Please Help Someone who is Overwhelmed, Confused, and Scared about College

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello everyone, </p>

<p>I’m a rising senior and new to this whole college application and selection process. Frankly, I’m pretty clueless and a bit scared about the entire thing. My parents are not so helpful as they did not study in the US (we are all naturalized citizens). If you could help, I would greatly appreciate it.</p>

<p>I’m a pretty good student. I have a 4.0 GPA and a 35 ACT. As of now, I am set to graduate first of my class and I’ll try to stay in the top 5% of my class. There are about 350 people in my class. I like to challenge myself with my courses because I have a passion for learning as well. I live in Michigan.</p>

<p>When it comes to financial aid, my family makes slightly more than the upper limits of the income level for financial aid. While I am grateful for this, it also means that we’ll be paying the sticker price at most, if not all, universities. For those universities where the tuition + room and board + fees are $50k+/yr, this is not feasible for us. Thus, I’d like to know about universities where there is academic merit aid (non-need based please) or where the full cost of attendance is lower.</p>

<p>In terms of prestige, I don’t care much. I am not one of those Ivy-or-bust kids. I would just like to go to a good school that fits me and isn’t really expensive.</p>

<p>Things I’m looking for in a college:
• Lots of Research opportunities
• Ample study abroad—especially to Africa, Middle East, and Eastern Europe
• An active student volunteer service—I love volunteering and really want to continue it in college
• Tutoring services—Tutoring is something I do currently and I find teaching to be something I am passionate about; I would also like a place where others can help me in difficult coursework if need be
• Arabic courses available—I don’t care if it’s just courses, a minor, or a major at the school
• Math major available
• Chemistry major available
• An environment that isn’t extremely competitive or cutthroat—I’m one of the more laidback kids in my school when it comes to grades and such
• An environment conducive to learning with smaller class sizes and faculty having some interest in undergraduate teaching—I just don’t want to be “just a number” in college or someone who is lost in a crowd of people
• A school that has some school pride—don't want to go to a place where the students are miserable and hate their school
• I would also like if archery is available on campus or in the nearby city/town. This is not mandatory at all though and I could live without it if need be.</p>

<p>Another important thing to me is that there is a Muslim presence on campus. It doesn’t have to be huge or politically active. I just would like for there to be others I can relate to in terms of religion. Would it be possible to request my roommate in college to have the same religion as me? I’m religious and might find it uncomfortable or possibly difficult to practice my faith openly with a person of another faith. Moreover, I won’t fit in with the whole stereotypical college scene characterized by drugs, alcohol, parties, and relationships. I’m sorry if I seem conservative but, to me, this is a concern.</p>

<p>My prospective areas of study are mathematics, chemistry, and Arabic. Medicine is something I would like to go into and would like to pursue as well. I realize that the field is very competitive, so if something unfortunate occurs, I would still like to continue my education past undergrad regardless of that and might go to grad school if need be. </p>

<p>If you need any more information from me, I would be happy to provide it. I really need this help so thanks for taking your time in considering my problem. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>Edit: Also, I think applying to more than 7 or 8 schools would be excessive, so I would like to have a list of about 4 to 8 or so.</p>

<p>I think on the PSAT, I am a National Merit Commended Scholar but not a semi-finalist or finalist--now I wish I took the test seriously :-(</p>

2

<p>Look at LACs like Grinnell. You would qualify for good merit aid.</p>

3

<p>Thank you for the very quick reply Blueash. I will look into Grinnell.</p>

<p>I forgot to mention, but right now on my tentative list I am considering Michigan State, U of Michigan, Rice University, and Case Western. Rice and Case are giving me app fee waivers (not sure why, but I’ll take them I guess) so they’ll probably stay on my list. I think Rice also fits a lot on my list (not sure though). Do you think they fit me? Am I aiming too high?</p>

4

<p>Case is pretty expensive, but they do have merit-biased aid. I’m hoping some of that will be coming my way too!
Rice would probably be pretty expensive, and I don’t know what kind of merit aid they have, but I’m sure you’re more than qualified to get in.</p>

<p>If it helps, you’re not the only one that’s scared about finding and applying to college. Good luck!</p>

5

<p>With those stats you will be able to get a large merit scholarship at many schools. You may want to choose a safety school from these that provide automatic merit awards based on stats:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>sidebar: what are LACs?</p>

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<p>LAC = liberal arts college</p>

<p>This is a slight misnomer, since many non-LACs offer a wide and deep selection of liberal arts subjects and courses (note: liberal arts includes science as well as humanities and social studies). LACs mainly refer to smaller (typically under 3,000 students) schools which are undergraduate focused and emphasize small faculty-led classes and interaction with faculty at all levels (as opposed to big classes at the freshman and sophomore level common at many non-LACs). LACs usually offer mainly liberal arts subjects and courses, though some offer pre-professional subjects and courses like engineering. The smaller size means that some LACs emphasize particular areas, resulting in limited offerings in other areas (e.g. Harvey Mudd emphasizes science, but does not even have majors in humanities and social studies, although it offers courses in those subjects for breadth requirements).</p>

8

<p>How advanced are you in math? If you are very advanced, then you may find a big school like Michigan to be more suitable for you for math, since very advanced math students often skip the large freshman and sophomore level courses and go straight to junior, senior, and graduate level courses in math. You may want to check the course catalogs at each school to see how many and which upper level math courses there are.</p>

<p>Note that pre-med does not require any specific major – just the pre-med courses taken alongside any major (which may be math or Arabic, as well as the more common chemistry or biology).</p>

9

<p>Check out the University of Oregon. I chose it specifically because it has a laid-back atmosphere, small class sizes compared to peer institutions, and undergrad research opportunities. There’s some intense school spirit, especially revolving around our incredible athletic teams.</p>

<p>Study abroad programs - [Study</a> Abroad](<a href=“http://studyabroad.uoregon.edu/]Study”>http://studyabroad.uoregon.edu/)
Undergrad research - [UO</a> Undergraduate Research Directory](<a href=“http://libweb.uoregon.edu/general/uresearch.html]UO”>http://libweb.uoregon.edu/general/uresearch.html)
Service learning program - [Service</a> Learning Program > Home](<a href=“Website is Disabled”>http://serve.uoregon.edu/)
Teaching and Learning Center - [UO</a> University Teaching and Learning Center](<a href=“http://tlc.uoregon.edu/]UO”>http://tlc.uoregon.edu/)
Arabic studies - [Arabic</a> Studies - University of Oregon](<a href=“http://arabic.uoregon.edu/]Arabic”>http://arabic.uoregon.edu/)
Math - [University</a> of Oregon: Department of Mathematics](<a href=“http://math.uoregon.edu/]University”>http://math.uoregon.edu/)
Chem - [The</a> University of Oregon Department of Chemistry](<a href=“http://chemistry.uoregon.edu/]The”>http://chemistry.uoregon.edu/)
Archery club - [UO</a> Archery Club](<a href=“http://pages.uoregon.edu/uoarcher/]UO”>http://pages.uoregon.edu/uoarcher/)
Muslim Student Association - [Home[/url</a>]
Pre-med/Pre-health program - [url=&lt;a href=“http://advising.uoregon.edu/AA_Pages/AA_PreProfAdvising.html]Undergraduate”&gt;http://advising.uoregon.edu/AA_Pages/AA_PreProfAdvising.html]Undergraduate</a> Studies, University of Oregon - Academic Advising - Pre-Professional Advising -](<a href=“http://pages.uoregon.edu/msa/]Home[/url”>MSA@ UO)</p>

<p>I think it’s a great match for you. Message me if you have any more questions; I’d be glad to help you out!</p>

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<p>^ Why would you pay nearly $40K/year to attend the University of Oregon if you are a Michigan resident and can attend one of the best public universities in the country (the University of Michigan) for about $24K? For a full-pay student with your stats, Michigan is the school to beat. Any school that is objectively “better” (in any of the usual ways people measure these things) probably would cost at least $25K/year more at full sticker costs. </p>

<p>A number of good, fairly selective LACs (Beloit, Centre College, Rhodes, etc.) might give you enough merit aid to bring the cost down almost to Michigan levels … but then, they may not meet all your criteria (strong math majors, research opportunities, Muslim presence, etc.) However, they do offer small classes and total focus on undergraduates. Grinnell and Davidson College probably are the most selective LACs that offer a lot of merit aid. ([Best</a> Values in Private Colleges, 2011-12](<a href=“Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts”>Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts))</p>

<p>A few public universities do have out-of-state sticker costs lower than Michigan’s in-state costs. Check out the University of Minnesota at Morris or Truman State. For guaranteed big merit scholarships for students with stats like yours, many posters are recommending the University of Alabama. (<a href=“http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/colleges/[/url]”>Best College Values, 2019 | Kiplinger)</p>

<p>The most selective private research universities (Ivies, etc.) usually don’t offer merit scholarships. Exceptions include Duke and the University of Chicago, but the competition would be fierce (and the typical scholarship amounts wouldn’t necessarily be enough for you). Case Western is a less selective possibility. (<a href=“http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/privatecolleges/[/url]”>Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts)</p>

<p>If you’re female, check out some of the women’s colleges. Smith, Mt. Holyoke, and Bryn Mawr all offer merit aid. They also belong to college consortiums (which greatly expand the available course offerings beyond the limits of a small LAC).</p>

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<p>Thank you astults. In my school, it seems as if everyone here is confident and ready about college. I feel like I’m the only one who’s not as sure about the future.</p>

<p>ucbalumnus,
I took AP Calc BC this year and I’m expecting a 4 or 5 on the exam. I will take Multivariate Calculus (for the 1st semester) and Linear Algebra (for the 2nd semester) at a local college, as well as AP Stats at my high school, for next year.</p>

<p>Though I appreciate your help and your school pride ckr4282, like tk21769 points out, I don’t think it would be wise to go to a large public school with expensive out-of-state tuition. I would also not like to venture out that far from home.</p>

<p>I’ve heard that at Michigan some students feel lost in a crowd and that professors don’t really care about them in the least. Is this true or are these just false rumors? Is there undergrad focus there?</p>

<p>Oh, and I’m male.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>That is a potential downside for many students at big state universities.</p>

<p>Consider the class size distribution at Michigan:
48% < 20 students, 36% 20-49 students, 16% > 50 students</p>

<p>Now compare that to the class size distribution at Beloit (a midwestern LAC that offers merit scholarships, averaging ~$14K, to about 60% of enrolled students):
73% < 20 students, 27% 20-49 students, 0% > 50 students.</p>

<p>These figures probably understate the differences. Michigan’s small-class figure (48%) is suppressed by a large number of low-enrollment, upper-level classes. At the critical introductory and intermediate levels, especially in popular subjects in your first two years, you would probably experience much larger classes at a big state school like Michigan than at a small LAC like Beloit.</p>

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<p>alNasir, I can assure you - you’re certainly not the only rising senior at your school who is nervous and unsure about the future. Some of your classmates may be very good at masking their uncertainty, but I can promise you it’s there.</p>

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<p>It’s very unlikely that you will be allowed to request a Muslim room-mate. Generally, one of the purposes of going to college is to learn to live (sometimes in close proximity) with people who are different from you. This could include students who are gay, atheists, or politically very liberal. The two of you will have to practice mutual respect and work out how to handle your differences. After freshman year, you can generally choose your room-mate and can pick someone who is sympatico.</p>

<p>One thing you can do is opt for substance-free housing on campus: Many schools offer that option to students. It doesn’t mean that no one in the dorm drinks or smokes or uses ‘substances’ - but it means that most don’t, and if they do, they do it somewhere else, not in your dorm or in your room. S lived sub-free for 4 years (and yes, he drank the occasional beer at a party), but he really valued that most of the kids in his dorm didn’t have social lives that revolved around the party scene. You are also likely to meet more socially conservative Muslim kids in those dorms.</p>

<p>And most schools have ample study abroad opportunities. It’s a huge industry overseas so most schools have contracts with many of the same programs. Often, if you want to study abroad and your school doesn’t have a pre-existing relationship in a country you want to study in, they will usually accept credits from a program in that country, approved in advance, that other reputable schools have relationships with. So don’t let this be a barrier.</p>

<p>I would also recommend you apply to the top schools (HYPMS) because they have very generous financial aid and scholarship policies and conservative Muslims are atypical applicants. Your profile will differentiate you from other top students. On the other hand, that atmosphere at those school is very intense - not laid back, except perhaps at Stanford, where CA culture trumps individual intensity (and they also have a very sizable Muslim population, albeit many are grad students).</p>

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<p>Grinnell may or may not be a fit. Generous financial and merit aid. Outstanding chem and bio depts and great prep for pre-meds. Palatial facilities. S just graduated - bio chem major - and is off to med school along with 20+ class-mates. It meets all your criteria (except maybe archery) AND offers sub-free housing. 11% of the student body is international and there is a Muslim Student Association. But…</p>

<p>This is a very liberal school. It has a strong, visible gay presence on campus. The president and his partner are gay fathers to two small boys, and Kington is committed to making the school a welcoming place for diversity. That includes observant Muslims - but you have to feel comfortable too. There is a drinking culture on campus, as there is at many small town LACs - although the academic intensity keeps it mostly confined to weekends. And Iowa is not driving distance from home.</p>

16

<p>Okay, this may seem like an odd suggestion, but take a look at St. Olaf in Minnesota (also not an easy drive, I’m afraid). There probably won’t be a large number of Muslims, but you won’t be alone - there is a Muslim students’ association. When I did a search for the word “Muslim” on the schools website, I came up with [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.stolaf.edu/depts/sociology/major/373/373final_papers_2004/muslim.html]this[/url”&gt;http://www.stolaf.edu/depts/sociology/major/373/373final_papers_2004/muslim.html]this[/url</a>] - a research paper written a few years back (apparently by a St. Olaf student) titled “Being Muslim at St.Olaf.” It might be worth reading even if you have no interest in the school . . . I would guess that many of the students’ experiences at St. Olaf are shared by Muslim students at other colleges.</p>

<p>Regarding study abroad (which is what made me think of St. Olaf in the first place), St. Olaf ranked 1st “among baccalaureate institutions” in the total number of students studying abroad for the 2009–10 academic year, and earned the same distinction for the two prior years as well. In addition to semester and year-abroad programs, St. Olaf also has a January “interim term” program that includes several options for study abroad. Current interim term programs are listed [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.stolaf.edu/international/interimprograms/index.html]here[/url”&gt;http://www.stolaf.edu/international/interimprograms/index.html]here[/url</a>]. Do a quick search of the page for “Morocco” and “Budapest” to find two programs that I thought looked particularly interesting for a math student, especially one interested in both Arabic language and travel to Eastern Europe and Africa!</p>

<p>Total cost of attendance is just over 50k, but St. Olaf does offer several merit scholarships. They’re listed [url=&lt;a href=“Financial Aid – St Olaf College's Financial Aid Website”&gt;http://www.stolaf.edu/services/financialaid/meritaid.html]here[/url</a>].</p>

<p>St. Olaf does have some kind of Arabic language program (beginning and intermediate only at the moment, I believe, although I might be mistaken about that).</p>

<p>And, in addition to all of the above, it’s a dry campus - no drinking.</p>

<p>You might find it not to be a good fit for you . . . but it’s probably worth taking a look at, at the very least to give you an idea of the kinds of programs that are out there.</p>

<p>And, in the interest of full disclosure, I am not an alumna, none of my children have every attended this school, and I don’t believe I know anyone who has. I just find what the school offers (especially the interim program) to be particularly interesting.</p>

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<p>You fit the profile of a student who would skip most of the freshman and sophomore level math in college and would be interested in taking graduate level math courses as an undergraduate, if you major in math. Note that some universities combine linear algebra and differential equations into one course, so if you can fit differential equations into your schedule this coming year, you won’t have to do a partial repeat of the course after you go to the university.</p>

<p>With respect to roommates in dorms, if you know someone in particular who was assigned to the same dorm, you and the other person can request each other.</p>

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<p>Or socially conservative not-necessarily-Muslim students, or students with socially conservative parents…</p>

18

<p>M’s Mom,
Sorry for the misunderstanding, but, though I am a conservative Shi`i Muslim, I am tolerant of others. I would prefer a college that isn’t too overtly liberal (maybe like Reed or something) or too overtly conservative (like Hillsdale). Also, driving distance from home is not necessary. It’s just that the west coast seems pretty far from here in Michigan. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Furthermore, though I may have some chance at getting accepted to top schools, I would not qualify for much or any financial aid, even though Cornell and Stanford are appealing schools.</p>

<p>It’s just that everyday I wake up before sunrise for prayer, which would probably be not something a non-Muslim roommate would appreciate. Also I might find it uncomfortable to practice my faith in front of others. In addition to other things, I cannot prevent a roommate from bringing in alcohol or drugs, which are not only impermissible in my faith but also ritually impure substances. I hope this better explicates my dilemma and my concerns. </p>

<p>Thank you tk for that explanation. I appreciate it.</p>

<p>Thank you dodgersmom for the article you provided. I’ll also look into St. Olaf.</p>

<p>So ucbalumnus, if I knew somebody enrolling at Michigan, MSU, Case, etc. who was a Muslim I could relate with, would I be able to room with said person?</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for your help so far!</p>

19

<p>Almost all colleges and universities that offer on-campus housing will let you request a specific roommate for your freshman year. It is OK to email the housing offices and ask about this. If you are still in the dorm your second year, you will definitely be able to choose your roommate(s).</p>

<p>Some colleges and universities have dorms where most of the rooms are singles, or apartment-style housing where each student has his/her own room but they share bathrooms, living room, kitchen, etc. Those could work for you too.</p>

<p>Lastly, find out about off-campus living for freshmen. Some universities don’t have enough on-campus space for everyone, and they are perfectly happy when students live off-campus instead.</p>

20

<p>OP, I’m not implying that you are intolerant: Those who are personally conservative are fully capable of being respectful of those who are different - but that doesn’t mean it’s a comfortable experience and being comfortable your first year away from home is important. For this reason we would not send our socially liberal kid to a conservative school. Of course, he would be respectful if he were in that position - but he also doesn’t want to be part of a small minority and feel as though he has to constantly explain and defend his views. It’s not a fun way to spend four years. </p>

<p>happymomof1, I’m not aware of any schools that give freshman singles except for medical reasons. Not that they don’t exist, but I think they are pretty unusual. I also think it’s much more common at large state universities to request a specific room-mate as a freshman: I’m not aware of that as an option at most private universities or LACs (like St. Olaf or Grinnell). I could be wrong about this - maybe no one I know exercised this option - it’s definitely worth speaking to the housing office about. (Likewise, check up on halal dining options.)</p>

<p>People make assumptions about how much financial aid they are eligible for without realizing that the top schools - some of the wealthiest in the country - can be more generous than they expect. Run the financial calculators at some of these schools to be sure, before you rule them out.</p>

<p>Lastly, once you have to get on an airplane, does it really matter how far the school is (assuming we are talking two time zones at most)? Skype means you can talk face to face every night if you want to. Cell phones mean you can make a quick call whenever you need to hear a friendly voice. (And after your freshman year, your desire to come home will decrease noticeably! Too many better offers, generally.) Don’t let the distance per se be a barrier. Now if being within driving distance to home is important to you, that’s a different matter. Many families want their kids within driving distance for a variety of reasons that make sense.</p>