Please help a soon-to-be veteran transition to college (Long read)

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Hello! After scouring the internet for information about which path to follow in my near future, I read a few threads here and it seems a lot of people here really know their stuff. So I decided to create an account and ask for some assistance, hoping someone here will help me get on the right path.</p>

<p>Anyway, I've been in the Air Force for the last 7 years, working as a Bio-medical Equipment Technician. Long story short: I'll have to get out next July instead of reenlisting like I had planned. I decided to go to college using the GI Bill, which will cover full tuition for any public school in a state I become a resident of, or up to $19K if I go to a private school or a public school as an out of state student. I'll also get a housing stipend based on the cost of living on the area the school I decide to attend is located. After a lot of research, I've come up with two plans of action:</p>

<p>1)Apply as a transfer student to my dream Tech-oriented schools (Stanford, MIT, Harvard (?), Cornell (?)) and hope that by some miracle I get accepted into one of them. And if not, move to California to work there and become a state resident, so that the next round of admissions I can apply to the UC schools (I missed the deadline), which seem to be well regarded in the engineering field as well.</p>

<p>2)Same as above, but also apply for other, seemingly well-regarded public schools not in California (GTech, Rutgers, UIUC, etc...). Once again, move to CA if I don't get into any of those</p>

<p>Now a bit of info about me. I just found out I won't be staying in back in August. And since I never thought about college, I've had to learn everything about applying since then. It's been a hell of a scramble these past few months, but I managed to get a few things done:</p>

<p>-Fulfilled all the requirements needed to obtain an Associate of Applied Science in Bio-medical Engineering Technology by taking four CLEPs and one DSST to meet all my general requirements. Turns out this may be useless (see below)</p>

<p>-Took the SAT and Subject tests in Math II and Physics. Still waiting for the SAT results, but I got 520 in Math and 560 in Physics. Pretty crap scores, but considering I never took any math in high school higher than Algebra 2 and I don't think I've taken Physics either, they're not too bad. I don't think the schools will be too sympathetic, though. Not to mention I only had about a week and a half to study for both tests, which were on the same day. Also, I've been out of school for a long time, so cut me some slack :(</p>

<p>-Calculated the cost of living for multiple schools to see which ones I could afford to live in with the housing stipend (see below)</p>

<p>So why do I say the AAS may be useless? it seems a lot of schools won't take credits from either military education, which comprises the bulk of my degree's core, or from CLEP tests. Except for the UC schools, which will take the CLEPs as make-up credit for any high school prerequisites not met. Better than nothing, I guess. Unfortunately, since I have the degree (even if it is worthless), I have no choice but to apply as a transfer.</p>

<p>You may be wondering why I'm gonna apply to elite schools with such poor preparation. Well, it seems that once schools know you will be using the GI Bill, they basically see that as guaranteed tuition money, so they may be more willing to welcome you. That could explain the occasional 1500 SAT tester getting into Stanford. That, or elite athletes. But hey, a man can dream, right? </p>

<p>Also, in an ironic twist, if I were to get into Stanford (or anywhere in CA, really), or MIT, or Harvard, I would be making so much money off of the housing stipend it's ridiculous. I calculated the cost, and I could basically rent an apartment on-campus at Stanford and still have $1300 left over every month! Like I said above, this is all due to the cost of living at the school's zip code. Unfortunately, the situation would be a lot bleaker at most public schools, the worst being UIUC, where I would have to pony up $25 each month just to afford to live at the worst dorms. It also looks like more exclusive schools seem to have a lot more grant money they can give to their students, which I'm hoping I could qualify for, being a born and raised Colombian immigrant, to cover the remainder of the tuition that the GI Bill won't, the cap being $19K and all.</p>

<p>That housing stipend difference, though, is really the reason why I would be willing to pass up going to GTech and instead moving to CA for a year. That, and the fact that once I become a state resident tuition is fully covered. that could mean a full-ride to Berkeley AND tons of housing money! and It would give me more time to prepare a more competitive application to make sure I get into at least one of the UC schools. However, I would have to worry about surviving somehow until fall of 2015, which is a long ways off. And I'm 26, so I'm already way behind the power curve.</p>

<p>The reason why I'm posting this in the Engineering board is because that's my aim. I've always been fascinated by technology and would love to become an Engineer in the robotics/teleoperation/teleprescence fields. And even though I've never been particularly good at Math, I think I've learned in the last few months that it's not so much due to an innate inability to understand it, but a lack of motivation towards mastering it. And I am willing to try to overcome that, if that's what it takes.</p>

<p>So I guess it's time for the question round. Here we go:</p>

<p>1) Would a CE with a minor in robotics be more suited for my aspirations, or should I be looking more into EE, because of the teleoperation/teleprescence part? What other possible degree would you suggest?</p>

<p>2) What degree would give me the most options job-wise when it comes to just working in the technology field in general? I'm leaning towards CE, but it seems CS may be more lucrative. I thought for a long time about ME, because of robotics and all, but I've heard it's tough for them to find jobs. At least tougher than the other two.</p>

<p>3)Besides the ones listed below, which schools do you think would suit my goals? I narrowed my list down to the following:</p>

<p>Public:
-Rutgers University-New Brunswick
-University of Texas-Austin
-University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
-Georgia Tech
-University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign</p>

<p>Eliminated Purdue University, Virginia Tech and University of Maryland-College Park, due to them being worse schools (not by much), being too expensive to live at, or both</p>

<p>Private (Dream) Schools:
-Stanford University
-MIT
-Harvard
-Harvey Mudd (wildcard)
-Cornell</p>

<p>Eliminated Carnegie Mellon and The Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology once again because of them being slightly worse schools (not by much), being too expensive to live at, or both. Thought about adding CalTech and Stevens Institute of Technology because of both giving me a large housing stipend, and CalTech for being a pretty good school.</p>

<p>Finally, even if you don't have any suggestions, thank you for reading my insanely long first post. But if you do have some helpful insight, it would mean the world to me! thanks again!</p>

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<p>If you have already taken a significant number of college courses, then you would need to apply as a transfer student after completing the frosh/soph courses for your major. Be aware that some of the schools you mention admit very few transfer students.</p>

<p>If this applies to you, then you may want to consider moving to a place where there are good community colleges that will prepare you to transfer to the state universities that you are interested in. But be sure to check the state’s residency rules for college tuition first – often there is a one year period between moving there and changing driver’s license etc. and being able to pay in-state tuition.</p>

<p>For example, if you are interested in state universities in California (Berkeley, San Jose State, Cal Poly, …), consider moving to where you can attend a community college with good coverage of preparatory courses for these schools (see [Welcome</a> to ASSIST](<a href=“http://www.assist.org%5DWelcome”>http://www.assist.org) for California community colleges and state universities; Laney and Diablo Valley are good ones if you are targeting Berkeley CS).</p>

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<p>You need to find a community college and start taking the Calc/Physics/Chemistry series. I don’t think anyone is going to even consider you as a transfer student without any college. And I agree with you (as an air force vet that had the same type of degree as you), that degree is useless. You would probably have to get in on your high school record.</p>

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<p>So what is your home state?</p>

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<p>From one AF vet to another - given your test scores, you’re being totally unrealistic about which schools will accept you. You’re not going be accepted at the schools you listed just because you can pay full-fare. Still, there are plenty of other schools that will be happy to accept you.</p>

<p>I can see you getting into a CSU. The only way you’ll get into a UC is if you go to a community college and do very well.</p>

<p>I didn’t even bother submitting my Community College of the Air Force credits to the one school (University of Alaska, Fairbanks) I applied to.</p>

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<p>I completely agree with @simba9, you need to prove that you can do the work at the level of the schools you aspire to. Remember the most selective engineering schools also expect a great deal from their students. There is a good reason that the “top” schools are selective, they want to make sure that the students they accept are able to handle the workload in their engineering curriculum. Admitting someone who is not projected to succeed is not doing anyone any favors. </p>

<p>I know a student who had GI bill benefits but started at a Community College, then got into UIUC Engineering and was able to use the GI bill to pay for the last 2 years of college at UIUC plus a Masters degree.</p>

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<p>MIT, etc. are out of your reach. Money isn’t the deciding factor at all with them as they have large endowments; high test scores, taking a challenging path in high school and getting a high GPA while doing so is what they look at. Cal Poly admits by test scores and GPA and your scores are quite low for there. CA UCs are also quite competitive. YOu do need to set your sights more realistically.</p>

<p>Robotics is a good field right now and may be the best suited for you.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone for your helpful insight. To be honest, the main reason why I narrowed down my choices to these schools is because those are the names that you hear whenever you look into going to a “good engineering school” Like I mentioned, I have had literally less than six months to figure out the whole college application process, taking the SAT and subject tests, getting my AAS degree, etc. And I never looked into going to college before, at all. Not even back in high school. So it has been a pretty monumental task. Unfortunately, I don’t think I have had enough time to figure out things as well as I think I should, but I have no choice.</p>

<p>With that said, I got a few more questions as a result of the info gathered from your replies:</p>

<p>If my CCAF degree is worthless as far as credit transfer goes, wouldn’t I then be better off trying to apply as a freshman, since acceptance rates for freshmen are a lot higher than for transfer students? Can I still apply as a freshman? I don’t really mind starting over, since I think that would prepare me even better for a career as an engineer, rather than trying to piece something together from the credits I already have, if any.</p>

<p>Also, what are some less exclusive, but still well-regarded schools that I could realistically expect to be admitted to and that could maybe enable me to transfer into any of my choice schools in the future? If I’m insisting on getting into a good school, it’s because the GI Bill is more a pot of “months” rather than money. So whether I study for a year at a crappy school than only costs $1000 per year, or one that will require up to the $19K a year cap, I’ll still be down 9 months out of the 36 I have, so it would be a big waste, even if it is a lot easier for me to go to a small school.</p>

<p>And finally, should I just take a year off and try to improve my scores, maybe take some remedial courses or something and do some EC stuff? What can I do realistically to improve my chances of getting into any of my choice schools?</p>

<p>Thanks again for taking some time to help me out. And before I forget, here are a few more bits of info about me that might help to paint a clearer picture:</p>

<p>-graduated with a 3.48, weighted (whatever that means). Not bad, but not great either.</p>

<p>-no extracurricular activities because I moved a lot, which turned me into an introvert. Not a military brat, just an unstable childhood, unfortunately. Most likely literally went to a dozen different schools from 1st to 12th grade (Between Colombia and the US), but I lost count.</p>

<p>-I like drawing and I have been told I’m pretty good. Had a picture I made in 9th grade hung up somewhere in the admin area of that school,so I guess I can’t be that bad. But I wouldn’t call myself amazing or anything. I like making things, hence why I want to get into robotics. Can I use my passion and skills with art in some way?</p>

<p>-My family lives in Denver, but I became a Florida resident when I was stationed there a few years ago. Any good schools I could get into over there would be very convenient.</p>

<p>-I won’t get my SAT test results until February, since the test I took back in December will actually be marked as registered for the January test date. I was able to take it so early because I’m stationed in England at the moment.</p>

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<p>Pretty much any ABET accredited engineering program is a solid choice. If you want to look at private technical institutes, look at the smaller [Association</a> of Independent Technological Universities: AITU](<a href=“http://theaitu.org%5DAssociation”>http://theaitu.org) schools. They give some good financial aid packages and participate in the Yellow Ribbon program. Otherwise, look at the large public universities in your state(s) of residence. They don’t have to be the flagship: for Florida, look into University of Central Florida as well as University of Florida or Florida State University.</p>

<p>Good Luck</p>

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<p>I’m not a big fan of Florida State engineering. They share a school with FAMU and it isn’t on campus. I have several friends that graduated from there and weren’t too impressed.</p>

<p>Why not Colorado School of Mines? (seeing as your family lives in Denver). Using your GI Bill, you will automatically get instate tuition, they are very veteran friendly (director of admissions is a vet) and are a small technical school. They have a robotics club and robotics research group. The housing stipend is ~1600 as well.</p>

<p>Just to reinforce what xraymancs said, for an undergraduate degree, the idea of “prestige” at an engineering school is a bit overemphasized.</p>

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<p>I agree with noleguy33. From what I know, unless you want to get into academia, prestige of your engineering school doesn’t matter much if at all. What employers care about is work and research experience especially in teams.</p>

<p>You may want to take a look at the University of Florida. In US News, they are ranked 49 overall while they are also ranked 38 in graduate engineering programs. That’s nothing to scoff at. Of the Florida universities, I’d say that’d be your best bet if you want a quality education. In 2013-2014’s school year, in-state tuition is $6,263.</p>

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<p>Many colleges disqualify you from frosh admission if you have any college credit, or more than a certain amount of college credit, after high school graduation. Check each college’s web site for its rules. For such colleges, you would have to start at community college and then apply as a transfer student. This is not necessarily a bad option, as community college can be less expensive, and a good record at community college may give you more options of colleges to transfer to than you have as a frosh applicant based on your high school record, if you high school record is not that great.</p>

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<p>Florida A&M also appears to cost less, and may have more scholarship availability – i.e. a potentially cheaper way to get the same engineering education as at Florida State.</p>

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<p>One last thing, a lot of states (20 I believe) give instate tuition to veterans.</p>

<p>Here is a list-</p>

<p>[In-State</a> Tuition](<a href=“http://www.studentveterans.org/what-we-do/in-state-tuition.html]In-State”>http://www.studentveterans.org/what-we-do/in-state-tuition.html)</p>

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<p>I would contact your AF college or college enrollment counselor on base (I was in the Navy but I’m sure there is something similar) and find out where your college credits transfer the MOST in STATES you are willing to attend. It’s not worthless as I am sure your GE stuff will transfer everywhere. That means you can just concentrate on your technical classes. </p>

<p>You absolutely have to have the fundamentals. I just started as a university transfer right out service and I got creamed last semester. I even had calculus and physics background but years ago since I last used it.</p>

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<p>Be careful listening to the recommendation of the Air Force education centers. They will direct you to a bunch of “military friendly” schools that just so happen to have the same tuition as the max GI Bill. Your choice of school should be about job placement, not transfer credit.</p>

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<p>Considering the OP wants an ABET engineering degree I doubt that would be the case. </p>

<p>I was referring to the GE credits to minimize the extra classes for a degree. Even different schools in the same state have different requirements.</p>

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<p>Apparently there’s something called the AU-ABC program, where the CCAF partners with certain colleges to accept CCAF credits. It still doesn’t seem to add much value to the OP’s AAS degree, but it may be worth something. Here’s a 3 year old list of participating schools. </p>

<p>[AU-ABC</a> schools (the official list, if anyone is interested)](<a href=“DegreeInfo”>DegreeInfo)</p>

<p>Most are crap schools, but places like Bowling Green, Oklahoma, Old Dominion, and Embry-Riddle are perfectly acceptable.</p>

<p>I was in the AF ages ago, so things may have changed. I don’t remember the CCSF offering much, if anything, in the way of general education credits. Everything was very specialized, almost like a trade school.</p>

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<p>CCAF’s catalog is here: [CCAF</a> 2014-2016 Catalog](<a href=“http://www.au.af.mil/au/barnes/ccaf/catalog/2014cat/index.asp]CCAF”>http://www.au.af.mil/au/barnes/ccaf/catalog/2014cat/index.asp)</p>

<p>It looks like only a few courses in geography and history might be accepted to fulfill humanities and social studies breadth requirements in an engineering degree program.</p>

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<p>I thought about Colorado School of Mines. Seems like a decent choice, but I originally discounted it thinking its engineering program might be more focused on earth sciences, like petroleum engineering or geology. If they have a robotics program, though, I think I’ll add it to the list. Florida State sounds good too, but I think the BAH rate for that area was a little low. Haven’t checked what the cost of living on campus is, though, so the BAH rate might not matter so much.</p>

<p>I also went on to US News to look up some more schools. I noticed that some of them are ranked separately because they don’t offer doctorates. I know some, like Harvey Mudd and Rose-Hulman, are pretty good, but I don’t know about the rest. How do the schools on that list compare to national universities as far as the quality of their programs? I ask because Santa Clara University caught my eye on that list. It has a decent acceptance rate, participates in the Yellow Ribbon program and it looks to be well-situated as far as job prospects go, or if I manage to transfer to UC Berkeley in the future. I don’t know how good their engineering programs are, but they do have a five year BS-MS, which is nice. Would they be a good,realistic choice for me to go with?</p>

<p>And if I seem like I’m insisting on prestigious schools, it’s because I was under the impression that prestige was one thing employers cared about a lot. If that isn’t the case, then what do they tend to look for during the hiring process?</p>

<p>And someone mentioned the AU-ABC program, but those schools don’t sound very good at all.</p>

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<p>School prestige matters less in engineering and CS than in some other fields, like investment banking and management consulting. Also, to the extent that school prestige matters, it is the reputation of the engineering majors at the school that matters in terms of attracting non-local employers to visit the career center. School prestige in engineering and CS fades in importance after some years of work experience.</p>

<p>But note that much hiring is local or regional due to convenience, and large schools are often more attractive to recruit at. In Silicon Valley computer companies, you are more likely to find San Jose State graduates than Dartmouth graduates, for example.</p>