<p>Trinity college is known to be very white and preppy, that being said when we visited the school we saw a lot of inter-racial interaction at their student center. We saw few group of kids there, and there were blacks, asians in those groups, whereas at a school like Cornell (big diversity) we saw more segregation. I think you will need to visit each school and get the vibe.</p>
<p>If he wants engineering grad school - a physics degree would probably be more applicable.
Some engineering schools let students outside the college take classes - often you need to get permission. Pitt Engineering offers minors in engineering - an advisor told us that you can do the minor from Arts & Sciences provided you meet the prereq’s (usually physics and math). If time does not allow for the minor, you can still take courses in the college of engineering with permission. This may be one way to be able to get to an eng. grad school. Now the minor is in no way an accredited engineering degree, however it would pave a path to grad school. I mention Pitt because I know it, but other schools may be the same. You may have to ask someone directly - the website may indicate that courses are only for students in the college, but that does not mean you can’t get around it.</p>
<p>One more thing - I would not really recommend Pitt unless he does jazz or ethnomusicology. They are not really known for music.</p>
<p>You should look at Oberlin College in Ohio. It has a very good music program, but I don’t know about the math department. Your son would receive a solid education there.</p>
<p>Need to keep in mind of his stats. I think Oberlin requires higher stats.</p>
<p>He’s not really undecided about engineering any more than he’s undecided about music. He wants to study both; we just can’t figure out how to make that happen in a way we can afford (since most financial aid will run out at 4 years and most engineering programs seem to allow for few other classes). </p>
<p>He loves Oberlin but doesn’t have the stats. That’s why I asked about other lacs. He is rather preppy and has always lived and been educated with primarily white people but our area is diverse in that there is good representation of Asians, blacks and Hispanics. That’s why I’m not really worried if the school is primarily white; I’m more worried if the school segregates (regardless of the numbers).</p>
<p>I also thought of Catholic. Also in D.C. is Howard University, they offer both Engineering and Music.</p>
<p>If he’s interested in Jazz, Pitt should be high on the list:</p>
<p>[Jazz</a> at Pitt](<a href=“http://www.pitt.edu/~pittjazz/index.html]Jazz”>http://www.pitt.edu/~pittjazz/index.html)</p>
<p>What about Ithaca College? He could get in with his GPA, as long as he can pass the audition for the music school. They have a BS in Math-Physics that might get him into engineering school. Instead of a dual major, depending upon his career plans he could minor in music, and still do a lot of performing. They are also very generous with financial aid if that is an issue. When I was there they had many AA students and very active social groups for AA kids. I never noticed any racial discrimination, and I hung out mostly with AA students who happened to be music majors (more discrimination along class lines than racial ones). Also, the music students were very closely knit, so your son would have a crowd of friends at the ready…</p>
<p>
Bump…</p>
<p>It probably depends on the type of engineering, whether you can major in something else before going to grad school. I cannot imagine a student getting an MS in structural engineering without having a BS in engineering. There are too many analysis and design classes specific to structures to catch up easily. I KNOW you can’t do it at UT-Austin (my dad is a civil engineering prof there).</p>
<p>I highly and I do mean highly recommend looking at NCA&T. It is an HBCU located in Greensboro, NC. It has a long and honorable history of educating some great engineers and leaders. It is a state school with a definite private school approach to education. It has a little over 4000 students and close knit campus.</p>
<p>They have a school of engineering and one of the BEST marching bands in the US…their drum line is fantastic. Their Mech E program is also a very close group and the professors are extremely accesible spending many “office hours” with their students. Any where from 15-20 students per class, no 700 students for a “weed-out” class.</p>
<p>They have a new program/building for those wanting to specialize in nanoscience and nanoengineering, one of the 1st in the country, starts this fall. </p>
<p><a href=“http://jsnn.ncat.uncg.edu/[/url]”>http://jsnn.ncat.uncg.edu/</a></p>
<p>Out of all my kiddos attending various schools in the US, NCA&T has the BEST dining hall and meal plan. The BEST, for taste, value, cost, quality…you name it the best.</p>
<p>If you can’t tell, I love, love this school. Best kept secret for engineering schools…and yes this is coming from a mom whose other son was accepted to MIT and Cal tech.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ncat.edu/~finaid/pdf/budgets_undergrad_non_res2011-2012.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ncat.edu/~finaid/pdf/budgets_undergrad_non_res2011-2012.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://businessfinance.ncat.edu/FEE_SHEET_2011-2012_Summary_Per_Semester.pdf[/url]”>http://businessfinance.ncat.edu/FEE_SHEET_2011-2012_Summary_Per_Semester.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://www.eng.ncat.edu/[/url]”>http://www.eng.ncat.edu/</a></p>
<p>Again, can you tell I love this school? It feels like an small private LAC with the school spirit of a big-time sports school and school pride rivaling an ivy. It is a school laced with tradition and has played an integral part in shaping US history.</p>
<p>Kat
ps OP your son’s stats should be fine
<a href=“http://www.marchingmachine.com/[/url]”>http://www.marchingmachine.com/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ncat.edu/~admit/[/url]”>http://www.ncat.edu/~admit/</a></p>
<p>Re: 3+2</p>
<p>This is sometimes discussed on the engineering major forum. A recent poster mentioned that out of all of the fellow freshmen intending to do 3+2, the poster was the only one who actually eventually transferred ( <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12884252-post23.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12884252-post23.html</a> ).</p>
<p>A few impediments to actually completing a 3+2 program:</p>
<p>a. A student at a four year school may not want to transfer away from his/her settled in life at his/her existing school for the uncertainty of a new school.
b. A student who was attracted to a LAC (typical “3” school) in the first place may not want to go to the type of university that the “2” schools often are.
c. One has to follow a course schedule carefully to pack in the major(s) at the “3” school and the engineering prerequisites for the “2” school in the first three years.
d. Transfer is not guaranteed; one has to apply to the “2” school. Some of the “2” schools advertised for 3-2 programs are highly selective in terms of admissions. Also, financial aid at the “2” school is another uncertainty even if one is admitted.
e. After transferring to the “2” school, the student may have to do catch-up courses because sophomore level engineering courses may not have been available at the “3” school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So the answer to my question is, “another poster on CC.”</p>
<p>Seems to me a bit light for such a categorical statement.</p>
<p>OP…your son’s stats are a bit low but not out of range for Carnegie Mellon, particularly if he wants music as his first major. If he does well on the APs and brings up the ACT and writes a compelling essay for why he likes both fields he may have a good chance. FA is not great but if a student gets competing offers from similar schools (RPI, cornell) or a music school he may find that they will try hard to meet need. Do not apply ED if financial aid is important to you. </p>
<p>My son is in fine arts and is minoring in robotics (an engineering minor). It is very tough but doable. He is taking a CC summer course now to fufill some requirements and CMU, surprisinly, was just fine with him taking a CC online course. They work hard to help kids do these very diverse majors and minors. There is a whole program for double majors to help them get done in 4 years even when the majors are as far apart as engineering and music. There are alot of sound engineers who are also composers or play an instrument… </p>
<p>He has friends doing math and music. It is perfectly possible to do both music and engineering but your S may not get accepted straight into engineering. He should apply to the schoo of engineering, HSS (for math), and the music school (will need to send audition tape or visit). If he gets into two or more, he can apply for the double major program. If he only gets into one he can add the major or minor if he does OK in the first set of prerequisite classes. My son was waitlisted in engineering and computer science and chose to do the minor with the fine arts degree. Certainly your son would be able to do enough engineering core classes and math to make going on to engineering grad school a possibility. My brother was an English major at LAC and took a semester of extra classes to then go to engineering grad school.</p>
<p>CMU loves, loves, loves multidisciplinary kids. This is hte place that forces comp science majors to do a minor outside of comp science and really pushes them to do a humanity/music/etc. minor or major. </p>
<p>CMU is also very keen to increase minority and women stats in the sciences/math/engineering and works to make sure that these students are successful in such a white/asian/male dominated environment. My son is bicultural (hispanic/white) and rooms with a biracial (AA/white) kid. Both of them wanted to go to a school like their very diverse high school and CMU definitely fit the bill. I am impressed by the cultural/social/ethnic diversity and how welcoming the school is and supportive of students who may feel like they are odd-ducks in which ever field they are trying to break into.</p>
<p>My nephew went to NCA&T for engineering. It took him 5 or so years to graduate; maybe more, and he ended up with a math degree rather than engineering. I believe he said it was because they changed some requirements. He graduated about three years ago and is managing to live on his own in Brooklyn.Not sure if it’s considered a "commuter’ school, but he lives in Durham, came home often, then finally moved out of the dorm, and back home in sophmore year. He wasn’t a “dorm kind of kid”. I AM a fan of NCA&T. </p>
<p>My son asked about 3+2 programs at Willamette and Whitworth and was also told by at least the admissions counselor at Willamette, and maybe at both Willamette and Whitworth, that it is rarely completed as planned. Willamette has a 4+2 program, I believe for a BS in Physics, and a Masters in engineering.</p>
<p>Vassar College may not standout as far as engineering goes, but they have a good music department, and is a top LAC. Though your son’s GPA may be below the range, the fact that he is a male URM increases his chances of getting accepted. Can’t comment on FA.</p>
<p>I would also agree with the previous poster regarding CMU. My son will be going there next year (URM ,Hispanic). Got accepted to the business school and waitlisted for engineering (he had above 4.0 weighted gpa, but did subpar on SAT critical reading). He was tossed between business and bio engineering. I steered him away from any schools that concentrated on one, but not both…CMU was ideal. He also wanted medium size student population (under 15k, over 5k), near an urban area. Based on other posts, to get FA, you have to have a demonstrative need. Though they do state that they will try to match offers from competing schools, if, for example, they already have enough URMs committed to going, the likelihood of getting significant, if any, FA diminishes.</p>
<p>Whichever way your s decide to go, visit, visit, visit… Can’t stress that enough.
Good luck.</p>
<p>What would you think of approaching it like this, together with your son:
First, look up the ABET accredited programs in mechanical engineering. You can find them here by first clicking “find an accredited program” and then putting in “mechanical” as your search criteria:
[ABET</a> | Accrediting College Programs in Applied Science, Computing, Engineering and Technology](<a href=“http://www.abet.org/]ABET”>http://www.abet.org/)
Then, look up some of the programs and see what their requirements are. Look up those course descriptions. Would your son be interested in taking those courses? Look up the professors and see what their areas of interest or work are. Do these interest your son?
If so, your son can contact an engineering organization, such as the American Society of Black Engineers:
[NSBE</a> - National Society of Black Engineers](<a href=“http://www.nsbe.org/]NSBE”>http://www.nsbe.org/)
He can ask if there is a member who communicates well with teenagers who would be willing to provide an informational interview and/or shadow experience so that your son could learn more about what mechanical engineers do. If your son likes this experience, you can then look at the accredited programs and see which ones also are at universities that offer music lessons and ensemble experiences for non-music majors. Your son can keep communicating with this contact person, because he or she could potentially become an important connection for your son!
(Some posters will say that it is not important to attend an accredited program. To that I say, there is no reason NOT to attend an accredited program at this stage of the game.)
Along with this, you can see if there is interest and aptitude testing at his high school to test whether engineering comes up as a good fit for him.
If your son does not think that he would enjoy the engineering courses or work, then you have eliminated engineering and you can start a new thread!</p>
<p>Levirm, Your last sentence sure made me laugh! My son has already had quite a bit of exposure to mechanical engineering including participating in an engineering explorer program and Project Lead the Way so he’s unlikely to back down. But I think you can see the problem: in general, one will have to be primary unless he does a 3+2 program or I can somehow afford 7 years of college. (NOT!) </p>
<p>If he sticks to music with math (or physics, as suggested), Ithaca will definitely be on our list. CMU is a wonderful school and I could suggest he apply but I really think it is a high reach based on stats. I will look at it more closely though, especially the music admissions. Vassar is close to my heart but I also think it is a high reach. </p>
<p>I had thought of NC AT & T but would have to check to see what they offer for a classical percussionist. (I had an inlaw who graduated from there with an engineering degree and really seemed to have a very nice career.) I’m really glad to know their weeder engineering classes are small; that was something that concerns me about big state schools. I think they may also have a consortium with other area schools and I wonder how that works since I think Greensboro has a pretty good music school, in case AT&T doesn’t work out. Question to those of you familiar with the school: Do the kids segregate based on race and would a northener be in for a culture shock? </p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about FL State? I have also considered some TX schools (SMU, Baylor) but I don’t know if the culture shock will be too great. Of course, none of these schools are the small schools he would love but I don’t think any of the lacs that have engineering have strong music programs (Bucknell, Lafayette).</p>
<p>This is a really interesting post, and it begs the question of what is a major for anyway. A degree in music is probably necessary to be a music teacher, but I’m not sure what else it qualifies you to do. A degree in mechanical engineering, on the other hand, is a professional credential. I’m by no means suggesting that he shouldn’t study music, I just wonder if he’s really thought through all of the ramifications. </p>
<p>I’m a high end EE and have a certain view of what is needed to be a successful engineer. I generally recommend someone do as challenging of a program as they think they can handle. There are schools like WPI and Rose-Hulman that provide a decent, though not exactly world-class, engineering education in a manor that is not as stressful as some of their peers. There are also liberal arts colleges that offer engineering majors, but graduates of these colleges who are actually practicing engineers are not that numerous. These engineering degrees are often “engineering-lite” degrees. That might give him opportunities anyway, but they are not likely to be competitive with graduates of more traditional programs in a tough economy for hard core engineering jobs. </p>
<p>If he wants to be an engineer, I recommend he do as challenging of a program that he can handle. However, you (plural) seemed to have ruled that out and prefer to go the LAC route along with music. I don’t think this route is totally unreasonable but certainly has risks. The 3-2 engineering programs are often talked about, but it’s not that common of a route. I can see it being especially difficult when financial aid is needed, though it may be a better option then getting a graduate degree after a liberal arts education because there is little financial aid for terminal masters programs, and a math major would still have quite of bit of engineering to make up. I would definitely ask the question of 3-2 programs as to whether a financial aid package can be carried to the engineering school at the end of the program, especially for the 5th year. </p>
<p>That said, his GPA is a little on the low side to get into a lot of top engineering programs. The math ACT score is pretty good though for many engineering schools. </p>
<p>It’s possible to get a graduate degree in engineering after a liberal arts education, but at an additional cost with little financial aid for graduate school. This is another thing that you want to think about. </p>
<p>One of the reasons often cited for students to shy away from the 3-2 programs is that the student has become too involved in the community of the LAC to want to leave after 3 years when all of his friends are staying around for senior year. </p>
<p>One solution to this problem is to go to a 3-2 engineering program at a liberal arts college that is in the same general area as the undergraduate. This way the social life isn’t left behind. </p>
<p>Some possibilities
Clark University + WPI - I think he can get in there</p>
<p>Goucher + Johns Hopkins - This might be really good for a music scene. It seems like he can take some engineering courses at Hopkins his sophomore year, which would be really helpful. </p>
<p>Ithaca + Cornell</p>
<p>In each of these cases, the LAC part of the equation is much easier to get into than the engineering part. These could be good options. Ithaca is very well known for it’s music. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>