Please help with list for biology minded D

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Some of you need based folks are just a little too preachy and holier than thou.

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<p>There you go again. </p>

<p>Who are these "need based folks" you are hurling comments at?</p>

<p>FWIW, it's apparent to me, based on the material the OP presented, that the OP may not have a totally realistic understanding about merit aid. As cello said, much of what is called "merit aid" is about enrollment management. The OP needs to understand this. At the same time, some schools actually do use a merit component to merit aid, as your kid's experience shows.</p>

<p>I've seen too many sad stories right here on these boards the past 5 years (yes, some of us go back to the "old" CC board days, under old names) regarding merit aid quests, affordability and ultimate dissapointment when the acceptance letters come in, and the merit aid awards don't, to let a newcomer be deluded.</p>

<p>The higher ed marketing machine is vey effective. It is particularly effective at bringing in applicants (with dangles of merit aid, in some cases) who will find the "prize" very hard to afford. Posters need to be aware, especially newcomers.</p>

<p>New posters also need to be aware that the need based aid system is a busted machine that grinds dreams into dust for some/most middle class families. Since my kid never dreamed of a need only school, it didn't bother us as much. I didn't and don't take it personally like others appear to. </p>

<p>nmd, you don't like merit aid. Do you? Yes or no? Just be honest. </p>

<p>I do. It's the only chance folks in my income/asset situation have for their kids other than their own state schools. That's my bias. I hope you'll be as open about your own.</p>

<p>I apologize to the OP. I'll continue our conversation by p.m.. The Need-Only" police have arrived to try to make you feel bad about seeking merit aid. They never got to me and I hope you won't let them get to you. They have an agenda.</p>

<p>You ask for a red pump for your family, they show you a white sneaker because your judgment MUST be faulty. LOL.</p>

<p>I don't know what the circumstances are either
the womens colleges as I posted on the other thread with the same header- do have merit and whats more they seem to tweak "need" so that those that did not think they would qualify for so much aid- are breathing easier
I know two earner families- at * Microsoft* who have kids at both Smith and Holyoke with "merit + need" packages.</p>

<p>I think it does help to lay the schools out there-
because circumstances change
they may decide that for a really great fit they will make the committment even with little aid
or they may love a school that has their own definition of need</p>

<p>I agree with MHC and Smith , but as you know better than I ek4 - that merit+need thing ain't happening at Reed.</p>

<p>"that grinds dreams into dust for some/most middle class families"</p>

<p>Except, of course, for those who receive the need-based aid. The merit aid going to families who don't need it hurts the kids who do.</p>

<p>Your best bets would be to check out 1) OOS-friendly public universities offering merit $ or 2) private colleges, going down a notch or two in selectivity. Emory should definitely stay on your D's list, however. </p>

<p>You have many, many options. Here's a just a few. </p>

<p>Allegheny College
Antioch College
Beloit College
Boston University
Case Western Reserve University
Clemson University
College of Charleston
College of Wooster
Furman University
Hope College
Juniata College
Kalamazoo College
Knox College
Lawrence University (more of a LAC)
Lewis & Clark College
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Puget Sound (more of a LAC)
University of Redlands (more of a LAC)
University of the South</p>

<p>Randolph-Macon is going co-ed, so I'm not sure how that will affect merit aid...they're usually pretty generous. </p>

<p>I encourage your D to consider Canadian colleges as well. Even for international students, they're often cheaper than US private colleges.</p>

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ta-dah. That wasn't so hard vossron-now was it? You dislike merit aid because it hurts people. See? I bet you feel better now that you fessed up.</p>

<p>OP. Some people don't like merit aid and will try to sabotage your thread. Sorry about that. You'll get used to it. ;)</p>

<p>I wasn't talking about * Reed* it is hardly the only school that has a biology program
However I know several young women who are at the womens colleges with good merit as well as some of the more tech colleges that tend to attract more young men? RPI for instance is worth looking at</p>

<p>the link I posted earlier discusses bio undergrad in a lot of different schools</p>

<p>RPI is another good suggestion ek4. Keep them coming. From my P.M. I think the OP may like all of your selections so far.</p>

<p>scifimom:</p>

<p>If UCs are within consideration for you, several of them have very strong bio programs and have a lot of research going on. UCSD is particularly strong in bio. Your D might want to apply to some of them and shoot for a Regents Scholarship. This is merit-only based and is significant in that it covers all tuition plus some extra but not housing (at the UCs my D was offered the Regents at).</p>

<p>A couple of schools you might want to consider - University of Rochester offers merit aid as does Lewis and Clark. Both have excellent biology programs.</p>

<p>cur,</p>

<p>Good screen name. Goes with the growls and all.</p>

<p>I have no particular opinion on merit aid, good or bad. For some schools, it is an effective tool for keeping the doors open. For others, it helps upgrade the stats of the student body. </p>

<p>Does it crowd out aid for poorer students? From what I've seen about merit $ and the economics, not by much, as the schools that use it for enrollment management are maximizing tuition income in order to keep the doors open, so to speak, and the schools that use it for "student quality" purposes just don't spend that much on it. For many of the latter, the "bait" of merit aid is no doubt its biggest value - some quality students will decide to enroll even without a merit award. After all, the bait drew the app in, allowed the college to see the "whole package" and market accordingly.</p>

<p>FWIW, my own D was offered a valuable full ride merit scholarship 3 years ago that she declined, and enrolled elsewhere. </p>

<p>So stop jumping to conclusions, less others decide the screen name is indeed fitting!</p>

<p>nmd, my tails been hanging over that fence for a long time. There's never any doubt where I stand. I wasn't put here on this earth to be liked. Like I tell my D, if everybody likes you - you ain't doing enough meaningful work. I consider the fact that the "Need-Only" folks are after me a good thing. I'm doing my job on the board. </p>

<p>Families in the middle class often need merit aid to attend anything but their own state schools. It's a simple fact. There are hundreds on this board, most of whom only lurk because of threads like this.</p>

<p>And I didn't jump to any conclusions , nmd. Even in that post your bias against merit aid schools is glaring.</p>

<p>OP:</p>

<p>It would help to know if your daughter has any no-go parameters regarding college selection. Areas of the country? Climate considerations? Size? (for example, S wouldn't consider any college smaller than his HS at 3,000) Near cities for entertainment and hospitals for research....that kind of thing. I have no crystal ball, but your daughter's stats and GPA put her in UC for sure and she'd find terrific biology programs at SD or Davis and UCI as well as the top two, UCLA and UCB. So it becomes about fit. Are the UCs too big, too close to home?</p>

<p>Would she be happy far from home in the south or in the NE or in a smallish women's college? Does she need a music program at all or is that not a consideration?</p>

<p>Threads like these are why I stay on CC. (I'm squirrelling away info on schools like Miami and Lawrence for S2, for whom we will probably have less money available for college). It's helpful to have options to state universities, even good ones. And it's understood that there's no guarantee that a college one hears about on CC will come through with large awards much less an all-expenses-paid trip to college. It's just info to make a start in one's own investigations.</p>

<p>Vanderbilt and Tulane are possibles (I suggest the latter because it is the #4 ranked biomed engineering in the country, so I am just assuming bio would be strong; but I don't know that specifically).</p>

<p>I'm waiting on some requested info by P.M. from the OP but it may be that the schools at the Vanderbilt, Emory, WashU level are a bit too much of a merit stretch. Tulane, Rochester, RPI, Smith, MHC, Case, and UMiami seem to be more realistic in terms of merit possibilities. I want to see if the OP's D has any interest in those schools or any other merit aid schools that have been mentioned. With the excellent science at UCSD and some of the other UC's, well- this may be a tough task.</p>

<p>cur,</p>

<p>Well I'll be darned. I guess I have biases I'm not even aware of. If knowing merit aid for what it is leads some people to accuse one of biases, then I'll wear the label proudly. It's a lot better to be biased, by these criteria, than ignorant, or bigoted. Behaviour speaks for itself.</p>

<p>Cur, do you do much other long distance psychology? Telepathy perhaps? Just curious regarding these clairvoyant powers you seem to have.</p>

<p>PS. There's a whole sticky thread on this board about merit aid schools. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Maybe some just want to claim unusual insight by restating the work of others?</p>

<p>nmd, this gets the OP no closer to home. Rather than continue this I'll let my record and old posts speak for themselves and my knowledge of the merit aid process.</p>

<p>Cur,</p>

<p>You know my views on merit aid - so I will not even go there - all I will say it certainly feels good not to have to pay the big bills. In regard to OP question - her D stats may be a little low for WashU & Emory ( will only mention those because of personal experience) - but on the other hand if the rest of her resume (ECs) and recomendations are top notch - you never know. Even though the first cut is made on GPA and test scores, after that both schools consider the entire application before deciding on who gets the awards. Based strictly on SATs we should not have ended up with what we did. So I would consider giving it a shot at Emory and WashU. U Miami is a great suggestion and they are quite liberal with merit money. Also PMd OP if there are more specific questions.</p>

<p>The OP would be wise to listen to you ST2. I would just not like to see a list of merit schools where the OP's kid is not representative statistically of the kids receiving scholarships or invited to compete for scholarships last year. A couple of merit reaches, maybe more? Sure, but not all. </p>

<p>I put Case and UMiami on the possible list even though their top awards are not that likely (but possible) as they appeared last year to be more stat oriented then some in our experience and the experiences of others shared on the board.</p>

<p>Let's assume that they need significant merit of at least 1/2 the total COA. That limits things.</p>

<p>It's also possible from some hints I have received that the OP's kid may not be as interested in schools without a national name, when the UC publics are available. That may limit things further.</p>