$150,000 of debt for undergraduate study is far greater than “normal” amounts of debt for undergraduate study.
Extra debt will limit your flexibility in career and life choices.
Also, https://www.amc.edu/academic/undergraduate/upload/2017-2018-Financial-Aid-Guide-with-TOC-2-17-PDF.pdf (page 35-36) suggests that AMC total costs are about $80,000 per year for medical school tuition and living expenses. So you would have $150,000 of debt for undergraduate plus $320,000 of debt for medical school (plus whatever tuition increases occur in the meantime, or at least $470,000 of debt by MD graduation. After 3-7 years of residency (at around age 29-33) you can finally start paying off the debt, and hope you can pay it off faster than it accumulates interest (at current student loan rates, probably around $30,000 per year). If you choose a lower paid specialty like a primary care one, that can be rather difficult.
Once again, I understand, and I’m figuring that into my decision. Can someone please answer my other questions that I asked in the first post of this thread?
No, significant undergraduate debt is not the trade-off to become a doctor. It is not normal, and it is not expected. It is, in fact, an unwise financial choice.
That much undergraduate debt, combined with the (even larger) debt you’ll incur to finish med school will be crippling.
If you’re good enough to get into a BSMD program, you’re also good enough to get the grades you’ll need to be admitted to med school without the limitations of a BSMD program. In addition, you’ll be able to apply widely, which means you may be able to consider competing financial offers if your grades, MCAT, etc. are good enough.
If you got waitlisted at Harvard then my hunch is you will do well enough at SUNY to get into a medical school. If you don’t get good enough grades at SUNY then you probably would have had a hard time getting good enough grades at RPI.
On the other hand, it looks like you need at 3.4 at RPI and would need closer to 3.8 to apply from SUNY. Additionally, no MCAT needed at RPI and you would need to take the MCAT coming from a SUNY.
So, you get admitted to medical school with a much lower gpa threshold and no MCAT required for the cost of $150,000.
How will you get 150,000 in loans,? Do your parents plan to cover some or all of this amount for college? Definitely try to get any extra amount from RPI. Talk to your parents for exact numbers so you know what size loans you are talking about. Don’t forget that for many families, after the first year or 2 of parent plus loans, they might not qualify for the additional loans for the last year of undergraduate. It depends on their income, assets, etc. Make sure you have enough money to complete all 3 years if you choose RPI.
All UD med schools are good schools. Graduating from any one can be starting point for any direction you want to go in medicine. Although med schools can tweak their programs, for most part, all med school education is broad based both in class and clinically. Med school itself is the undergraduate part of your medical education. It is, in part, intended to help one firm up what specific pathway (residency-graduate medical education) one wants to go down…
Although not inclusive of all program directors (PDs) and programs, thumb through the most recent survey of PDs. There are two parts to matching: getting an interview invite and ranking. Fig 1 shows what’s important to PDs in getting an interview invite. To translate, performance in med school is most important, where one attends med school, not so much. Fig 2 shows what’s important to PDs in ranking. How someone did at interview combined with med school performance is what’s most important, where one attended med school, again not so much. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf
Since most who start premed change their minds and of those that apply 60% fail to get even one acceptance, a premed even with a competitive application would be nuts to go to a 4 year college and not apply to multiple med schools.
There’s a saying that getting into med school is a marathon, not a sprint. Why not slow down, broaden your horizons, and take the full ride. If you go 4 years to Albany you’ll still have plenty of years ahead to help others and enjoy life/family more without the huge debt load. .
I don’t know about premed advising at RPI, but I wouldn’t trust any published acceptance rate as the number can be easily manipulated.
Many of my friends did not receive much aid from RPI and have to pay 40-50k a yr too. I will be speaking with RPI about this soon.
Also I’d like to add that since I live nearby, I will be commuting to rpi for the final 2 yrs (they require me to live in the dorm first year). So that effectively slashes costs by 20k a yr. So total cost is more like 110k.
But that still makes the debt difference 100k. Is a guaranteed acceptance and no MCAT worth the 100k?
And, yes, I was waitlisted at Harvard, but does that necessarily mean that I will have the caliber of a top performing premed student? Does high school success neatly translate into undergraduate success?
Also, people are making the case that I can take my undergraduate years easy and take time to explore and learn. I agree 100%, but isn’t that option also possible at RPI? Since I have no mcat requirement and lower GPA standards, and since I finish a year early, can’t I take a year off and do volunteer work abroad? I don’t know if the stress of doing well at SUNY Albany will give me the option to do this. Thoughts?
High school success is the strongest predictor for college success. Clearly you have the potential. Whether you can pull it off will be largely up to you.
And nope. I don’t think that 100k in debt is worth it for the benefits offered.
@happymomof1 Hmmm that’s interesting. How much (maximum) would you pay for the benefits offered by the RPI program? Also, what’s your opinion of Albany med?
At the interview, I was told that the RPI kids always place at the top of the class and are usually matched with the best residencies, especially due to their research experience and publications. I do enjoy doing research and I think I have a good chance of being published if I go to Albany Med. Elsewhere, I don’t know if i will have that opportunity.
I don’t know anything in particular about any medical school. I do know students who turned down HYPS undergrad programs for their own home state public Us because of affordability.
Getting research opportunities is mostly up to you. Are you willing to investigate what is available at the SUNY? Are you willing to knock on faculty doors and ask about working in that lab? No one is going to hand you a research project just because you are breathing. You have to go looking for it.
100k is four brand new Toyota Prius 2 models at my local dealership.
Knowing how many would-be pre-meds change their minds along the way (and not solely because they failed out of O Chem), it is hard for me to recommend taking on more than the standard federal loans, no matter how many bells and whistles the program has. 100k in debt for a BSMD that turns into a gee I want a biopharmaceutical PhD instead, will leave that person struggling financially all the way through grad school and the postdoc(s) even with the usual level of full funding for those years.
There are a number of threads on BSMD vs BS, and debt loads for pre-meds in the Med School & Pre-med forum. You might find some insight there.
I was going to say Albany until I looked back at your scores. I’m not sure you can throw down a good enough MCAT unless you dedicate yourself to that exam for 3 years. Can you do that? I know a new Dr who did that. 3.5 years of studying for the MCAT. He gave up a lot to get there.
As for Albany Med Hospital. I’ve been to the hospital way too many times in my life and always agree to let the Alb Med students poke around. They get a fine education.
A 3.4 at RPI is not easy.
BTW, My kid is deciding between RPI (CS&MATH) and bunch of SUNYs now. If money was not an issue, RPI wins for academics and recruiting. I do think Buffalo is great school in a cool city and the m/f ratio is OK.
Based on your parents income, I figure RPI is making you pay your full EFC. Unless you are URM and/or female, that is the way it goes at RPI.
Hmm thanks for your replies. If RPI does not budge considerably with aid, there’s a good chance I will take SUNY Albany route.
But now I’m a little confused. On the one hand, one party is saying that my AP scores are low, thus it will likely be hard for me to maintain good GPA and MCAT in college, which would make RPI a safer option. One the other hand, another party is saying that I managed to make it onto Harvard’s waitlist, and that means I should be able to do well enough in undergrad to get into med school, making SUNY Albany the better option.
I have heard countless horror stories about people who did fairly well on MCAT and had great GPA and applied widely, but were still rejected from every med school they applied to. I’m afraid that I might end up in this category, and I don’t want to throw away this option without knowing exactly what I’m getting myself into by taking SUNY Albany route. I’ve heard of people who rejected schools like Harvard to attend this program. Is applying to med school really as tough as the stories make it out to be? I have heard that people who have gotten into BSMD programs will generally perform well enough to get into med school if they take the traditional route. I guess what I am asking is: should I doubt myself? I don’t want to make a decision out of fear.
Thanks to everyone for helping me out so far. Your advice has been much appreciated.
AND sorry if I come off as stubborn. I’m just trying to explore every option to its fullest to make an informed decision.
The problem is, the best case scenario with the RPI-AMC 7-year program is starting a medical practice (probably at age 29-33) with $470,000 in debt plus whatever interest accrued during that time. Even with physician’s pay, that can take a considerable amount of time to pay off, even if you continue to live like a student (under $25,000 per year in spending).
For comparison, 75% of medical graduates have student loan debt, with an average amount of $192,000, according to https://www.creditdonkey.com/average-medical-school-debt.html . While still quite high, it is more manageable than $470,000 of debt. It also indicates that many medical students have wealthy supportive parents cover all (for the 25% with no debt) or some (since medical school commonly costs more than $192,000) of their educational expenses.
Good Lord,it is a no brainer. You go to the school that will give you no or little debt! My daughter and SIL have 400,000 combined in JUST med school debt, and have a monthly loan payments of $2500! That is with NO UG debt. Go to UG as cheap as possible, the other end isn’t pretty.
You really need a sit-down with your parents and find out how much they will contribute. This will squeeze them hard. RPI knows they can get whatever they want out of families for the BS/MD program.
Your AP scores may not be a reflection of your abilities. You may have had weak AP teachers.
I haven’t read all the posts. Is the SUNY Albany offer a BS/MD program that lets you attend their med school as long as you meet the req’ts as an undergrad? Take the Albany route for little/no debt.
Btw…do not count on your parents to help pay off a bunch of debt. You have no idea of what their future may bring…an illness, unemployment, early retirement, etc. I just read a post in another forum from a mom who’s very upset that her 60-year-old husband has just lost his high-paying job. Very unlikely he’ll get his salary elsewhere at his age. If parents like them had made such a promise or their kids had an expectation that they would help pay student loan debts, likely they’d now be hearing, “so sorry, but no can do.” Too much uncertainty when people get into their 50s and 60s…health, jobs, helping grandparents, etc, etc.
