<p>My D is a Junior with a 3.1 GPA from a top-ranked public HS. No SAT/ACT scores yet. She is in her schools Theater Rep, Chorus, Madrigals, and student-run A Cappella group (all audition-based). Sometimes she gets huge leads in HS, community theater, and camp, (both MT and Acting) but not always. She has won a national award for acting, and has starred in a college short film which did very well in the festivals (she fell in love with acting on film). She is taking voice lessons and ballet to bring up her skills to feel more confident for audition-required schools, and she will probably work with some coaches soon. So far, weve mostly been looking at BA/BFA Musical Theater programs, but I think we may be missing some very good choices for her by not looking at Acting programs where there is no MT department. There must be Acting programs which produce musicals regularly and offer voice and dance training as electives. We are not looking at schools which cost over $38k for tuition, room & board. She would probably be happiest in a mid-sized to large school. I would prefer to find a program, whether BA or BFA, with a high number of Gen Ed requirements so if she has a change of heart she would have credits to transfer to another Major or school. Dream school would have great training but not cut, no competition with Grad students or MT students for roles in productions, and have a great Arts Admin or Entertainment/Music Industry double-major or Minor option. She also prefers performing-based classes to theater history. Please help us expand our list!</p>
<p>Since you sound as if you are more interested in a traditional university or liberal arts college environment, I think you should get your daughter’s SAT/ACT scores first. Her grades are decent, but unspectacular - they should pass muster for most BFA programs, but might not be good enough if her test scores aren’t solid (especially the verbal scores). Fordham Lincoln Center might be a promising possibility. They have no Musical Theater major, but they have a very strong dance program: she can take classes at Alvin Ailey school nearby; their dance majors train with Ailey. They require a full liberal arts curriculum (including lab science, which discourages some theater students). Unfortunately, like all the schools in Manhattan, it has a very steep price tag, but financial aid is available. DePaul has done away with its notorious cut system, and they have general education requirements; it is difficult for Acting majors to double-major, but they offer programs in management and education. They charge over $40k, but significantly less than the NYC schools. Any of the programs based at state universities will be less expensive, especially for state residents, but they are stingy about financial aid for out-of-staters. You might consider Temple: they have a good program (non-audition), and their price-tag isn’t too high. They are fairly selective, especially for out-of-staters, and so her test scores will probably be a critical factor.</p>
<p>Virgina Commonwealth University in Richmond produces musicals and has electives in dance and musical theatre performance. Towson University and University of MD College Park also occasionally produce musicals, as does Radford University.</p>
<p>Adelphi University (just west of Queens, on LI) has a BFA in Acting, and has wonderful Dance and Music depts, as well as writing, film and other media studies. They have a very nice liberal arts component and the ability to minor (but not double major with the BFA). The yearly cost of attendance ends up being in the mid-30K/year, and they have nice scholarships for B+ students. The university has about 5,000 undergrads in dozens of programs.</p>
<p>There are no grad students, and while freshmen (by policy) are not cast on mainstage, there are lots of performance opportunities, and lots of immersion in general theatre experience. Casting is guaranteed from sophomore year onward, and auditions are not open to the general university community. The goal is for everyone to leave with Acting training AND the ability to get a job in other areas of theatre (tech, design, directing, writing, etc.). They are also developing a performing arts management program with a new Dean. Adelphi is very strong in internships as well.</p>
<p>They do put on some musicals, and operas, although their focus definitely is on “straight” theatre. Many of the Acting kids are MT fans, however - seems like all of them are in my D’s freshman class - and lots of them take voice or dance lessons. This might not be “enough” MT for your D, but I’m posting this for others who might be reading these threads as well.</p>
<p>It might be worth a look. It’s less expensive and a tiny bit less selective than the big name BFAs, while offering an excellent program and wonderful opportunities.</p>
<p>Look into Hofstra. There is no audition to be admitted. You start in a BA Drama track. There is an option in the middle of the second year to audition for a BFA in Theater Arts (with a concentration in Performance) and also to audition for their MT Minor. Their production season includes musicals (this year they are doing RENT).</p>
<p>It would help in your college search to have an SAT score and if you don’t, then a PSAT score as a starting point, and if you don’t, then a score from a timed practice test as a baseline. Your D’s GPA is not meaningful without knowing the rigor of the curriculum she has taken, as well as her class rank or percentile in the class. </p>
<p>University of the Arts doesn’t have the wide range of Gen. Ed. programs that you seem to want but they do have a MT Minor that can be combined with the BFA in Acting. Starting next year, they will have a Music Business program.</p>
<p>And Marymount Manhattan may not be your ideal size but you can do a BA in Theater Arts with a MT Minor (this is by audition) and they also have programs (major or minor) in Arts Management.</p>
<p>You may want to look into Muhlenberg where your D can study theater, music and dance in combination and they also have an Arts Administration concentration. The school has a Test Optional option for admissions as well. Slightly over your budget.</p>
<p>In terms of cost, be willing to look at some schools that are a bit over budget as there may be a chance to get merit aid (for academics or talent) or need based aid and so the final price may not be the sticker price.</p>
<p>You asked about expanding your D’s list but have not mentioned which schools are already in consideration.</p>
<p>I cant think of any perfect marriages for you in the BFA Acting world, but you might want to look into UNCSA and UM Guthrie. Theyre both lacking some of your criteria, but theyre in your price range and at least include some MT training on which you can expand on your own time. I dont think UM Guthrie actually does many musicals while UNCSA does a couple a year to my understanding. You might also take a look at Southern Oregon U. Im not very familiar with their program, but it seems like Ive seen something about them doing some musicals and Ive heard some noise indicating they may be on the rise. The potential is there to create a tippy top program if they can ever manage to build a partnership with the Oregon Shakespeare Festival like U Minnesota did with the Guthrie.</p>
<p>Agree with fishbowl that it will be hard to find many schools that meet ALL of your criteria. Often a college list is made up of schools that meet some, but not all of a person’s selection criteria and then once acceptances are in hand, they can narrow to the school that most closely aligns with more of their criteria. Often you have to give in one area (like size of school) to get in another (type of program) and so on. In my opinion, as there is a finite number of BFA programs, it is most important to find the program that is the best match and the other aspects of the university become secondary considerations and it is different than selecting a BA college.</p>
<p>Soozie, that is very good advice. My D didn’t get into the one program that she thought would meet “all” of her criteria - and maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn’t - some criteria can’t be guaranteed, after all (like how she would have felt about the people in her class, relationships with professors, etc.). But when she chose among her very nice group of acceptances she DID focus on program. There have been things about the school she has wished were different, but they definitely were “secondary” considerations. Everything she knew about the program and what she could get from her education there has been what she had anticipated (both in theatre and in liberal arts).</p>
<p>And it is also true that when you choose a BFA, it is very difficult to be sure that you could stay at that school for a BA if the BFA doesn’t work out. They are such different degrees, and there are only a few schools that offer both degrees in theatre, or where there is a smooth transition between the two programs. </p>
<p>I think because my D’s chosen BFA school wasn’t “perfect” in every way she had a very clear opportunity to decide just how much she wanted a BFA over a BA. While that decision was somewhat stressful, it gave her an opportunity to put her heart first and take a risk on what she wanted most - even if she might have found later that it wasn’t right for her. For us, choosing what she wanted right now was more important than worrying about 3, 5, 10 years in the future. Trying to do that was too painful, and literally paralyzing for her.</p>
<p>If a kid might have a broad spectrum of interests, passions, etc., it is very important to include all options in the application list. You can always turn down an acceptance, but you can’t pull an option out of thin air in April of senior year if you didn’t apply. This is a reason why theatre kids often have twice as many schools on their list as “regular” kids - not to increase their acceptance rates, but to increase their options when decision time comes.</p>
<p>Not to pooh-pooh Fordham’s program by any means, my S is VERY happy there. But he is also an MT kid at heart and he would LOVE it if they did just one musical even every few years…and they don’t. He will be taking “Song As Theatre” next semester with Alison Fraser and he is very excited about it but this is the first time he will have worked on his voice and it will be his 4th semester. And as for dance, the Alvin Ailey school is tops but not easy to fit their classes into a Theatre major’s schedule ESPECIALLY with a double major or minor. I have to be honest here, my S thought going in that he might be able to “create” his own MT program but he just doesn’t have the time. </p>
<p>Fordham LC is a small school, the full pay price tag is $55k without a meal plan, and the average GPA is 3.7. I am just not sure it’s a very good fit for your D.</p>
<p>I agree with other recommendations though especially Hofstra which does not audition incoming freshman for acceptance to the school or Drama program (yes, auditions come later as soozievt said in an earlier post) but you CAN audition for a talent grant. Good luck! :)</p>
<p>Just adding a thought that didn’t occur to me last night. I’m still not sure Fordham will be the right fit for your D overall but you know her and I’m just basing my opinion off of your description in your original post…and if she IS interested in Fordham, she might want to consider majoring in Music with a Theatre minor as opposed to the other way around which complicates the scheduling. In fact, there might even be kids who have successfully double majored between the two, I just don’t know of any. My S did not choose music but he is completing a double major and while it is difficult, he IS getting it done. </p>
<p>And I’m not saying that there is never any music or an occasional song in any of the shows that Fordham puts up, they just don’t put up musicals. One of the directing majors wanted to do Assassins last year and the department wouldn’t let him. My S was a little disappointed…he definitely would have auditioned for that one! If you do want any further info on Fordham, please feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Muhlenberg sounds like the perfect place for her! It has arts administration within its business program and has an MT program. It is a non-auditioned BA, as you probably know, and you may, indeed already have it on your list.</p>
<p>Muhlenberg offers talent money and merit money. She might qualify for the former (which does require an audition), but I doubt the latter (unless her SAT scores somehow are super-high or her GPA puts her in a high %ile at her HS).</p>
<p>Skidmore just added an arts adminstration program, too. They do not offer MT, but they do have jazz and tap in the dance program and private voice instruction. MT is through a student-run group. </p>
<p>I realize that Skidmore and Muhlenberg are on the smaller side than what you might be looking for, but I agree with the above posters that it will be difficult to find a school that has everything you’re looking for, so better to have various options and decide what factors are really most important, come April.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, Muhlenberg doesn’t have an MT program per se. However, it is possible to double major in music and theater or theater and dance (and then take voice lessons) and so on and to put together a MT “program” that way. They do put on musicals. As I wrote, it is a good option for your daughter, though is not as big of a college as you said she would prefer.</p>
<p>I agree that Skidmore is a very good option, but may be academically reachy for this girl but it is hard to say as there is not nearly enough information about her academic qualifications. But it is more selective than Muhlenberg.</p>
<p>First, thank you all for your very thoughtful responses! One day, I hope to have the opportunity to help as well.</p>
<p>My D attends a public high school ranked in the top 100 in the country (I’m trying not to sound obnoxious when I say that, but can’t find a way). Because the school is so highly ranked, college admissions are usually a little more forgiving with GPA because they know how rigorous the classes are (except for the most academically competitive schools). She is not a great test-taker and we will be immensely satisfied if she gets a 25 on the ACT.</p>
<p>I appreciate the advice about looking at schools a little above our price-range as long as they are schools who sometimes offer talent-based scholarships. We are not eligible for need-based aid. </p>
<p>If D goes the BA route, I would hesitate to have her attend a school where she will be in competition with BFAs.</p>
<p>I think one of the reasons I am having trouble with our list is that we are conflicted. Our D has been consistent in loving Acting and MT, but we are hesitant to have her graduate solely with training for that career considering what a tough industry it is. Therefore, we are willing to allow her to follow her heart, but want her to come out of college with an overall understanding of basics (Gen Ed), and hopefully other skills that would help her survive (arts admin, production, promotions/music business). I think she would be happiest skipping the Gen Ed reqs and go just for a BFA, but she knows our feelings and is grateful we are providing her with the funds for a college degree in Theater at all, which was after years of waffling on it. </p>
<p>You will see from my current list, we are a bit all over the place, but I have reasons for them all. Remember D is still a Junior so this will evolve as her grades and skills develop. In no particular order:</p>
<p>JMU - audition - BA-MT - love the program, but auditions mean it’s a reach. Music Industry Minor. Big school. </p>
<p>Northern Colorado - BA-MT – love the program, audition. Mid-sized. Cold.</p>
<p>Indiana U @ Bloomington – I don’t think we would allow her to do the BFA-MT program there because it is too specialized (almost no Gen Ed), but there is no BFA-Acting, just non-audition BA, and it’s a big department, so I am thinking it would still allow her performance opportunities and the ability to do the Arts Admin certificate. I need to call them to understand if I am right.</p>
<p>College of Charleston – BA Theater, performance concentration. Non-audition, bit of reach academically, mid-sized school in great location. Not much MT but allowed to audition for local community theater and there are lots of such opportunities. Able to take dance and private voice electives. Minor in Arts Management. </p>
<p>SUNY Oswego – non-audition BA Theater, MT track, Arts Mgmt Minor, great communications school just in case. 8000 students, safety school academically. Cold.</p>
<p>UNH – non-audition BA Theater, MT emphasis. Mid-sized. No great Minor</p>
<p>U of Alabama – BA Theater, MT track has audition, and cannot minor. BA-Acting not auditioned, possible minors in music or communications. If she switches from theater, they have a great Communications school. Big school.</p>
<p>Elon – Small, need to visit. If she likes it, so many smallish schools (5000 undergrads) could work for her, but she is pretty sure this would be too small. BFA-MT requires full liberal arts requirements. Audition – very difficult.</p>
<p>Indiana U of Pennsylvania – mid-sized, audition for BA-Interdisciplinary Fine Arts, MT; Minor in Entrepeneurship for Fine Arts. Does anyone know about the quality of the program?</p>
<p>A few schools on my list to research: Towson, Radford, UMD, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, Marhsall, URI, VCU, Adelphi (Muhlenberg is definitely too small, Skidmore too expensive)</p>
<p>Still think you should look into Hofstra.</p>
<p>When it comes to academics, WHAT your child took is as important as the GPA. The rigor of her curriculum will be viewed in the context of what her school offers. So, the degree of difficulty in coursework counts. Did she take the most difficult courses offered at her school? Above average in difficult? Etc. As well, GPA is just an average and the actual grades matter. Also, her class standing will matter. That means class rank or what percentile she is in her class. Do you have that information? Just saying that all of that information will be needed to assess her odds. You also should have her do a practice timed test to get a baseline (if she hasn’t already taken something like the PSATs).</p>
<p>Elon is pretty selective academically, not just the audition.</p>
<p>American University is worth looking into. Not sure if your D could get in as I don’t have enough information as to her qualifications.</p>
<p>Since you have UNH on your list I would consider also looking at Plymouth State University. It is an auditioned BA program. Has a strong business school, and opportunities in Music Technology (if that is an area of music industry that interests her). </p>
<p>She may also want to look at Christopher Newport in Newport News, VA. They have a non-auditioned BA with a track in Musical Theatre. Temple in Philly – auditioned BA for Musical Theatre, non-auditioned BA for Theatre. </p>
<p>I am not sure about how it plays out in actuality (your school probably has Naviance data specific to your school?), but College of Charleston and JMU actually have relatively close common data set info for 2010/2011 in terms of admissions. </p>
<p><a href=“Institutional Research - JMU”>Institutional Research - JMU; </p>
<p><a href=“Page not found - College of Charleston”>Page not found - College of Charleston;
<p>Many schools will post the common data set information on the website. This might help (when combined with Naviance info and college guidance counselor information) put the academic piece into balance with the audition piece. Some schools will require a student to meet both academic and artistic standards for admissions. At other schools the audition can “trump” the academic piece. It varies from school to school. </p>
<p>At JMU, for example, when admissions looks at the transcript they take into account the rigor of course load in relationship to what is offered at the HS. They also look mainly at the GPA in terms of core courses (english, history, math, etc…) not so much at grades in arts courses. At JMU we can recommend RD admissions students that we would like in the majors to academic admissions. Sometimes this can help boost a students academic admissions. </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Soozie - Thanks, I forgot to add Hofstra to my list for further consideration.
Kat - I will add Christopher Newport and Plymouth State.</p>
<p>I have gone thru the regular admissions process with my older D, so I have an idea of what regular admissions are looking for. She will show a marked improvement from Fresh/Soph to Junior/Senior. Our school does not release rank or percentile information. Based on Naviance and other research, I feel like D could reasonably apply to all these schools, and could do well there academically, but do not necessarily expect her get in. As long as we have a couple of safety schools on the list where she could be happy and the others she applies to aren’t all completely unreasonable academic reaches, I think she’ll be OK. I wil refer to common data sets when we narrow our lists in the end, but for now I don’t want to rule out schools unless they are impossible matches for her. </p>
<p>Again, thanks so much!!!</p>
<p>Hi, Shaun - Welcome! You will absolutely be able to “pay it forward” at a later date. Indeed, in addition to the wonderful professionals who post here, such as Kat, Suzie, and Emmybet, some of us whose kids have completed the process also hang around! </p>
<p>I was reviewing this thread prior to commenting on some of the most recent posts, and I saw this statement in your original post: “I would prefer to find a program, whether BA or BFA, with a high number of Gen Ed requirements so if she has a change of heart she would have credits to transfer to another Major or school . . . Dream school would have . . . a great Arts Admin or Entertainment/Music Industry double-major or Minor option.”</p>
<p>I agree that one of the problems you are having making up a list is that you are conflicted. As a parent, I completely appreciate your hope that your daughter will have other training/skills to fall back on in case her performing career doesn’t work out. And I certainly not in a position to second-guess your knowledge of what your family can provide financially for her post-secondary education. But it may be that there are inherent contradictions in the list you are trying to construct.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds very talented, and you sound very proud of her accomplishments in her chosen field. As several posters have pointed out, many of the top acting programs, be they be BFA or BA, are extremely demanding, and while it’s possible to double major or minor in a second field, the student has to be very committed to doing so in order to make it work, particularly while doing their best work in their primary program. And, I believe that in most cases the second majors/minors taken by acting students are in a liberal arts field, not a second professional discipline. I think that do otherwise would be very challenging.</p>
<p>I know you are concerned about several different contingencies (what if she doesn’t like the program? what if she can’t find work as an actor?), and I can definitely relate to trying to cover all of ones bases. But at the end of the day, I think what you’re discovering is that it’s not a workable way to choose a college. </p>
<p>Please keep in mind that many Acting BFA’s ultimately become successful in other fields without taking other undergraduate professional training. Some go into other forms of communication, some go on to law school or business school, and others teach. Of course, in order to do any of those things it’s pretty important (essential?) to have a liberal arts education. But just about any school that grants the BFA is going to require a reasonable amount of such education. Schools that don’t require such courses are generally conservatories, not colleges! In addition, many (but by no means all) acting major programs give the opportunity/require the student to get experience in other theater skills, such as lighting, sound, and directing. These can all be marketable skills. </p>
<p>Please also keep in mind that many students see their initial intended major (or school) fail to work out for them. Often they are able to switch gears at the same educational institution (sometimes in an entirely different field - I know of a former music major at Harvard who decided to go to medical school). If not, many students transfer to another school with excellent results. (I speak from parental experience here.) </p>
<p>I wish you and your daughter the best.</p>