Please help match/chance rising senior for PPE/Economics!

Based on my very fallible estimation, these are my guesses as to what your chances for admission might be at the colleges on your list. And for the schools on the Low Probability list, it is nothing to do with the quality of your application, but the fact that there is so much demand by highly-qualified students for these schools that admission is certainly possible, but that these schools turn away far more qualified applicants than they accept.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • UMBC

Likely (60-79%)

  • UMD

Toss-Up (40-59%)

Lower Probability (20-39%)

Low Probability (less than 20%)

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I would like an urban college or a large suburban college (basically as long as it’s not in the middle of nowhere), co-ed, medium to fairly large size, definitely a school that will push my academic horizons and has a good program/reputation, good social scene, and within 6 hours drive.
I’m open to any suggestions, so feel free give any suggestions.
In terms of LORs, I could get one from my physics teacher, but it might not be as good as some other teachers in humanities/music. Is that trade off worth it? Thanks for your help!

Dickinson has great international focus and language programs. They also have an international business and management major, which is among their most popular choices. There is a thriving music program where you could continue flute. The school is known for their study abroad programs as well.
You should definitely consider applying for their new merit scholarship for Maryland students -40k per year! You would be a strong candidate. Reynolds Leadership Scholar Program | Dickinson College

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That’s awesome, I’ll definitely look into it. Thanks!

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I put them in my list - I think Pitt - and apply early as they are rolling - fits with your list and would be a safety. I listed a few more in my message.

UMD is very well thought of - so unless you apply to a W&L and win the Johnson scholar, I would say the “elite” school money is not worth it. That’s me. That said, W&L is very rural - and you don’t appear to want that. It’s also small.

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Take W&M off - I would not say it’s urban or large suburban.

Syracuse, Rochster could work - maybe a bit far.

Denver would be a solid choice - but - it’s within 6 hours flying.

I just think Pitt fits very well with what you want and is a safety if you apply early. Go check it out.

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As you had mentioned looking into liberal arts colleges I had previous mentioned Dickinson and also thought of Juniata as a possibility. But neither one will qualify as medium to large.

Juniata (PA ): The international focus in the politics department requires at least a semester abroad. There are a number of Fulbright scholars coming out of this program as well as acceptances to top law schools. Offers secondary areas of emphasis with philosophy or economics. I also suspect you’d get very generous merit aid.

Whenever someone says they’re interested in politics, public policy, etc, I always think that one of the best places for students to be is in a capital, whether a state capital or the national capital. But in thinking of medium to large universities in suburban or urban areas, these are a few that I would investigate. Based on my very fallible estimation, these are my guesses as to what your chances for admission might be at the colleges on this list.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • SUNY Albany : About 12k undergrads. The degree in Public Policy & Management seems right up your alley, but there are also many options in the poli sci concentrations or perhaps the Globalization Studies major could be of interest. There’s an array of Living-Learning Communities including World of Law, Ethics and Philosophy or World of Politics. Campus is 3.9 miles from the state capitol.
  • Virginia Commonwealth : If you go visit the U. of Richmond, then I’d also check out VCU. There are more than 20k undergrads at this campus 2 miles from the capitol.

Likely (60-79%)

  • College of New Jersey : Around 6900 undergrads and 3.5 miles from the NJ capitol.
  • Providence (RI): Around 5k undergrads and less than 2 miles from the RI state house.

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • U. of Richmond (VA): There are just over 3k undergrads at this campus that is about 8 miles from the state capitol. Merit aid is available here, too, at one of the few need-blind meets full-need schools in the country.
  • George Washington (D.C.): The proximity to internships for international/public policy interests can’t be beat. About 11k undergrads.

Lower Probability (20-39%)

Low Probability (less than 20%)

Also worth noting that Richmond offers significant scholarships specifically for music (half-tuition and full-tuition) that do not require the recipient to be a music major, only a minor. (Same for dance as well.)

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I can’t speak to many of these, but I would probably put UVa into the <20% category. OP is clearly a strong student with a lot to offer, but the overall OOS ED admit rate this year was 25%, which includes a fair number of legacies - UVa acknowledges that legacy status is a meaningful factor for OOS, and the alumni assoc. estimates that the OOS admit rate for legacies has been roughly double the published rate in recent years. For an unhooked OOS ORM outside the HS top 5%, even with strong scores, I would think the percentage might be in the teens.

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Alright, will do. Thanks!

I am going on a couple tours in this upcoming summer, which I think will definitely be helpful. I also know quite a few people who go to UMD so I can ask them as well (not sure about professors). Thanks for your help!

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UDel isn’t really rural. More accurate to call it suburban.
And it’s less than an hour from there to Philly and just about an hour to Baltimore.
Vibe is somewhat similar to UMD.

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Some of the schools on your list don’t have PPE. The value of a PPE specific program is having others who are doing the same courses and the school having an interest in tying them all together. You can look up a list of PPE schools. Many are Ivy or very competitive. It’s also possible to get a PPE type degree by combining things on your own. But this can be difficult to compile.

I’d apply ED. I would also beef up your PPE related EC’s. Maybe add something to showcase your interest in politics, philosophy or econ.

Also, be prepared to explain in essays why you want to do PPE as opposed to other dual majors or combinations.

The schools on your list are very low probability given PPE is a tough major to get into and they are all very low acceptance rates. Add some of the PPE programs that have higher acceptance rates. I think BU has PPE and so does Notre Dame and there are many others. Also add in some programs which are not specifically PPE to ensure you have matches. Good luck.

I definitely understand. I was debating which category to put UVA in (low or lower probability) myself, as I think it’s on the low end of “Lower Probability” or high end of “Low Probability.” With OP not doing CS, business, or engineering, I thought that merited a slight bump, but having multiple perspectives is definitely helpful for OP.

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If you would like to compare universities and LACs in a single ranking, this site shows information by categories and includes percentiles:

Note that, unfortunately, some colleges appear to have been omitted from consideration because of their test optional policies.

double post

There are a number of rankings that combine the T50 colleges and universities in the country:
The Strongest And Weakest Colleges In America — Behind Forbes 2022 Financial Grades

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Seconding (and elaborating on) an earlier comment about Wesleyan’s College of Social Studies program. Wesleyan’s CSS (pretty much PPE) program is both excellent and distinctive. As I understand it, most PPE programs offered at American universities are essentially a set of major requirements (take x econ classes, y philosophy classes, etc), with maybe a seminar or a capstone project stuck on. Though this set-up is undoubtedly great – especially for folks with interest in all three areas – CSS works very differently.

Instead of taking other departments’ courses with students in said departments’ majors, CSS students take tutorial classes exclusively with other people in CSS. In these classes, students read hundreds of pages weekly and write 5-6 page essays before every class, coming to class prepared to discuss both the reading and their essays. As a result of this set-up, CSS students become close with the 30ish people in their year of the program, get to be in small classes with lots of feedback/prof interaction, and get really really good at writing. In this sense, CSS is genuinely its own college within the university with its own rigorous program and social scene. There are some trade-offs involved (you have less flexibility in choosing your classes), but it’s a strong – and very social – program which prepares people well for grad school. As far as I’m aware, the only other US school with a PPE program like this is Claremont McKenna.

If this sounds great, I’d be happy to talk more about CSS. If not, I’d still recommend checking out Wesleyan. Really solid government and econ departments, open curriculum, and probably about a match (though obviously who the heck knows) given your profile.

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This is a really helpful post.

OP, what is it about PPE that you are particularly drawn to? Most people know of it b/c of the outsize reputation of PPE at Oxford. Using the availability of a specific PPE program as a significant college selection metric may not be as helpful as it seems, not least b/c as @humanitiesboi24 notes, in most places it is largely set of classes with a project or overall class around it. It is only worth pursuing hard if you truly are interested in all 3 legs and how they hang together.

Re: Econ- Econ is a ‘core’ major at pretty much every uni. Unless you are strongly drawn to Econ, at the UG level the differences are not big enough to make it an important decision metric between colleges in similar tiers

In the US your major is much less important in itself- it can be as little as 1/3 of your courseload- and often it is as productive to round out your major by simply taking the courses that you are interested in.

If you are looking at policy/politics/law* post-college what will count waaaaaayyyyyyyy more than your major is your internships / work experience, and being able to afford graduate school (@ ~$100k/year x 2 for MPP or 3 for JD).

*unless you are interested in Patent, Intellectual Property, or Environmental Law, in which case Chem / other science is a much better choice of major

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What about going to the UK? You can finish a bachelor’s degree in 3 years.

There are plenty of PPE programs in the UK: Oxford, LSE, KCL, St Andrew’s. Oxford requires a bunch of 5’s on AP exams along with a separate exam and interview. I think your chances there are not that great. But you have a good chance at King’s College London and St Andrew’s.

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