Please help me choose between Brown and Cornell

<p>I'm doing pure math at Brown and I've found it's a much more closely knit department than most. Once you get past calc, the classes are really small and interactive and the professors are a hoot. Plus, the concentration only asks for six classes beyond calc and linear algebra, so it's very easy to double-concentrate without sacrificing that "freedom" to take random classes...which is what Brown is all about.</p>

<p>what about biology and pre-med in both of the schools? which school would be better? I'm more looking at campuses that are more peaceful and has less people.</p>

<p>in all fairness, i would have to say that cornell's environmental science department trumps brown's. </p>

<p>math department-wise.. siserune got it right the first time. the fact that the department is small indicates that there is a chance that you would be hard-pressed to find a professor that specializes in your field of interest. however, i think the difference for undergraduate education is marginal at best.. unless you are a huge math nerd that already knows that you want to devote your life trying to solve Twin Prime Conjecture. the importance of having a professor in your field of interest only become much more prevalent in graduate level; most of the undergraduate math programs only tries to give the students a taste of the many fields in modern mathematics. others can agree/disagree with my claims.</p>

<p>and, as an applied mathematics major, i don't think we can lump the number of professors together. they work in different realms, really :) -- (just for argument's sake)</p>

<p>furthermore, and more importantly, i noticed that OP is a transfer student! now, i don't know how much EnvSci/Math he has done prior to transferring, but one should closely check the concentration requirements. in any case, i believe that brown has one of the more lax requirements among american universities, as sbp88 pointed out. this might tip the balance for the OP, if he's really intending to major in both.</p>

<p>just my 2 cents.</p>

<p>In terms of the quality of undergraduate academics, I'd say they are about equal -- even though some people claim it is a more "undergrad focused" Ivy, Brown is definitely not an LAC, and is not Dartmouth/HYP either, and has no particular advantage over Cornell from anything I have seen. Brown is smaller, but it also has many fewer faculty, and when it comes down to some of the more specialized departments (e.g., music history, history of socialism, agricultural engineering) and research areas, Cornell may indeed have many more opportunities and faculty. In terms of overall academic breadth and research, Cornell is considered to be among the top 15 or 20 universities in the world, whereas Brown is only in the top 50-60 range -- but again, it depends very much on the department. The intro courses are going to be fairly large at either place, but both are also going to offer seminars and advanced classes that are relatively small. In terms of overall resources, you'll see if you look at the endowment per student that they are about on the same level. (see <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=4066425&postcount=224%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=4066425&postcount=224&lt;/a> for another good, if quirky, indication!) The bottom line is that both are very good. </p>

<p>Since Brown is smaller, you may have a small advantage going there in terms of getting into a top graduate school (e.g., med school), because there will be fewer students to compete against and you may find it easier to get an outstanding faculty recommendation. That is reflected in Brown's higher standing in rankings such as <a href="http://www.collegejournal.com/special/top50feeder.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegejournal.com/special/top50feeder.pdf&lt;/a> : you can see that Brown sent 6.5% of its grads onto the top schools whereas Cornell only sent 3.2%. But if you do very well at either you'll be in good shape.</p>

<p>One more observation: I would say that students at Brown are happier on average, which I think has to do with the fact that the campus is more geographically compact so people run into their friends more often. Both have a good campus "scene" though. The big differences are with the location and overall size (enrollment, facilities, departments, schools, diversity etc). You kind of have to visit to appreciate how different these two campuses are, so my advice is to apply to both, and if you get in, visit each for 2-3 days, and then talk to as many students and professors as possible so you'll make the right choice.</p>

<p>I recommend the OP ignore posterX as his information is biased and/or debatable (as is shown on nearly every Brown thread he posts on)</p>

<p>"visit each for 2-3 days" How many ##%#%ing times can you post that? Seriously? Every thread seems to be the going rate.</p>

<p>Any information out there is "debatable" and potentially "biased." Please stop following every single one of my posts with useless attacks, thanks.</p>

<p>The above post (PosterX 11:59am) is fairly accurate except in it's assumption that somehow we're drastically different than Dartmouth or HYP in our undergraduate focus and the fact that the "universities worldwide" are almost entirely about graduate school, so it's not really applicable to undergraduate experience.</p>

<p>There is also the difference between the greater pre-professional focus at Cornell in general.</p>

<p>Honestly, the size and location thing makes the schools nearly incomparable, and although Brown is often ostracized as odd man out in the Ivies, I personally think that Cornell shares the least qualities with other Ivy league schools. There's not much to the whole Ivy League thing-- it was, is, and will ever only be an NCAA division, however, I think that there are arguments to be made lumping some of the Ivies together due to common characteristics other than being considered Ivy. Cornell, in many ways, is the most difficult to do that with. I'd bet that Cornell has a high number of students who don't apply to other Ivies for this very reason.</p>

<p>I agree that the overall academic breadth of a university is less important for the undergrad experience than it is for the graduate one (in general... you could also argue that the graduate experience is even more about working one-on-one with a professor/specific department and it doesn't matter as much there, either, although the fact is that PhDs from the "top" academic programs completely dominate in terms of getting placements in academic departments). Bottom line is that it is still a factor that many students would consider. Brown has many graduate Ph.D. students just like the other Ivies, but its undergraduate focus is also very strong. What I meant was that it is not unusual in this regard, when compared with Cornell or the other top-20 universities in USNWR. Cornell is much larger, but it also has many more faculty so the student to faculty ratios and average class sizes end up being about the same.</p>

<p>HYP/Dartmouth and some of the top LACs are somewhat unusual in terms of their resources per student being far ahead of the competition, but that has more or less of an impact on undergraduate experience depending on how much a student takes advantage of them. What I mean by this is that it is generally "easier" to, say, find a rare set of manuscripts, apply for the Rhodes and have 10 people read your app, take exclusively 5-person seminars for an entire semester or have a summer research trip to Lesotho entirely paid for you if your school has more resources per student -- if you go somewhere like Michigan or UTexas that is at a clear disadvantage relative to HYP, you can still do great things like that but you will most likely have to work harder to go after them.</p>

<p>I understand what you are saying about campus size, in that Cornell is relatively very large, and while it is certainly true that many people apply there without applying to other Ivies, I personally wouldn't separate Cornell from them.</p>

<p>"Any information out there is "debatable" and potentially "biased." "</p>

<p>Err. Wrong. There is a difference between baised and unbiased. For all of this "debatable" info you dish out you sure seem to be confident in its validity.</p>

<p>"Please stop following every single one of my posts with useless attacks, thanks."</p>

<p>I'm trying to help the posters out who don't know any better. Some people might actually LISTEN to you (cringe). What makes you think saying "please stop" will change anything. It doesn't matter what you want to hear or don't want to hear. Not for you to decide there buddy.</p>

<p>kthx</p>

<p>I want to major in biology and then go to medical school. which school would be stronger in those two areas?anyone know which school has a higher acceptance percentage of students going to medical school?</p>

<p>I'd say they are really close. I would base your decision on where you see the best fit overall, personally and academically.</p>

<p>even though the percentage of students going to med-school is a valid metric, i think your GPA, GMAT scores, and research experiences throughout your undergraduate years would count more. in other words, i am endorsing posterX's post above.</p>

<p>Oh my goodness, I have been following posts all over the CC Brown Board. There's no way you, Posterx, can make the assertions that you did about Brown without actually have gone there, or attending the istitution at the time. Please, anyone interested in Brown and others colleges, listen to ACTUAL STUDENTS and not people who think they know everything about everything. This is even getting me annoyed and I hardly ever post on CC. </p>

<p>-Current (and thoroughly enjoying it :D) Brown Student</p>

<p>If i had to pick between Brown and Cornell it would be Brown in a heartbeat. And I'm out of shape so my heartbeats are really fast.</p>

<p>Brown has the better med school acceptance rate. Brown is perhaps the most represented school at top buisness, law, dental, engineering and med schools After HYPS of course. Its in the top five that should be good enough.</p>

<p>Both school will satisfy anyone academically.</p>

<p>I am a math concentrator here at Brown University so I can only comment on that program. We have many absolutely EXCELLENT (Banchoff, Silverman, Hoffstein, Miller, etc) math profs here at Brown, along with some dreadfully awful profs.</p>

<p>The trick is to figure out which profs to take classes with and then only take those classes.</p>

<p>Socially, I don't know how any school can beat Brown. Now it is NOT because we have the best parties or everyone does the trippies drugs (which isnt true), it is because at every moment you are surrounded by a diverse and intelligent group of peers. It's fun, all the time. We are (mostly) all chill and non-competitive academically. </p>

<p>We are ranked the happiest college in the country. </p>

<p>From what I have heard of cornell more people are cut-throat and very competitive. Some people prefer this type of atmosphere. </p>

<p>You'll be happy at either school. If you are a more laid back person, choose brown.. if you enjoy more competition go to Cornell.</p>

<p>James P. Kelliher, worst Math professor ever...</p>

<p>Love Banchoff though, of course.</p>