Please let me decide this matter, Columbia vs Williams(Amherst)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>for ED of course</p>

<p>2220(740/800/680)
got 12 on essay---quite low SAT </p>

<p>got exceptionally good extra curriculums.---better than other applicants</p>

<p>3.9(4%) GPA--well, my school is somewhat competitive in my country</p>

<p>Totally moving essays.---definitely sure</p>

<p>and I really like to study both environmental science and economics.</p>

<p>I want to choose Williams because it can provide me with certain camaraderie with professors. I really like that kind of stuff because there isn't such thing in school I attend. But, my parents insist I go to Columbia for ED because Columbia has better name value than Williams has.</p>

<p>Well, come to think of it. Columbia is very competitive school in Ivy league. And, many people did not know what Willaims is.</p>

<p>As a matter of fact, I did not know what to choose between Williams and Amherst. come to think of it.</p>

2

<p>I go to Columbia...</p>

<p>but with that said don't ED Columbia if YOU don't want to go there. Is Columbia more prestigious than Williams/Amherst. Yup. But must of its prestige is derived from its graduate programs and tons of Nobel Prize winners and such. </p>

<p>Don't get me wrong--- it's undergradate level had the lowest admit rate in the ivy League this year, but Williams certainly has an amazing undergraduate program since it's a LAC that's equal to almost every single Ivy with the exception of Princeton (which for all intensive purposes is a LAC). </p>

<p>Consider things like.... location, majors, atmosphere. For most grad programs, Williams place as well as Columbia proportionally. But Columbia is in NYC, and Columbia 100% beats Williams if you want to do something in Finance (investment banking, PE, HF, etc).</p>

3

<p>The differences between academic quality for the three are inconsequential - the differences between atmosphere are so intense that it's a wonder to me that someone could even be having this dilemma. </p>

<p>Columbia has an intense core. Amherst has an open curriculum. Williams has distribution requirements. </p>

<p>Columbia is in an enormous city. Williams is in a rural village. Amherst is in a college town. </p>

<p>What do you want from a college experience?</p>

4

<p>The curriculum and atmosphere of Williams and Columbia are different. Williams has a more open curriculum than Columbia. It also has a more party-oriented social scene that stays on campus, whereas students at Columbia go out into the city a bit more.</p>

<p>The strength of the student body at Williams is identical to that of Columbia, but the type of students they respectively attract are different. Williams is more jocky, whereas Columbia seems more intellectual.</p>

<p>If you are going into finance (I see that your an Econ major), recruitment at Williams is very strong, as is Columbia's. However, neither school will give you a significant advantage over the other, other than Columbia having closer access to internships (its NYC location). </p>

<p>What are you hoping to pursue after college?</p>

<p>Also, I think its surprising that you are looking at Columbia versus Williams. If you want an Ivy that is just as strong as Columbia but more similar to Williams in every other way, look at Dartmouth.</p>

5

<p>He seemed to like Williams, though, but felt that Columbia would be better for name recognition (and perhaps recruitment purposes, from its location in NYC). Dartmouth would provide neither of these advantages that Columbia would, its name recognition being only marginally better than Williams and its location just as isolated.</p>

6

<p>Yeah but Dartmouth is an Ivy, so selling it to his parents might be easier. I'm trying to stop the kid from making a mistake by applying to Columbia, which is totally different than Williams, and trying to find an in-between. </p>

<p>Dartmouth's recruitment (and professional school placement) is just as good as Columbia's too (even though so is Williams', but his parents might not see that).</p>

<p>Show your parents this list:
<a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and this list (if your worrying about finance):
<a href="http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/5768%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/5768&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Note that on both, Dartmouth Williams and Columbia are in the same range (Williams is actually better than both schools on both lists, proportionally).</p>

7

<p>Yea the reason why Dartmouth and Williams do better is because in that list they include the 1000 or so Barnard students who aren't the types that usually end up in BIGLAW/BIGBANKING.</p>

<p>If Columbia College were ranked seperately, it'd be much higher.</p>

8

<p>Well, I don't think the OP should discount Amherst. ;)</p>

9

<p>truazn, I don't know if thats true - the survey says 1600 undergrads - 1350 from Columbia College and Fu engineering put together. So maybe 250 from Barnard are used? Either way, you can't ignore them. If you discounted certain majors from Dartmouth and Williams I'm sure that would increase numbers as well.</p>

<p>Its not surprising that Williams and Dartmouth have better (or at least similar) placement than Columbia, either way. The schools attract students of similar caliber.</p>

10

<p>Dartmouth excels at recruiting, only after HYPSM. As for placement, even if you lower the number of undergrads at Columbia to only include SEAS and CC, Dartmouth still does slightly better.</p>

<p>Anyway what do you want in a college experience. Columbia, Williams, Dartmouth, and Amherst will serve you equally well and in the US are equally prestigious.</p>

11

<p>so people in your country don;t know about Amherst-how ignorant is that? Amherst is super competitive. and seriously dude, if you want to focus on your study go to Amherst,</p>

12

<p>Not surprising - Amherst isn't that well-known outside of the above-average student community.</p>

13

<p>Unregistered is right. They all rock. Pick the one that suits your profile and your needs. Visit them all. And by the way, do not forget to apply to all of them, and then some, for they may all reject you.</p>

14

<p>Columbia does not have better name value among 98 percent of the people you will probably be trying to impress. Among law, medical, gradudate, business schools, investment banks, consulting firms, scientific research outfits, fellowships etc., Williams is as respected (or more so in certain cases) than Columbia. If you are concerned with impressing the average man on the street when you mention which school you went to, don't go to Williams, because most have never heard of it. If you are concerned with impressing the people who will likely be deciding your future, you can't go wrong with Williams.</p>

<p>As just one example, check out the Yale law number (top law school in the country). Williams typically outperforms Columbia, Dartmouth, etc. by a significant margin in terms of admissions, on a percentage basis. This is not unusual:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/bulletin/html/law/students.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/bulletin/html/law/students.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

15

<p>If you want to impress the average person I don't think Columbia is really that well-known for its strength among lay people either (though it was in Spiderman).</p>

<p>Admissions to Yale Law school is too specific to even matter. It could swing completely next year. I stick with WSJ, which is the same thing except with 15 schools instead of 1. On that, Williams does better than Columbia too.</p>

16

<p>All 3 schools are good choices, but if you want to major in both environmental science and economics, Columbia is probably the best place to do that. You would be able to register for any environmental science courses at the engineering school; perhaps be able to take environmental policy courses at the School of International/Public Affairs.</p>

17

<p>Is Columbia "well-known" to "laymen"? Not as much as HYPS that's for sure. But then again outside HYPS no school comes close to achieving laymen prestige. Columbia is as close as it gets to HYPS.</p>

<ol>
<li>Columbia College had the lowest admit rate in the country (8.9%)</li>
<li>Columbia has the most Nobel Prizes in the world (83)</li>
<li>Columbia has tremendous international prestige (refer to international rankings)</li>
</ol>

<p><a href="http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm&lt;/a>
Columbia #7, ranked higher than Princeton, Yale, Cornell, Penn, Brown, Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Also refer to the Times Higher Educational Supplement Ranking, where Columbia is #12 in the world. (Princeton is #11)</p>

<p>Columbia was Ranked #1 research institution in the world this year. (there's a link somewhere on CC)</p>

<p>By these metrics, Williams can not compare on a name-brand prestige basis. (Note: this is not to say its academics is not up to par- in fact, Williams will offer you the same if not better education than any Ivy except Princeton)</p>

<p>To the OP. Columbia's name-brand is better than that of either Williams' or Amhersts' when it comes to the people for matter. Granted Williams is a top-tiered institution, but Columbia is Columbia. For the record, Columbia has twice the amount of people as Williams at Yale Law, Harvard law, Stanford Law, etc.</p>

<p>Can anyone genuinely argue that someone in say, Europe, CHina- heck California is more likely to know what Williams is vs Columbia University? I can tell you from personal experience that Columbia is very well respected in Beijing, Shanghai, and London (three cities where I've visited/worked/lived) and put on par with MIT, Stanford, and Yale. </p>

<p>Also, Columbia's name value is further increased due to its extremely prestigious Law School, Business School, Journalism School, and Medical School. If it's name-brand you are looking for, Columbia is the best.</p>

<p>However, with that said, Law School/Medical School admissions is vastly predicated upon your GPA/LSAT. It does not matter much where you went to school. And to the extent that Williams is Williams, the inherent advantage Columbia's name brand has over Williams will do absolutely nothing. Of course, business, and BANKING specifically is another story. Columbia has AMAZING placement on wall-street, only surpassed by Harvard, Princeton, and Wharton. Then again, there's also more competition at HPWharton for those spots. </p>

<p>If you are competitive for Williams, you will be competitive for Columbia. Do not let "name"/prestige influence your decision between these two schools. Choose which one you'd like better. That said, if you want Columbia, applying Early Decision is 100% the best way to go.</p>

18

<p>For what it's worth, Columbia is an excellent place for your dual interests. Environmental science is a real strength there, and there will be research opportunities available to you as an undergrad. Though econ is probably comparable for undergrads at all three schools, Columbia has some major economists whose focus is the combination of econ and environmental science.</p>

<p>So, there are reasons to choose Columbia aside from some perceived difference in prestige. (And I think the people who count -- employers or the academics who sit on grad school admissions committees -- know how excellent Williams and Amherst are.) I agree completely with the advice that you need to make your choice based on what kind of college experience you want to have. Columbia, Amherst, and Williams are very different. Perhaps you should apply early to a place that is non-binding, rather than to an ED school?</p>

19

<p>One of my children chose Barnard/Columbia, the other Williams. Thet were looking for different environments. I don't think one out performs the other in academics or contacts. It's true. Columbia has much more name recognition. That wasn't important to my son. I don't think Columbia is more intellectual; it's just that the core focusses intellectual discussion. (BTW: S turned down UChicago and Brown for Williams.)</p>

20

<p>Prestige wise, heres how it goes:</p>

<p>in 10 years, some person asks you what college you went to; 2 scenerios;</p>

<p>a. "I went to Columbia"
"OMFG!!!!!!! J00 R SMRT!!"</p>

<p>b. "I went to Williams"
"huh?"</p>