<p>well Goldman Sachs stated that its 1-10 for summer analyst programs are:</p>
<p>Penn
Harvard
NYU
Cornell
Princeton
Columbia
Stanford
Georgetown
MIT
Michigan</p>
<p>Got this information from a Princeton Review Book on careers.</p>
<p>clubbiscuit,
Back in April, I created a thread called "NYC & Wall Street Recruiting: CC gives too narrow a picture." </p>
<p>I was commenting on the Street's view of the intellectual strength of various colleges, but much of the discussion referenced schools that had the strongest records for placing students. Unfortunately, the thread gets a little contentious at times. Here is the thread from April:</p>
<p>Also, here is one quote from one of my posts in the thread:</p>
<p>"...help students understand that they have a chance from all of the schools on this list (or argue not if you believe so). For example, must a student who got into both Cornell and Hamilton go to Cornell in order to get a job on Wall Street? Must a student who got into both Penn State and U Michigan go to U Michigan in order to get a job on Wall Street? How about W&L vs Duke? Or Emory vs Dartmouth? My point is that the students have more leeway in their choices than they often recognize and is consistently presented on CC and other college forums. I say choose the school you want to go to and don't go to the school that you feel you have to or for prestige purposes. </p>
<p>Choosing a college should be most about fit (academic and otherwise). That fit might be an Ivy or a highly prestigious college. My suggestion is that it need not automatically be, including if the student wants to get a job on the Street. There are quality students all over the country and in some of the most unlikely places. I think Wall Street understands this and is a lot more open to them (if they are good and prepare properly) than people realize."</p>
<p>That is completely off hawkette. Having a degree from Duke or Dartmouth will trump chances from Emory or W&L. 5-10times better I would guess. Michigan vs Penn State? Michigan hands down. There is a substantial difference. Recruiters only like to visit a handful of schools, you want to go to one of those. Look at any recruiting list. The same always names pop up over and over again. </p>
<p>My experience (also from Va*ult.com listing of where banks recruit)
1. Dartmouth Econ, Duke Econ, Stern
2. Northwestern Econ, UMich Ross
3. UC-Berkeley Haas
4. Cornell AEM</p>
<p>Drop
5. UCLA Econ/ CMU Tepper
6. WashU Olin/ Emory Goizueta</p>
<p>Agreed with Slipper.</p>
<p>Hawkette, it's commendable that you are singlehandedly trying to inspire high school students to broaden their scope on colleges. But if a student already knows that he or she wants to go into the financial sector vis a vis Wall Street, it's important that they receive the correct information. </p>
<p>Note: I am mainly referring to the bulge bracket firms and strong boutiques.</p>
<p>FACT - BB firms only recruit at a handful of elite schools. It is much, MUCH more difficult to get an offer if you attend a non-target. Even top schools like Emory, Vanderbilt, Rice, Hopkins, and WashU are considered to be non-targets by banks like JPM, UBS, CS, ML, MS, and BS.</p>
<p>So, the general advice is this: if you know for sure that you want to go into investment banking, go to a target school.</p>
<p>Totally. Telling a banker that prestige isn't important is doing them a disservice of sorts. You need to be in the elite group of schools.</p>
<p>I agree with Slipper and his list, although I would put Ross in his first group. I would also put Cornell in group 2 or 3, not group 4.</p>
<p>Here's a lovely email from a wharton professor who mocked i-bankers</p>
<p>*I do respect those who pursue an i-banking career IF they really like it. In fact, I develop high-end computational models that are useful for i-banking, hedge funds, and even private placements, and so I actually find the stuff fairly interesting. For those who are just chasing the money, however, they should have very realistic expectations of what they are getting into: repetitive work that is often unchallenging and belittling, cocktailed with long hours. Wall Street firms simply don't have much incentive to mentor new hires. I respect those firms that do (GS and Lehman, for example, have decent reputations here), but they are more the exception rather than the rule. If you don't believe me: ask da' man, Warren Buffet, who referred to his departure from Wall Street during his youth as being raised from the dead. </p>
<p>There is a 93.34% probability that you'll agree with me two years post graduation. But please ping at that time to let me know that I am full of bull … or, to confess.
*</p>
<p>I'm getting different ideas on NYU Stern.. Because it is my first choice school I want to know more about it.. I know that NYU as a school itself does not have a prestige that Ivies + other top schools have, but the school has been gaining reputation + prestige very quickly, and isn't it one of the fastest growing universities in U.S? I mean, 20 years ago, I think NYU, whether Stern or not, couldn't even be compared to Ivies or other top schools. So.. in terms of job replacement and maybe even admission for MBA later, would Stern be at least on par with schools like Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern?..</p>
<p>I don't think you shouldn't go to college if you wanna be an IBer, just have a way with numbers and people and you can do what will smith did.</p>
<p>BERKELEY (NO. 3)
Don't be fooled by students lounging outdoors in the Haas Courtyard at University of California at Berkeley's gloriously sunny campus. At the Haas School of Business, the two-year undergraduate experience is packaged much like an MBA program, complete with advanced courses and a summer cohort system that allows students to progress as a group. But recruiter satisfaction, not the program's MBA-like structure, explains why Haas rocketed up nine spots to No. 3. In 2006 recruiters ranked Berkeley 41st. This year: No. 1.</p>
<p>What changed their minds? Haas cranked up its recruiting efforts, staffing Berkeley's undergraduate career center with an accounts manager who reaches out to potential employers and helps place students. This fall alone, 584 companies attended career fairs at Berkeley, up from 501 last fall, including a new early-bird event in November that helped employers get a head start on intern recruiting. The fair was one of a dozen held on campus throughout the year, where the likes of Intuit (INTU ), Cisco Systems (CSCO ), and Google (GOOG ) sought out students more vigorously alongside such newcomers as Bloomberg.</p>
<p>Berkeley also lavishes white-glove treatment on recruiters, who get fresh fruit and other perks, including student guides. "When our employers step out of their cars, they are taken by the hand by students," says Tom Devlin, director of the center. To confer VIP status on such leading recruiters as McKinsey, Microsoft (MSFT ), and Goldman Sachs (GS ), the school put them in a group of their own called the Berkeley Circle. Members get prominent placement on the career center Web site and are encouraged to provide advice on what their companies are looking for in undergrad business majors.</p>
<p>Of course, companies wouldn't be descending on Berkeley if they weren't happy with the product. JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM ). recruiter Sasha Price says Berkeley students have a rare combination of business knowhow and communication skills that belies their youth. "We have had some interviewers say to us: My God, these Haas students know more than some of the MBAs we've just hired,'" Price says.</p>
<p>Although students at times feel shortchanged when MBAs get preferential treatment in everything from faculty to facilities, as they do at many other schools, there are no complaints from undergrads when it comes to the job search. Stephen Wan, a senior who will be working in Apple Inc.'s (AAPL ) finance department this fall, says he has yet to see an unhappy employer on the Berkeley campus. It's not just the weather.</p>
<hr>
<p>Now, I guess, Berkeley-Haas is up there in the list. The only schools I can think of that's at par with Berkeley-Haas are Harvard, Stanford and Yale.</p>
<p>slipper1234,
As far as getting hired by GS or Lehman for an investment banking analyst job working in traditional corporate finance or M&A, I agree with your points (although if the right student can get in the process, I would say that they are more open to non-feeder schools than you suggest). But my point was not that that Dartmouth or Harvard won't put one in an advantageous interviewing position (it will), but that a talented and persistent student from W&L or Emory can also get in the door on Wall Street. IMO, it is not either/or, it is degrees of preferential consideration, heavily created by a history of hiring from so-called "elite" (mostly NE) schools for decades. </p>
<p>And prestige is greatly overrated, both of the job itself and how undergraduate colleges are seen in corporate America. One large point that often gets missed here on CC is how minor a role traditional investment banking plays at the major Wall Street firms. Even at exalted GS, traditional IB only generated 17% of the revenues in the last quarter. GS and the other BB firms make FAR more money in their trading businesses (Fixed Income, Equities, Commodities, Currencies) and, in some cases, even more money in their own principal trading activities. BTW, there is also a lot of hiring going on in these areas. </p>
<p>openingdoors,
Thankfully I am not singlehandedly making the pitch that there are a lot of good schools out there that can get a student to Wall Street. LOL. Lots of folks on the Street know the breadth of student quality that exists at America's colleges. Yes, you are correct that folks at the non-target schools have a more difficult time than students coming from the Whartons or the Columbias of the world. I agree with your view that the wheels are not as well greased coming from Emory, Johns Hopkins, et al. But students from these non-target schools can and do get hired all the time and even at the premier firms. Their numbers are undeniably smaller, but they're there and the student quality coming out of those places is every bit as strong as that of the traditional hiring hotspots. </p>
<p>In fact, one could make the argument that it can be easier coming from an Emory than U Penn as the internal competition from U Penn is so much more competitive and intense. Firms don't want to hire 15 from U Penn and zero from Emory (assuming that the firms don't see a diminution in student quality when they make their selections). For a variety of reasons, firms would rather have broader pools of talent to draw from. No school or small group of schools has a monopoly on the great students. The firm that thinks otherwise (and hires exclusively from a small cabal) is going to end up like the British monarchy….</p>
<p>Here is career survey data on Berkeley Business Administration grads, including average salaries, employer names and job titles:</p>
<p>Career</a> Center - What Can I Do With a Major In...?</p>
<p>And for Berkeley Econ majors:
Career</a> Center - What Can I Do With a Major In...?</p>
<p>UCBChemEGrad,</p>
<p>I don't think your link was quite reliable. </p>
<p>Why? There was a low response turnout.</p>
<p>Year / Graduated / Responded / Percent
2006 / 302 / 149 / 49%</p>
<p>^ The purpose mainly was to point out that investment banks recruit at Berkeley (the topic of this thread)...You can see the employer names and job titles.</p>
<p>I see. That was actually quite an interesting read. But how I wished the responses have reached almost 100%. Anyhow, I think no one will argue that Berkeley grads are highly employable. The Businessweek survey put the school on top of their list for MOST Employable graduates. Like I said, very few schools can match Berkeley in terms of employability. </p>
<p>BTW, do you have the link for Dartmouth's?</p>
<p>WOW! According the links which UCBChemEGrad provided, McKinsey recruits Berkeley grads. That's cool!</p>
<p>I'm a Berkeley guy. I'm sure Slipper can provide Dartmouth's. ;)</p>
<p>Investment Banking Career Fair:
UFA/UMCG</a> - Investment Banking Forum 2007 to be held Thursday, Sept. 6th 2007 at MLK Pauley Ballroom 6:30-9:00PM</p>
<p>On that website, I saw only 2 blonds. All the rest are Asians. Hehehe... I'm blond (caucasian), but have lived most of my life in Asia. My culture orientation is therefore, Asian, perticularly Filipino/Singaporean.</p>
<p>If you guys look at Berkeley's employment report, only 9% of the MBA grads (couldn't find undergrad employment report) work in the Northeast after graduation. Yet as UCBChemEGrad shows, pretty much all the major IB firms recruit there. CC seems to be over-represented with people in the east coast and their opinion is often skewed by what's on Wall Street while they probably don't know what's on Market Street (San Francisco). :)</p>
<p>In a way, Berkeley may be a better choice since Stanford is the only major competitor. In Chicago, Northwestern's main rival is pretty much just Chicago and Chicago is a pretty big finance center in its own right. In NYC, however, there are lots of top schools in that region and so many of them are aspired to get into IB. You may want to take that into consideration.</p>
<p>I'm not even going to bother to read the posts above but as a Pton student, I can tell you the following.</p>
<p>Harvard/Princeton/Wharton are by far the best
Yale is slightly below and MIT another small notch below, equivalent student quality but recruiting is not as good. MIT does well for S&T and quant but its all the same recruiters so I'm sure they do well for banking if they desire. That being said, I haven't seen very many MIT bankers but that might self selection.
Then comes...Dartmouth. Yes, Dartmouth. My own summer had students from HYPS and Dartmouth. That was it. Don't underestimate the advantage they get from their winter internships.
Upenn is somewhere in here and the CAS students def benefit from all the recruiters coming for Wharton.
Columbia and NYU do quite well and definitely have an easier time interviewing, etc. because of their location.</p>
<p>With that in mind, if you want to do banking, go to Dartmouth hands down. After that its a toss up between Stern and Duke. I'd lean towards Stern but would say go to Duke, its a much better educational experience (more college-y imo).</p>