grad school- which you typically start 2-4 years after undergrad.
*for example a recent post for a “Global Development and Public Policy Internship” looking for an undergraduate student required 32-40 hours/week of work (during term time!), with a $1000 stipend for the semester- basically bus fare
@collegemom3717 Sorry, I meant that degree alone would not be the deciding factor. You are right that service is very important, as is leadership, teamwork, and speaking at least one foreign language (I’m fluent in 2 UN languages, and teaching myself a 3rd - I intend to eventually be at least intermediate in all 5).
My state school is not in any of the states you listed, and what’s more, I know several student at my state school, and they have repeatedly complained that they lack some of the main things that I am looking for. Compared to my friends in the Ivies and MIT, it really seems like night and day. I am still applying to my state school, and will do my best succeed regardless of where I end up, but I just see this school as missing some of the factors most important to me. Also, this is obviously true at every public school, but it’s almost exclusively people from my state. I am really hoping to attend a university with a sizable international population, and geographic diversity, because that really contributes to a person’s understanding and awareness of global issues.
I am aware that grades are a huge factor, but I am currently (according to my counselor and several others) taking a course load which simulates that of a college freshmen, while also working, and am not struggling with grades. I have a very bold personality(not necessarily 100% positive or negative, but most of the teachers I respect have been very open to it), so connecting with teachers has been pretty easy in the past. However I will definitely keep your advice in mind, and put in the work needed to stand out in large classes.
Of course many internships are unpaid, but I also plan on doing work-study, and many of my friends have gotten stipends from their (mostly highly ranked private) schools to do internships which were loosely public service related. I’m sure that funding for this exists in other schools as well, I’ve just only heard about this from people in those top schools.
I have no plans on going into debt, and especially not if it is six-figures. The Ivies and Georgetown are just pipe dreams (I’m applying because I’ve dreamt of going for so long, but I understand they don’t want people like me), and outside of those, my list has been edited since the original post to pretty much only include schools that give full tuition merit scholarships or public schools. I appreciate the financial concern, but my family comes from an incredibly impoverished background, and I will not be making any reckless decisions regarding future spending.
Of course, I understand that many of these jobs are not well paid, and that is why I am considering law school as an alternative to grad school, because I know that the UN needs lawyers as well, and I am interested in environmental law specifically.
I don’t know how much is miscommunication vs what I actually misunderstood, but I appreciate your feedback and will definitely take what you said into account.
Again, your understanding is…imperfect.
I’m not sure what is included in “like me”- but the parts you put here- smart / hard-working / high achieving / ambitious with a strong public service focus- are indeed the sort of people they want. If it’s the ‘impoverished background’ or the first generation US citizen part you think they don’t want, you are wrong about that as well!
The challenge with the super-selectives isn’t that they won’t want you- it’s that the sheer numbers of super-qualified applicants means that there simply aren’t enough space for everybody. Do your stats put you in the cohort of your class that is likely to get offers from Ivys/MIT/etc?
You haven’t been specific about this, but you alluded to your family’s financial situation being ‘complex’. Does that mean that the net-price calculators (NPC) yield numbers that are not affordable? Even (say) Cornell? Georgetown?
Fwiw, stipends for public-service oriented internships exist at a lot of colleges and universities- typically $3-5K/ for a summer. The NSF has some REUs in the Social Sciences, and some of policy places stipend (though many try to weasel by giving ‘academic credit’, which doesn’t pay the rent). If you have EU citizenship that opens even more options.
One piece that may not be obvious is that the better you can figure out what you are looking for the better you can target schools. Remember that whatever you start out thinking can evolve and grow- nobody expects that how you see your path at 18 will be the same as at 21 / 25 / 30!- but it will help you start building expertise in an area of genuine interest. For early-stage career that is massively helpful.
So going on the bits you mention in your posts above, you seem interested in the intersection of (environmental?) science, public policy and IA/IR. Do you find things like these interesting?
https://www.internationalaffairshouse.org/environmentalism-in-ir-theory/
https://duckofminerva.com/2017/04/why-ir-needs-the-environment-and-the-environment-needs-ir.html
Even if it’s not environmental science, having actual science credentials is an advantage in policy circles- because many students divide along the quant/qual humanities/science axis you mention above. A student who is both comfortable and credentialed at the interface stands out. If Georgetown isn’t affordable there are other schools where you can do a combined science + IA/IR degree.
Finally, are you familiar with natsecgirlsquad.com? Although it is focused on the national security and defense end of things, it is a super resource for young women looking for careers across the public policy spectrum. My public policy collegekid found her current (Cairo based, but virtual) internship through their listserv.
@collegemom3717 By like me, I meant white (because Slavic is still white, even though we are culturally very different), currently middle class (impoverished past means that they don’t have savings typical for current income, but this is not accurately reflected by FAFSA), and not first gen (I am the first to be born here, but my mom redid her education here, and my dad recently got an online degree). I am on the verge of having hooks, but I don’t.
And my FAFSA efc means that my family will probably not be in the position to afford anything that isn’t local or public. They also generally have no interest in paying for my education, and have repeatedly told me that they won’t contribute a cent if I go out of state (which most of these schools are). I’m applying in part to solidify my candidacy, because I plan on transferring after I emancipate myself if I don’t get an affordable offer for first year admissions.
I can’t do NPC’s myself, because they are very secretive about how much we actually have, but my mom claims that Cornell’s calculator gave us nothing.
As for stats, I would say so, I have a 34 act, waiting on SAT, a 97.4 uw gpa, 7 AP and 6-8 college credit/dual enrollment courses, including this year. I think that I am academically competitive, but as you’ve mentioned, that isn’t enough by itself. Our school doesn’t do rankings (and stopped weighing gpas my freshman year, so I can’t compare mine to upperclassmen friends at top schools), so I can’t really see how I stack up, but I also am choosing my ideal humanities major as my first choice (I specify in my common app that I’m interested in both) at most colleges because I am almost certain there is no one from my school doing the same. So I think most of my competition will be regional and not directly from my school.
I do really like environmental science (and atlas is great, I’ve cited them before!), but I’m also really interested in public health and criminal justice. I would definitely double major or minor in at least on of those topics. I generally see what you are saying about being both, but I do really want a liberal arts experience. I go to a specialized technical school, and the humanities are often looked down upon compared to stem. I would prefer a student body where at least a portion prioritizes the humanities and sees their full value. I think that a school that attracts students from a variety of fields would be best for me, but that leaves me competing with said top students for a spot.
Yes, I have vaguely heard about those, but will definitely look into them more! And natsecgirlsquad looks super cool, I will definitely check them out right after! Thank you so much for all of your help and advice! I really appreciate it!
Sounds like the struggle with $$ is going to color your undergrad choices a lot.
See if you can figure out the $$ amount that your family are willing to pay: that is, how much in-state will require out of pocket. One way or the other, that’s your max budget.
If you are indeed full pay for Cornell, then you are chasing merit- which is hard, and getting harder, even with great stats. It also means that you are looking at schools where your stats are worth the college paying for some/most/all of your education- in other words, they stand out from the majority of the student . For a student whose peers are headed to highly selective schools that can feel like a let down. Do the research, but the usual suspects are places like UAlabama, USouthCarolina, etc.
I think you misunderstand “liberal arts” schools. MOST US colleges & universities are on the Liberal Arts model. Outside of a handful of specialized schools (eg Colorado School of Mines, Harvey Mudd etc), there will be very strong humanities presence anywhere you go- not just the top names.
You have a super academic record, and I am sorry that finances are likely to limit your options- but that is the reality for many- indeed, most- students. In turn it is why even at your in-state options you will be able to find other smart, motivated students.
You are smart, hard-working and tenacious. All good things.
You need to flip the model you are using to evaluate colleges. If you are getting no need based aid, and your parents won’t help you financially (or fill out FAFSA), then the ONLY criterion you need to focus on right now is getting a bachelor’s degree in four years, without debt, at a recognizable university with good advising, professors who can pick up the phone and call a former student or a colleague and say “You need to hire this person” (or-- “I’m writing a recommendation for a fellowship and she’s fantastic”.)
You do not have the luxury of worrying about what happens ten years from now or law school or getting a Truman/Marshall. You just don’t.
What you DO have-- like I said, smart, hard-working and tenacious.
Things like Truman/Marshall, Peace Corps- these are competitive. You can do everything right for four years and still come up dry. But that doesn’t mean your life is over- it just means you need a solid plan B.
Put the specialized major aside for now-- I know people at the UN, World Bank, IMF, and you’d be stunned by how varied their degrees are- history, languages, economics, agronomy, geology, oceanography, literature, political science. There are lots of different paths to one of the many careers you are describing, and if you cut the salami too thin right now, you’re going to miss out on many great opportunities.
And don’t over-value the presence of international students on campus. My own kids went to colleges which had very high percentages of international students. To my great surprise- there was VERY little engagement. The wealthy international students did what wealthy students in the US do when they get to college- and if you weren’t part of the “go into the nearest city and eat in expensive restaurants and clubs and concert scene” (my kids were not) then you were just not going to get their “international perspective” up close. And the not-wealthy international students hung out with other kids from their country (many of whom they already knew from elite academic competitions or summer programs), cooked for each other in the dorm kitchens, and studied together. Many of them were being funded by their home governments and knew they were going back immediately after graduating, so the incentives to make “local” friends were pretty meager.
You are more likely to have a roommate from China or Ghana or Pakistan at a college with a smaller international population- because those kids won’t know ANYONE on campus from home and will be thrilled to make a friend!
Yes, finances are a consideration, but your suggestions seem flawed. Going oos will be absurdly expensive, travel and healthcare alone (my family’s doesn’t transfer), is already thousands of dollars.
And you misunderstand. I have safeties, I have targets, and they’re all in-state. I posted on chance me because my family is not supportive and I have no real concept of what my shot at some of these schools is. Yes I’ve done the research, and I know of the schools you listed, they just aren’t right for me.
I also want to clarify that I meant a top tier research university with a history of prestigious fellowships and top graduate outcomes that is also liberal arts oriented. Most colleges aren’t like this. I’ve spoken to many faculty and have experience with a variety of “average colleges”, none of which have anything close to the level of academic intensity and breadth of excellence that I’m searching for.
Of course it hurts, but that’s not a valid reason to stop. I’m aware that they likely won’t be affordable first year, but I plan on contacting the AOs and pleading my case, then asking them to keep my name in mind for when I apply again next year. I will not give up so easily, I’m not applying to a prestigious school for the name, I’m applying because I know I have the potential to massively improve society if someone decides I’m worthy of an investment. Not that I won’t pursue my dreams regardless, I’ll just have a better shot at a school with existing connections and opportunities.
Of course I’ll find motivated students at a local school, and I’ve never implied otherwise. That just isn’t what I’m looking for. If I’m not consistently challenged and motivated, I get lazy. I’ve been surrounded by some of the brightest students in the country at a nationally ranked public high school, and I don’t want anything less for college. My peers are a part of what inspires me to work as hard as I do and achieve beyond the bare minimum. I have enough knowledge of my state school to know that this environment doesn’t exist there to anywhere near the degree I described. My peers who do attend are not intellectually stimulated, which is incredibly important to me in all of my pursuits.
Your criteria are very strange, because name brand and recognizable universities are expensive by nature. The schools where professors can write that type of letter to a T10 law or grad school and be taken seriously are the very schools which I am considering. What you are suggesting simply doesn’t exist in any financially accessible medium.
Moving beyond this fallacy, I think that your suggestions, while well-intentioned and much appreciated, have no relevance to me or my college journey.
My dreams aren’t up for negotiation. I will achieve these things. I will get that fellowship no matter where I go to college. Telling a 17 year old to give up on everything she’s ever wanted isn’t good advice, and I do have that luxury because I will make those things happen no matter what. If my family can get refugee visas to come to the US, escape generations of anti-semitism and extreme poverty, I can handle getting into grad school. I’m not someone who will take this advice lying down, because I can’t not consider it. Your instructions may apply to someone who is shotgunning or whose lofty dreams are just resume padding, but I’m 500% genuine and not willing to “not worry about what happens 10 years from now”.
It’s great that you know people from a variety of majors, but do you know people who work for the UN and went to community college and a no name grad school? No, I didn’t think so, because that’s not how getting a job there works. Of course you are right that my dreams are competitive, but if that were to discourage me it would mean I didn’t really want it in the first place.
As for the international population, sure cliques will form regardless, but I have a bit of a reputation for being able to make friends with anyone. I’m sure that you are correct, but fewer international students just means fewer diverse perspectives when I do interact with them. And at the end of the day, if the only thing my school lacks is international students, I will find that elsewhere. I won’t let a shoddy ratio distract me from my priorities.
Thank you again for your advice! I’m sure I came off quite harsh, and that isn’t because I’m not grateful for your input. I just noticed that you seem to be very dismissive of the things which I hold dearest. My future career is my baby and my (granted, likely very skewed) perception of my own potential is what keeps me shooting that high. I wish you nothing but success, and can only hope that no one ever tells you to give up on whatever it is that gets you out of bed every morning.