Please chance me for the top universities (Ivys, Duke, Amherst)

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>Hey everyone. I just finished my chance thread, and I'd really appreciate some oppinions. Thank you! :)</p>

<p>Universities:
All the Ivy league Schools
Duke
Amherst
A lot of other top 100 unis.</p>

<p>Objective:
Sat I: 2200 (self-studied): Math (720), CR (730), Writing (750)
Sat II (self-studied): US History (750), Spanish (740)
GPA (in my country, the rating system is different)
9th grade: 90% (I lived with 7 persons in the same apartament - 2 of them were drunkards -_-, it was a horrible experience)
10: 96%
11:97%
12: 97%
Rank: No rank available.
AP (all self-studied): Macroeconomics (5), microeconomics (5), psychology (5), Spanish Language (5), US History (5), US Gouvernment and Politics (5)
Course Load: We can't chose our course loads, we have ''profiles'', and every profile has a specific course load.</p>

<p>Olymphiads (those are competition for specific subjects)
English Olymphiad:
Participated all for years: 9th grade - reached district level in, 10th grade - 1st place on district level , reached national level (6th place), 11th grade - 1st place on district level, reached national level )5th place), 12th grade - 1st place on district level, reached national level (fifth place).
Psychology Olymphiad - 1st place on district level, reached national level where I got the 3rd place
Economy Olymphiad - 3rd place on district level</p>

<p>Subjective:</p>

<p>Extracurricurals:
In my country, ECs are not important at all, and do not play a role in college-level admission. However, I have quite a few. I did them even though most of my mates were not interested, which made it really hard to find members.</p>

<p>Tennis (since 10th grade)
Piano (since 9th grade)
Student council (president 2 years)
Volunteering Club (founder and president, 3 years, very involved in it, organised a lot activities)
English Club (founder and president, 3 years, very involved)
Chess (for fun) : since 7th grade
Summer activities: self-thought Spanish, tennis, self-studied for APs and SATs, a few volunteering activities, worked as a translator (online), took care of my sisters.
Essays: 9/10
Teacher Recommendations: 9/10, really good, they pointed out that I managed to overcome my bad situation and managed to become an exceptional student.</p>

<p>Other:
Country: Few application in America (a few hundreds)
Ethnicity: White
Gender: Male
Income: (I'm poor)
The income of my family was lower than the average in my country (the average income per family here is about 800 dollars per month). I managed to help my family rise ''above the average'' by increasing the income of my family starting from the 10th grade thanks to a few good self-investments (the way I make money doesn't require a special skill, it requires time and an initial investment). However, the profits come from online sources, so I don't know how I'll prove that they were my profits... :(
Hooks: Being poor, I guess? I managed to do a lot even thought everything was against me... If my father took a graduated a ''college'' in my country, can I be considered a first generation student? Our education system is quite different... I'm also from a country that sends very few students in the US, so the universities might want me for ''cultural diversity''.</p>

<p>I know that I'm like ''the average student'' at the top universities, but I think I have something that makes me unique: my situation. Even though I live in a corupt, poor, country <em>and most of my mates use drugs/smoke&drink</em>, and I am poor myself, I managed to overcome all this by myself and become a good student, all this while trying to make the world around me a better place. Me and my teachers emphasized that, so how much is this going to help me? Also, I can take the SAT again and I'm almost sure I can take a 2250, as the last time I had a problem and it decreased my score</p>

<p>I would also really appreciate advices, as my cousin is going to apply for college in US too, in a few years, and she could learn a lot from you guys. Thanks, and sorry for the mistakes, I'm in a hurry...</p>

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<p>I had nearly the exact same stats and got into duke, NU, and cornell. I did have a URM hook and was domestic however. I do think that if you apply to enough top schools you should have a shot. Best of luck</p>

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<p>Overall, you seem to lack purpose, based on your self-presentation here. What motivates you? (besides wanting to come to the US for college?) What will be your goal once you do arrive in the US? What makes you an interesting classmate? Why should a college admissions officer expect you to become a leader in your field, instead of just “good enough” to earn a decent living?</p>

<p>You seem to spend a whole lot of time self-studying for academics beyond your high school curriculum, without being particularly exceptional at any of them. (International students admitted to these universities on academic grounds win prizes in international olympiads or do graduate-level work while in high school.) Beyond academics, you list a slew of different ECs, which gives the impression that you were not particularly invested in any of them. “Jack of all trades, Master of none.”</p>

<p>You also claim that you have tried to make the world around you a better place’. This would be interesting but it’s not the impression I got from your presentation here. Self-studying for AP exams doesn’t make the world a better place. Participating in academic olympiads doesn’t make the world a better place. Playing tennis or piano or chess won’t make the world a better place. If you really do care to make the world a better place, it’s not obvious from what you have written at all.</p>

<p>I am even struggling to believe your “overcoming poverty” story. You certainly seem to have access to more resources than most poor people. I grew up “working class” in a first-world country and I could not have afforded to play tennis (tennis court access is too expensive) or play the piano (where would I have found a piano?). Paying for 6 AP exams would have been such a stretch that that would have never occured to me either. “Poor” to me means struggling to afford food and housing. The fact that you prioritized playing tennis and running an English club over working a job to earn more money shows to me that money couldn’t have been that big of an issue.</p>

<p>Long story short: Think carefully how you want to present yourself on your college applications.</p>

<p>

Not under the normal definition of a first-generation college student. </p>

<p>

The opposite of a hook for an international appliant…</p>

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<p>(deleted)</p>

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<p>First, I want to thank you guys for your replies.</p>

<p>b@r!um, I guess my presentation is not good enough to represent me. I took care of the ‘‘what motivates me’’ issue in my essays, and my teachers emphasised that.
I am quite good at psychology (second place, national level) and english (third place, national level). About the ECs, I really showed interest in the english and volunteering club (spent 4+ hours a week for 3 years).
When I said that I tried to make the world a better place, I meant that I was really active in my community: I fought discrimination (really important for me), coruption, tutored for free, organised ‘‘green’’ actions, helped a local school organise different cultural activities, fundraised, did a lot of volunteering. </p>

<p>I could afford to play tennis because I knew the guy who has the court, so I had to pay less, and I paid from my money, not from my parents’. We got a free piano from my fathers’ friend (it’s a bad, old piano), we could have never afforded one. I also paid for the APs myself, my parents couldn’t. And while I ran the clubs, I also worked as a translator and invested my money something that would get me profits later. In my country, there are very few job opportunities for teenegers, because there are a lot of people who have a college diploma but are unemployed and are looking for a job (and they are not picky). My parents could barely afford to buy me the things needed for high school (they borrowed money from friends), and in the 9th grade I lived with 7 persons in 4 rooms (2 bedrooms), and 2 of the persons were ‘‘drunkwards’’. I should also note that untill the age of 8, I lived in 1 room (yes, 1 room, not 1 bedroom) with 3 other persons. My parents have a lot of Ioans, and most of their profits go in these Ioans (and our income is anyway below the average).</p>

<p>There one thing I’d like to ask you, if you’re willing to help. Well, I’m gay, and in my town, 95% of the people are homphobic, and I mean really really homophobic. Even in schools, the teachers make jokes about being gay. I guess this means I’m a ‘‘minority’’? Would it be wise to make an essay abouy how this determened me to fight (every kind of) discrimination?</p>

<p>Thanks a whole lot for your reply again. :)</p>

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<p>Thanks for elaborating! I know I was harsh but I didn’t mean to attack you. I just wanted show you how your ‘chances’ thread read to other people. I did that with the hope that you’ll avoid those pitfalls on your actual college application. (For example, if you are going with the “overcoming poverty” and “fighting discrimination” themes, you’d do well to emphasize your social engagement and your money-related creativity + independence, and to de-emphasize your other hobbies. You might even choose not to report some hobbies at all. For example, reporting tennis and piano as hobbies somewhat undermines your poverty story without further explanation.)</p>

<p>

Well, the term “minority” has a very specific definition in college admissions circles. Colleges report the ethnic make-up of their student body, the percentage of Pell Grant recipients (as a proxy for low income) and maybe the percentage of first-generaton college students as a measure of their socioeconomic diversity. There’s no formal measure of gender/sexuality-related diversity. Homosexuality has become so accepted in the US (at least the liberal parts of the US, where the super-selective universities are located and draw most of their students from) that you probably wouldn’t get a “disadvantaged+underrepresented minority bump” to your application just for disclosing your sexual orientation. </p>

<p>That being said, you could use your sexual orientation to illustrate some of the adversity you have faced and to motivate your social interests. It could make for a very powerful essay and help you in that way. You could also use your economic/financial story for that purpose. Try writing several essays and see which one has the biggest impact on the readers. It’s too bad that you only get one short essay to tell your story. </p>

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<p>^It’s very true that being gay is so accepted nowadays in the US but IF you live in a country that has homophobic laws (or anywhere where you had to hide who you are because you could be expelled, beat up, or verbally assaulted, let alone arrested for being, or on suspicions of being, gay), this is definitely something you want to mention if only in the “additional information” section of the CommonApp.
I agree with b@r!um that your resourcefulness at overcoming poverty in doing all these activities will be especially important, rather than just listing the activities themselves (do list them, but within the framework of showing your ability to overcome obstacles creatively and with considerable pluck and talent).
Most US colleges welcome gay students but some especially, with varying degrees of selectivity from Vassar to Elmhurst. NYU housing has become gender-neutral BTW. You want to avoid conservative Christian colleges (Pepperdine, Grove City, Wheaton-IL…); if the college is in the Bible belt, you may want to ask on this forum what’s the situation wrt dating, attitudes, etc.</p>

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<p>Sorry for replying so late, but I had internet issues…</p>

<p>b@r!um, I understand, I’ll make sure not to make my application </p>

<p>MYOS1634, I don’t know about any ‘‘written’’ homophobic law, but I am certainly sure that at least 95% of the people I know or I ever met are extremely homophobic. Most of them are willing to beat up, verbally asault, etc. the gay people, and some of them even support the idea of a ‘‘death penality’’ for being gay. Teachers included (I am sure about all my teachers). My parents are like that too, if that counts… My high school experience was a ‘‘psychological torture’’ as my class mates suspected me of being gay (for some reason)… To be quick, they bullied me for that (the adults couldn’t do anything about that). Should I mention this in my application, or am I going to be seen as ‘‘weak’’ if I do so? These are top colleges, so I think they are looking for people with strong personalities, not for bullied kids. Or am I wrong? :-?</p>

<p>Well, thanks anyway for your posts, guys, you are great. Your replies will help me a lot. </p>

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<p>Try to write about how these hardships have affected you and shaped your life. Inform the colleges about you self studying the SAT, to show them how motivated you are. Other than that your stats are very good and so are your EC’s. Good luck :)</p>

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<p>b@r!um mentioned that I look like a person who studies a whole lot, but that’s not what I’d like to emphasize. Is it actually bad that I have so many self-studied APs? I mean, I took them in a foreign country (but someone helped me with money)… Could that give the impression that I’m not actually poor? I don’t know what to believe anymore. :(</p>

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<p>Work in to your essays that someone helped you with money to take the AP tests. Also how you took the piano lessons.</p>

<p>Definitely speak about how you struggle for justice as a gay person in a homophobic environment. You could have an extremely compelling application. Heck, your responses here make for a compelling application.</p>

<p>Don’t worry about looking weak (and I reckon most Americans who are told the environment you grew up in would say you are brave and strong). Be truthful. Say all about yourself, what you really believe in, what you are willing to fight for. Let your passion show through. Don’t be afraid to talk about your struggles. The strongest steel is forged through fire. In the US, passion, guttiness/grittiness/tenacity, and character win the day more often than not.</p>

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<p>The environment you describe is highly homophobic and should appear somewhere in your application. In addition, I bet there are homophobic laws in your country, too. You can look for news examples that you can cite as proof.
It’s incredible how far, how fast the US has come. It wasn’t so long ago that in some states the police could burst into people’s houses when they were suspected of being gay (yes, it happened for real) or could be arrested.Such ideas and actions would seem despicable to many Americans today and even very conservative young people wouldn’t condone them. I just saw the Normal Heart and the idea gays were “sick” and worthless appears clearly (well, that and the number of deaths.)
By the way, American colleges will not expect you to have taken risks such as those you describe (beatings, death) to defend your right to exist. Sometimes it’s smarter to know when to lay low in order to come back strong. You will not seem weak because you were bullied. Although that shouldn’t be the key part in your story, it can appear when you describe the situation in your country or city - that you’ve been severely bullied because others suspected you of being gay.
Standing up for your rights as a teenager who’s alone may well be foolish and going to the US may actually give you more amunition to fight discrimination once you return (because you’ll be marked as “different” from your stay in the US). You could make it a goal to lobby the US for gay rights in other countries, for instance. Or you don’t have to be a gay advocate. You can defend any other cause, because you’re not just gay and like all people you have passions and hobbies and causes that have nothing to do with who you fall in love with.
In the meanwhile you can watch Modern Family and Glee, and find comfort & laughter there.
Otherwise, you sound like an amazing applicant who’s made the most of the resources available.
Have your Guidance Counselor or HeadTeacher describe your financial/economic circumstances since this will be crucial.</p>

<p>Oh, just so you know, fear of gay people is irrational but it does exist everywhere, even in the US (not on college campuses and most cities though). And in US high schools, there was for a long time girls who’d pretend to go out with guys just so they’d be left alone instead of being taunted. (There was even a name for this : “a beard”.) Violence targeting gay people, especially in boys/men, can (often) be linked to being closeted. For these criminals, beating gay men is like beating that gay part inside of them that won’t go away. They found this during a psychological test with pictures that had nothing to do with figuring this out, BTW.
Finally, men whose ego is healthy don’t fear gay men, in fact their logical reaction veers toward the “cool, less competition for me to score with that woman”. So, being homophobic may be what you’ve grown with, but it isn’t acceptable and it isn’t “natural”. It is cultural and it can change.</p>

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<p>PurpleTitan, the thing is that I didn’t actually strugle for justice. I only fought discrimination, but I never tried to fight homophobia, because I don’t think that would be possible in my situation… Nobody would join my cause if I’d try to do that. I guess that’s a weakness too? :l Anyway, thank you for your reply.</p>

<p>MYOS1634, a lot of incredible poeple apply the top schools and some of them are really ‘‘special’’. I’ve just realised that I’m not <em>that</em> special compared to them, so my chances seem really slim. Thanks a lot for your support, I can see that you put quite some effort into your posts.</p>

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<p>N0body: no one expects you to fight homophobia as a teenager in a homophobic country where that could get you killed. Attitudes have changed so quickly in the US that most teenagers don’t actually know what it’s like to live where you can get beaten up simply because you’re suspected of being gay. (When I went to college, there was a young man in a coma whose head was bashed in due to that suspicion; part of it was likely done by closeted young men. Such a behavior would be unthinkable in a college town nowadays. Unthinkable, as in, most kids 20 and under have no concept about it being a real risk for them, to be “mistaken” for gay as resulting in direct violence against them, let alone “being” gay resulting in violence on a college town street. Homophobia exists, especially in conservative religious communities, but it doesn’t result in violence).
This being said, yes lots of incredible people apply to top schools, so you cannot just apply to top schools. Apply to a variety of schools, including Berea and anywhere from Elmhurst to Oberlin and the Ivies.</p>

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<p>I forgot to update, so I’ll do that now: I retook the SAT I and I got a 2350 (M:800, CR:750, WR:800). I was quite lucky that day. :)</p>

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<p>It takes more than luck for a non native speaker to reach a score 99.5%+ Americansmm don’t reach. But it’s very good for you. CONGRATULATIONS !!!</p>

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<p>Give the top schools a shot, but also lesser-known LACs and Berea.</p>