<p>That something to fall back on is called a safety school</p>
<p>Yeah, I certainly did not want to call Princeton a safety. Afterall, Princeton is a reach for all.</p>
<p>Did you know that Pton has the BEST math and physics undergrad. and grad. programs in the world?</p>
<p>If you get into Pton; I hope your dad forces you to go there and become a physics freak. We need more geniuses in this world. </p>
<p>Hey, it's not so bad. Picture yourself pouring through enormous books on Quantum theory and working out equations for the next decade of your life. Princeton will turn you into a brilliant scientist. Isn't that nice? All your good friends who had gone to Columbia will be discussing philosophy during the weekdays in class and will be having fun partying and socializing on weekends. But you'll be too busy studying and perfecting the Lorenz equations, the fourier transformations, and other critical mathamatical components of physics.</p>
<p>Years later, you look in the mirror and see this brilliant physicist who's very skinny and has very pointed, gray hair. You then look out the window (from your very laboratory) and see your ex-friend who had gone to Columbia and persued his MBA at Harvard and is now a millionaire. You also notice his fiancee who happens to look like a model. You then go out to say hello and catch up on good times; after all, it's been decades since you last said goodbye when he parted to Columbia and you parted to Princeton......But alas, he can hardly recognize you....you've changed so much. </p>
<p>Finally he says to you, "why oh why didn't you join me at Columbia. We could had so much fun together". And you just stare at him cluelessly. Finally, he goes away to his luxury in-stay hotel with his fiancee. But you stroll back to your physics lab...It's getting late, you have a presentation to make in the morning regarding your current research project in quantum physics......</p>
<p>^^that made no sense, along with wharton and harvard, princeton pretty much owns wall street.</p>
<p>BUT I CAN REALLY RELATE</p>
<p>My fellow P'09ers will lynch me, but: before everything, Stanford was my dream school. Now, I live about 7 minutes off Princeton campus, and I didn't want to go there simply because it was so close. Princeton was my dad's dream choice as well. Harvard was my mom's dream choice, and she made me apply there early (I really didn't want to go there, so I gave them a ****ty app). However, it turns out that I didn't get into Stanford, and will be going to Princeton. I'm glad, because since getting in and really coming here and getting a feel for the place, it is such a relaxing environment. Not at all as preppy and elitist as the stereotypes make it seem.</p>
<p>Yeah, I did want to go to a city, thought it would have been nice. But since then, I've found that at a non-urban school, you get to party with people that you know, people from your school. At an urban college, the clubs will be mostly filled with strangers.</p>
<p>I would like to tell you that I applied to Columbia, and was accepted there as well. It has a beautiful campus, but I couldn't really see any good reason to go there over Princeton. You can't really say Columbia has any department that is better than its counterpart at Princeton. (personally, I woulda gone to Penn over Columbia (got in there too)). Not to mention, the disparity between a Columbia financial aid offer and a Princeton financial aid offer. Despite your father not being able to pay, Princeton offerred me MUCH better aid. No comparison.</p>
<p>As for fitting in at Princeton, like yourself, I never could envision myself as a Princeton student before I got in. But, I don't think the people here are all THAT much different from people at Vassar, Amherst, or Columbia. Vassar is quite liberal, but Princeton has its artists' scene as well. I wouldn't want to go to a school so politically skewed to one side, because I believe that college is about experiencing different viewpoints, and if you block out the people who disagree, you miss the point of education. That is why I like Princeton's relatively moderate student body (even though liberals still outnumber conservatives 2:1).</p>
<p>ok, i don't think you guys fully understand where i'm coming from.</p>
<p>admittedly the pressure that my step dad is putting on me doesn't make me any more attracted to the school, but i'd like to think i'm not childish enough to blow off one of the top schools in the country because i'm a whiny brat.</p>
<p>and socially speaking: believe me i know that you can find a niche just about anywhere. once again, i go to a school that's pretty damn famous for catering mainly to the exact opposite of my academic interests. still, i have made amazing friends there and i know i can do the same at just about any college.</p>
<p>really my issue with princeton lies in the fact that i won't get in regular decision. i'm a decent candidate, even for ivy league schools, but i'm not an amazing one. the only reason i feel that i have a shot with columbia is because i'm applying ED, i know a lot of people with essentially the same stats as i who've gotten in, and a lot of what i've read about their admissions process suggests that they're more interested in personality/essays (which will be the strong points of my college apps) than anything else. </p>
<p>i just don't want to waste my time with a school that i won't get in to. i know tons of people who are much smarter than me with much better stats who were rejected. of course dad won't accept that as a valid argument, but that's why i'm here. </p>
<p>i certainly understand the argument that i really should just give the place a chance, but there are thousands of schools in this country and probably hundreds of good ones. i've agreed with my parents that i'll only apply to five. i don't see why i should apply to a school that i'm not interested in just because there's nothing obviously wrong with it. i especially dont see why i should do that when there are other schools that i actively want to go to, but that have been forcibly excluded from the list to have it align with someone elses wants.</p>
<p>and for the record, thanks to the school i attend i'm essentially guaranteed acceptance and a near full ride scholarship to UNC Chapel Hill (which is a really good school). i get that it's no princeton, but if i don't get into columbia and somehow do get into princeton i will be forced to go there. in my mind columbia is the only school that i'm willing to rack up student loans for.</p>
<p>but hey, if you guys can't come up with a single problem in princeton's undergrad experience then whatever.</p>
<p>"in my mind columbia is the only school that i'm willing to rack up student loans for."</p>
<p>well...princeton doesn't let you rack up student loans anyway. ;)</p>
<p>If you really hate it this much already, though, then don't bother applying. I'm sure someone else would die to be accepted, and it would be pointless to take their spot.</p>
<p>don't apply if you want to go to columbia. ur losing a great opportunity in applying ed to columbia.</p>
<p>oh ok, ic your reasoning. theyre trying to force you to apply ED princeton? yeah that would suck, if you don't have a firm first choice. i didnt, so i applied to an SCEA. but you seem to think columbia is your best option for ED. go for it, i say. but if you don't get in, i don't see why you should just apply to 5. that is very few. i applied to 13, which is alot, but i think around 8 is pretty reasonable, if you want choices come april. if you feel more confident, and most importantly, satisfied, with columbia. id tell your parents that you just dont want to be greedy and take that risk of foregoing ED columbia for ED princeton.</p>
<p>and for the record, i got into Princeton RD, without a national award, athletic recruitment, writing a pulitzer-winning novel, curing cancer, or anything. in fact, im an indian male. princeton is definitely a school that doesn't heavily weigh your stats. they gauge your personality and how well they think you'd succeed at princeton, and in your life overall. they look for the difference between manufactured success in test scores and a myriad of meaningless ECs, and inate, yet to be realized ability. i can attest to this, because i have a couple friends who got in with sub-1500s, not even top 10% of high school, while our 1600 val got deferred then rejected.</p>
<p>it truly shows that the chances posts you see on CC are meaningless.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i've agreed with my parents that i'll only apply to five.
[/quote]
hmm ... earlier I suggested you not fight about the Princeton application to save any arguments for a more important topic ... and to me at the level of schools you are applying to only applying to 5 schools is a very risky approach. </p>
<p>You should apply to safety, match, and reach schools (with 5 schools maybe that is 1, 2, and 2 schools). Your reach schools are going to be about a 10% admit probability ... if Columbia and Princeton are your 2 reach schools and you're highly qualified you've got at best about a 20% chance of admission of one of the two schools. At that level of reach schools I believe applying to only 1 or 2 schools is self-defeating. </p>
<p>I'd suggest pushing back on the limit of 5 schools and try to get it more in the 8-10 school range ... 1-2 safeties, 2-3 matches, and 4-5 reaches ... given the level of schools you are considering you need a few shots at the tough admits!</p>
<p>Now that you've explained that you've limited your applications to 5 schools, I guess it's fine for you to scratch Princeton off your list. I agree with 3togo, though, that you should at least consider increasing the number of schools you apply to as a compromise. Being "practically guaranteed acceptance to UNC" is not the same as "admission to UNC".A safety is not safe until you are admitted.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but hey, if you guys can't come up with a single problem in princeton's undergrad experience then whatever.
[/quote]
If you're looking for a list of Princeton's Bad Points, then forget it, you won't find it here... because it doesn't exist. Anything remotely negative about the school is subjective and relative to a person's experience and ambitions, so don't waste your time. </p>
<p>
[quote]
my issue with princeton lies in the fact that i won't get in regular decision
[/quote]
Anonymous just told us how he ended up deciding to attend Princeton, but you seem to know exactly what you want and where you'll be accepted so good for you! Just go ahead and do whatever the hell you want to do. Good luck convincing your step dad.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i just don't want to waste my time with a school that i won't get in to. i know tons of people who are much smarter than me with much better stats who were rejected. of course dad won't accept that as a valid argument, but that's why i'm here.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you fall within the range then there is no reason not to apply; among those who were accepted with higher stats, I am sure there were plenty others rejected as such. There is no 'winning formula' for Princeton et al. If you fall in the range, try for it and see what happens; it is exactly this mindset that prevented many of my qualified friends from applying.</p>
<p>Of course, if you are not going to attend even if accepted, then do not bother applying. There are many other students with Princeton as their dream school, and it would be a shame to see you take their spot.</p>
<p>hehe</p>
<p>ok, so now i see my mistake in putting an essentially anti-princeton post in a princeton forum. umm, thanks for the advice? you're probably right, i should apply to more schools now. but when i came to my parents saying that i'd only be applying to five schools i had a very different plan altogether. i had one safety (UNC), three matches (vassar, macalester, amherst, or something like those), and one reach (columbia). obviously that plan has been changed (more than you think). i never really felt it was risky because if i can't get into unc then something is terribly wrong with the universe. </p>
<p>but hey, thanks again. i think i'll just go along with my parents' plan. columbia and unc are still on the list. if i can do ED on the former then my parents won't have a choice. if i end up in RD warfare then i'm sure that i can convince them to let me go to the school that'll almost automatically let me in for free.</p>
<p>Sounds good. Just do well regardless of what university you go to.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i never really felt it was risky because if i can't get into unc then something is terribly wrong with the universe.
[/quote]
risk of what? It sounds like you're in great shape to get into UNC which is really excellent school ... so there is little risk of not getting into a good school. However, if other schools, which are tougher to get into, are more of a draw to you than the 5 applications is risky ... risky in the sense of the odds of getting into at least one of these schools you like more (Amherst, Macalester, etc are all tough to get into even with a great application).</p>
<p>if theres more than one major you are considering (like me, business and engineering), you may need to apply to more schools, simply because there are so few that overlap in being great at both.</p>
<p>You want some reasons not to go to princeton? K here you go... </p>
<p>1) The student body is often known as arrogant. It is also (although unrelated to arrogance) populated mostly by those who enjoy dressing "preppy." (take that as you will)
2) The eating clubs are often known to be selective, elitist, and unwelcoming to those outside their own group. Although there are some which are known to be the opposite.
3) princeton is a tiny town when compared to nyc, it doesn't offer the same oppertunity to "get lost", in other words its hard to be annonymous. (which can be both good and bad).
4) while princeton often does well in many athletic competitions against the other ivy leagues, it in no way compares to the caliber of high profile sports elsewhere.</p>
<p>The main reason why I chose not to go to princeton is because of the majority of the student body. obviously there are many different types of people at princeton and elsewhere, and to stereotype the entire campus with words like arrogance and "preppyness" is probably not completely accurate. that said, in the majority these stereotypes hold true. people don't simple invent stereotypes out of thin air there is usually a slice of truth to them. and when I first visited(and when I've visited since then -- after the application process was over) I found those stereotypes to be - as I said earlier - true for the majority.</p>
<p>About the eating clubs, it would be more accurate to say "some eating clubs are selective" rather than "the eating clubs are often known to be selective'; the eating clubs fall into those which will take in anyone, and those in which you need to 'bicker' (sort of like audition) for. It's unfair to assume that because a club is selective, that they are elitist and unwelcoming, or that they are any worse than frats or sororities anywhere else. People who feel they shouldn't have to bicker to get into a club join the non-bicker clubs. According to the alums in my area, it's actually easy to get into the clubs which choose their members; if you don't get in your first try and that particular club is so important to you, you'll make it in on your second or third try.</p>
<p>About stereotypes, dartmyth makes a good points that all stereotypes have a slice of truth in them. However in this case, any stereotype of an attitude at Princeton that it is more elitist than at any other Ivy/selective uni is a carry-over from the way it was a long time ago as a mainly male school with few racial minorities (not so different from the way many schools back then were). This exclusion is widely recognized to be a thing of the past, esp with Princeton's finaid policy that offers to cover all students' costs to 100% so that they will graduate without debt, and Pres. Tilghlman's leadership in closing the gender gap at all universities/in research. The stereotype mentioned is simply not one that represents the present or even recent past. Keep in mind too that Yale and Harvard are often each characterized as 'arrogant' and 'elitist', and Cornell is the school where everyone commits suicide. Yikes. These too are misleading stereotypes.</p>
<p>I like how you're asking people in the Princeton forum to get your stepdad to NOT make you apply to Princeton. How about going to the Dartmouth or Penn forums? Though that sounds excessively malicious.</p>
<p>My friend was forced to apply ED and got in. I don't think he's complaining or anything.</p>