My daughter has developed an interest in US Government and History and may want to pursue Economics/Government as a major in college.
While she is in an IB Diploma program - she will not have the opportunity to take any US Government classes.
As it is a subject she is interested in independently studying does it make sense to study it either in the context of preparing to take an AP test in US Government, an SAT subject test in US History or just study it for the sake of knowledge?
It appears from a quick look that some schools that used to required SAT subject tests are moving away from that requirement with the new SAT and just requiring SAT with writing.
I also understand that AP tests are not generally seen by admissions counselors. So this would not be a way for her to demonstrate an interest in the subject.
I don’t think any of those are necessary. She can state her interest – they do not necessarily expect a student with no opportunity to take courses in those areas to have done so. I suspect she may find those AP and Subject Tests would be challenging if she hasn’t come up through the US education system, too. I think it makes more sense for her to engage in those areas where you live as a general topic (politics, for example).
We lived outside the US when my eldest was in HS. For college, there is no need for her to take AP tests as she will be taking IB. But if she is interested in US Government as a major, it might be worthwhile for her to explore it somewhat for her own sake…
For SAT2…only need to take them if you are applying to colleges that require them
If you’re applying to colleges that require the SAT II tests (or highly selective colleges that “recommend” them - i.e. most applicants will have scores), literature and a language are two possibilities. Especially if your D is looking at economics/government/history. Colleges know the history exams are tailored to AP curricula, while econ and government don’t fall under the purview of any SAT II subject.
What level of colleges will she apply to? Yes, she can report AP scores on the Common App and adcoms will see them. But since she’s in IB, can she take an online course, rather than self study? With that, the presumption is she followed some curriculum.
Pretty much any subject test would be more highly valued than AP Gov, which is not even recognized by some really selective colleges. In other words, no credit for a 5.
I see this a bit differently. If your D hasn’t grown up in the US, she probably knows less about the American political system than many kids who did grow up here. If she is sincerely interested in studying US history and/or government, she may find when she gets to college that professors assume everyone has a better background in these subjects than she has.
It was a long time ago, but my own kid took the AP government test and scored a 5 without taking a course or doing any studying specifically for the exam. My kid knew a heck of a lot about US government because of ECs and from rabidly following current events. So, she too the AP and did well on it. There was never any intent to use it to get course credit; it was just a way of demonstrating that my kid was interested in and knew a lot about the subject.
I’d suggest your D start out taking a practice SAT II in US history and practice APs in US history and US government. See how well she scores without studying to get some idea of how much she knows. Pay no attention to percentiles, especially in US history. If she isn’t scoring at least 650 or so, I’d recommend that she do some studying—NOT to get course credit, but to make sure she isn’t at a disadvantage compared to her classmates, almost all of whom will have taken at least one year long US history test.
Thanks everyone! You are correct - she will be coming from a deficit in US History and US Government. Right now she is really motivated to study in both areas. She does follow news/politics very closely.
She will be applying to selective/highly selective colleges I believe. (Just finished 10th so no firm list set yet). Right now her top choice is Barnard.
I’m going to order her some materials to start reading through for her own education. I will probably order an AP book just to structure her reading around certain topics.
Exactly. And that is ostensibly bcos they do not offer a course similar to AP Gov (for which it might earn credit), or if they do offer such a course they find the AP ver wanting; i.e., AP Lite. In any event, that course in an of itself is not much help in admissions.
Actually, that is/was my point. AP Gov is a so-called AP Lite. It’s not even a full semester course in our HS (on a regular, not block schedule). As you noted with your D, it is easy to self-study to a 5. And, adcoms are no dummies; they know that it is easy to self-study. IMO, a high 700 US Hist would be much more impressive.
IMO, a high 750+ US Hist/Eng Lit would be much more helpful to admissions.
So I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue, Jonri.
I’d posit that it’s the fact that AP Gov is an AP lite, not that there is not similar course. **Very ** few colleges offer the equivalent race-through-the-ages USH course, but most still offer credit.
To the OP: I really would not spin my wheels on this. All US colleges are aware that few HS’s outside the US offer courses on US Gov or USH. Your D will not be at a disadvantage.
I don’t think she needs to take either the US History or Gov SAT or AP. No one expects someone studying abroad to have taken courses that would prepare them for them. She’s in an IB program which is recognized and she can take SAT subject tests in areas for which she wouldn’t need extra preparation if she’s applying to schools that require or recommend them.
That said, if she’s interested in pursuing American government or history as part of her major, she will be at a disadvantage is she doesn’t get some background. The US History AP prep books are one way, though she might prefer a text book - a little easier to read and will include illustrations and the like. There’s a long list of suggestions at the College Board site: http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/courses/us_history_textbook_list.html Our kids in addition to the standard textbooks also read Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States, and *April 1865 - The Month that saved America *. They read some original documents as well - some of the Federalist Papers, Thomas Paine, Gettysburgh address, The Four Freedoms speech. Stuff like that. In her shoes I might also read the Hamilton bio that inspired the musical.
Why doesn’t she just read some good books on the subject? There are a tremendous number of well written books on American history topics. Maybe she could use something like an AP study guide as a framework for reading authors such as David McCullough (1776, John Adams, et al), Doris Kearns Goodwin (Team of Rivals et al), Ron Chernow (Hamilton), The Federalist Papers, Frederick Douglass’ autobiography, Joseph Ellis, Stephen Ambrose, and others too numerous to mention.
Some historical fiction wouldn’t hurt, either. I’d particularly recommend the vintage authors Kenneth Roberts, with the exception of Lydia Bailey and Walter Edmonds (Drums Along the Mohawk). I know there are tons of others, but the editing deadline looms.
Other fiction: Mary Lee Settle’s Beulah Quintet. Michael Shaara (Cannot recommend The Killer Angels too highly. I wouldn’t read his son’s books.) John Dos Passos’ USA trilogy is a superb portrait of an era.
I teach AP US History - I agree with above posts that it is not necessary for your D to take tests in them for admissions. BUT if she is planning to major. (In part) in gov’t in the US, there will be an assumption in her classes that she is familiar with how the US gov’t works. While all the bios above are excellent- I might recommend reading something with a larger scope for overall feel. Also, Zinn, while excellent (I use excerpts with my class) has a strong- non traditional slant, and might not be the best “intro” book. For US History I recommend “Give Me Liberty” by Eric Foner. I also strongly recommend John Green’s YouTube series “Crash course US History” - entertaining 15 min segments. The crash course channel also has gov’t videos. I have not watched the gov’t ones, but my students have- it’s a different guy and they like Green better.
I would think more of those are textbook based- which can be a little dry. Ethel Wood does a great series of “condensed” AP textbooks in a wide variety of social studies subjects (my kids use them as supplements in AP euro and AP world) which could be helpful in presenting the basics of the US system.
