<p>I love the Caltech campus and think it’s one of the most beautiful in the country, but it definitely has a nerdy culture. A visit is in order, both my kids (even the non science guy) loved it, but it’s not for everyone. Definitely look into internships and job placement - my son’s original 2008 internship went bellyup due to the financial crisis and his friends at CMU found him one at NVIDIA within a few weeks. His internship that led to his current job was also initiated from CMU connections. All his internships were in California.</p>
<p>“definitely look at schools’ grad departments in interested fields.” - That’s good advise for the colleges that have grad schools. But some students (including DS) preferred intense undergrad-only engineering colleges like Mudd and Olin. There’s no right answer for everybody. Just mentioning it since Mudd and Rose Hulman have been discussed.</p>
<p>Hi Musubi,</p>
<p>Just returning to this thread and after reading your post #27, I would take Lehigh and Bucknell off of your list. They both have a very big Greek component and plenty of partying. They don’t sound like the perfect fit for your son as you describe him. I’m not sure Lafayette will work either. </p>
<p>However, I definitely think that Rice, RIT, and Rose-Hulman are worthy of investigation! All of those fit him in at least some, if not all, of the ways you describe. Just trying to narrow your list a bit here!</p>
<p>“I’ve seen multiple higher capable kids head off to much lower level colleges and come home underwhelmed wishing they had chosen elsewhere”
-I have seen many many (actually all) top caliber kids (ranked #1 in the most rigorous private HSs) who went to state publics and were shocked by the level of classes (after having As and 5s in corresponding APs that they had to re-take becuase of recomendations from advisors, specifically, most pre-med advisors would recommend re-taking the first Bio and Chem. classes despite of As and 5s in respective APs). I am not taking strictly pre-med. It is mostly true for engineering. I know some top kids from private HSs who were determined to stay in engineering. Because of their determineation, they actually were seeking private tutors to bring them up to college level (at low ranked state publics).</p>
<p>Engineering is fairly rigorous everywhere it is offered, due to needing to meet ABET accreditation requirements.</p>
<p>However, it is not the case that an engineering major can go to “any” college, because many colleges do not have ABET accredited engineering majors.</p>
<p>State colleges are often the best for engineering… and they aren’t (usually) terribly shabby for other majors either. It all depends upon the school/major more than the category.</p>
<p>^Correct. But some non-accredited programs are actually stronger than accredited ones. I am aware of these examples also. In this cases, while kids go strictly for accreditation, I believe, they are missing out, they have the wrong reason for choosing.
In addition, consider that most engineering firms hire LOCALLY.<br>
There are exceptions to any statistics. But if you want to live somewhere, it is a good idea to go to college there.
Again, if you are top gun anywhere, I guess, the sky is a limit. It applies to all majors, not just engineering. It is a worthwhile to consider where you see yourself to achieve this top position and wher you see that you do not fit at all. Misery will not produce any positive results. Personal fit is the most important, no matter how you look at college. The one that works for your friend, might not work for you at all.</p>
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<p>Agreed. It’s that way where we live too, so 'tis best to check with the local employers to see where they hire from. There are also local schools they don’t particularly care for…</p>
<p>I’d never recommend a non-accredited school to anyone, but if you know you can get hired from one (employer is gung ho about it and/or several students - without hooks - have done it recently), then to each their own.</p>
<p>Fit is important. Being top gun is not necessarily so if the school doesn’t provide the challenge one wants. For many, having a pool of top guns is preferable to being a loner.</p>
<p>Another thought. Are you/son primarily looking for job skills or an education? Some professions typically have a bachelor’s degree while others often have at least a masters eventually for top level work. Consider how many students at a college consider a bachelors degree to be it. You can’t just look at percentages as large schools may have more students in a major going on to an advanced degree than total students in a major at a small school. Your son needs to be in an environment with goals similar to his. btw- he may opt out after just the BS, but will he be surrounded by students with that expectation? Also- does he want to be surrounded by those with similar interests or also include those he otherwise would never encounter? Being part of an engineering school with a lot of arts and humanities around offers a chance to indulge in courses to widen his horizons.</p>
<p>So many things to consider. There is a reason colleges vary so much- people do.</p>
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<p>This may be true for CS (and possibly some newer areas of engineering like biomedical), but not generally the case for the more established types of engineering. However, non-ABET-accredited CS programs could be very poor as well as very good, so careful evaluation needs to be done.</p>
<p>CS does not need any accreditation. Accreditation is for engineering
In regard to " For many, having a pool of top guns is preferable to being a loner. "
- it is never ever the case, no chance. D’s Honors accepted only top 200 from the pool of applicants (state public). The requirements were top 2% and ACT=32+. I am sure that most of the Honors students (across all majors) in these 200 were valedictorians. My D’s roomnate was valedictorian (D. graduared #1) as well as many (most?) in the Honors dorm.<br>
This is just a myth that the top kid will be loner somehwhere. Not a chance. Top kids go to local colleges in big numbers for various reasons. For some the name of UG or ranking completely does not matter (for future Medical School applicants, engineering, CS), for others finanacial offerrings are just not something to neglect. Good numbers are very successful later particularly with Med. School applications, engineering and CS jobs. I do not know much about other fields, I am talking about the ones that I am very very familiar based on personal experience and many experiences of my and my D’s friends.</p>
<p>Miami, you talk as though the only alternative to selective private school is big universities. Sure, most state flagships will have a big contingent of smart kids, especially if they have an honors programs, but there are lots of schools - especially small non-selective private schools where a top computer student will have no peers. Not every school offers engineering, not every school has a CS program that even offers the courses that will lead to job offers at top companies.</p>
<p>Do not look at the prestige of the schools as the best mark of their appropriateness. Look at the course offerings in the fields and the depth of them. There will be many schools you can get the basic courses but that’s it. You want a school with more courses of interest than he can possibly take. You want more than the core available to him. You do not want a major in this plus two minors/extra majors because there aren’t enough courses in your field to satisfy him. Also consider the breadth of courses outside his chosen areas of interest.</p>
<p>Regarding premed- choosing a school because a high percentage gets into medical school can backfire. Know a good student who did that- he spent too much time enjoying college instead of getting the A’s and did not get into medical school of any kind right away. Needing to study harder likely would have served him better.</p>
<p>No one school will have it all. Harvard is NOT the place to go for comp sci or engineering regardless of its other excellent programs. At this stage you want to explore many facets of college life. Consider sizes, locations and the other nonacademic factors to help you narrow the field. Figure out which matter most. You may decide the California schools are just as good and meet your son’s (not yours) criteria best. Kudos on taking time to consider all of the possibilities- let us know where he chooses/ends up.</p>
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<p>The quality of CS departments varies greatly (and is not necessarily aligned with typical notions of school prestige); it is not the case that “any” CS department is as good as any other.</p>
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<p>Uh, yes, it IS the case. Your experience is very limited. There are schools out there that get < 1% of students with > 30 ACT. If you’re that one, there are few (if any) peers and the coursework is not at your level unless it’s a very special program.</p>
<p>Honors colleges in state schools are a totally different deal. State colleges in general attract a wider variety due to their lower cost for many. That’s not true at ALL schools.</p>
<p>"Miami, you talk as though the only alternative to selective private school is big universities. "
-I am sorry for incorrectly stating my opinion.
I am saying over and over that the most important is to go to the place that fits the student well. If finances are concern, that has to be addressed also. Big, small, private, public, ranked high, off the charts, unknown place are not important factors specifically for the fields that I have a very good knowledge based on my family and close friends (very many) experiences. I am talking about pre-med, CS and engineering. The name of your UG might play a bigger role in other fields of study (like Business,…etc.)</p>
<p>Consider the University of Alabama. they have a great merit aid program. With high enough grades/test scores, he can get free tuition, plus another $2,000 towards room/board.</p>
<p>Have him add Olin (Frank Olin College) to the list of reach schools. Very small engineering school, but doing great stuff.</p>
<p>If you are after Merit awards, Case iWestern is definitely the one to look at. If my D. went there, we would end up paying only $5k/year for the very expansive private school. Her friend actually graduated from Case and was paying very low tuition because of Merit award. It is private (and small), so State of residency does not matter.</p>
<p>As it’s already been mentioned, Cal CS students have an easy time graduating in 4 yrs or less; the program is structured to move the students through quickly. My son had great internships because many of the alums have done quite well, and they heavily recruit Cal students. It’s one of the best CS schools on the west coast and definitely a bargain. The only downside is that there is no hand-holding whatsoever. But I doubt your son will need hand-holding by the time he’s off to college. Be sure he’s challenged; my son sat in CS classes at a few schools and quickly realized that some CS departments were just too lightweight.</p>
<p>If its not to late to throw out a couple other Midwest options, I recommend investigating St. Olaf College and Hope College. St. Olaf is very well-known for math and physics. Check out their very active robotics program and their huge success in Rube Goldberg competitions! Hope has ABET accredited engineering in a bunch of fields. Both schools are well-sized (3200 or so), offer aid, have lots of opportunities for undergrad research, are intellectual, cooperative not cut-throat, with gorgeous campuses and facilities. Very happy places! Good luck to you and your son.</p>