Please rank following schools for a prospective I-Banker

College Search & Selection
61

<p>Sam Lee,</p>

<p>You are correct. It does not mirror. Additionally, I never stated Northwestern was not highly recruited. In fact it is; however, it does not place at the same level as Princeton or Dartmouth.</p>

<p>elsijfdl tries to use that consulting tiering system to give insight into how universities place into Wall Street banks. This method is utterly FLAWED. </p>

<p>For example, by using his method, an individual would get the impression that NYU-Stern does terribly for investment banking recruiting as it is not present in any of the consulting tiers. </p>

<p>That is laughable as it places its students into banking much better than many of the universities named in Tier 5 (i.e. SMU, Claremont, etc.). Moreover, Brown, Chicago and Cornell, especially should not be grouped with the aforementioned for the same reason.</p>

<p>NYU-Stern is known much more for its finance prowess, and it is a known fact it places much better into IBD than consulting. Given this, you cannot use consulting data to accurately depict university placement into investment banks. </p>

<p>No ifs, ands, or buts.</p>

62

<p>
[quote]
1) Show me official McKinsey, BCG, Bain, etc. recruiting material which states that schools such as Brown, Cornell and Chicago are "Tier 5" schools. Oh, what's that? You don't have such materials? Thought so.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>only 1/5 of BCH, Bain, Monitor, McKinsey, and Mercer considers either Brown, Cornell, or Chicago a "core" recruiting school (defined @ the website). That is where "tier 5" came from. Tier 4 has 2/5, tier 3 3/5, etc.</p>

<p>Michigan has 3/5 of those consulting firms recruiting it as a "core" school. Brown et al only has 1/5. So unfortunately, yes, brown et al students do take a backseat to michigan grads when it comes to being recruited by top consulting firms.</p>

<p>and to Majay, you are just spewing rhetoric and conjecture. post something, anything to support what you are saying. you claim northwestern isn't as heavily recruited as princeton or dartmouth, but the only posted data from companies doing the recruiting says otherwise.</p>

<p>and also, anyone who can come up with a better methodology than "post your opinions" for estimating ibanking recruiting is welcome to try and improve upon my consulting recruitment data. </p>

<p>the fact of the matter is, MC and IB both look for highly qualified, quantitatively-apt students, and both recruit from largely the same pool, so while the lists may not be entirely synchronious, they are likely to be representative of each other.</p>

63

<p>Believe me, if I could post:
- Numbers from my SA and FT resume books (Not at home right now)
- Testimony from HR (not in NYC anymore)</p>

<p>I would have.</p>

<p>You claim Northwestern is on par with Princeton and Dartmouth based on data you have posted giving insight into consulting recruiting not banking, which I already stated is not an accurate depiction. I seriously dont understand why that is so hard to comprehend.</p>

64

<p>alright, when you get home post some numbers, then we can have a discussion comparing data, not opinions.</p>

<p>consulting isn't ibanking obviously, but read the last part of my previous post.</p>

65

<p>
[quote]
the fact of the matter is, MC and IB both look for highly qualified, quantitatively-apt students, and both recruit from largely the same pool

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This part I agree with, which is why I do not dispute that Northwestern is highly recruited for either.</p>

66

<p>
[quote]
only 1/5 of BCH, Bain, Monitor, McKinsey, and Mercer considers either Brown, Cornell, or Chicago a "core" recruiting school (defined @ the website). That is where "tier 5" came from. Tier 4 has 2/5, tier 3 3/5, etc.</p>

<p>Michigan has 3/5 of those consulting firms recruiting it as a "core" school. Brown et al only has 1/5. So unfortunately, yes, brown et al students do take a backseat to michigan grads when it comes to being recruited by top consulting firms.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh really? Let's stick to that example for a quick moment:</p>

<p>Brown:</p>

<p>Bain & Co.:
Bain</a> & Company: BROWN UNIVERSITY</p>

<p>BCG:
BCG:</a> BROWN UNIVERSITY</p>

<p>That's two already that recruit directly at Brown, interview at Brown and have a dedicated Brown recruiting team. If that's not a "core" school then what is?</p>

<p>So already, that information is totally incorrect. And I only checked one school (Brown) and I only checked two websites (Bain and BCG). Here's a tip: try actually checking materials you haphazardly cut and paste before slapping together such a sloppy list.</p>

<p>I say again, anyone who says that schools such as Brown, Cornell or Chicago are "Tier 5" schools for either consulting or i-banking has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Period.</p>

<p>Lastly, this is an Investment Banking thread last time I checked. And when I was an Investment Banking Analyst at a Bulge Bracket firm, there were plenty of Brown and Cornell grads and I don't recall ever meeting a single UVA, Michigan or Cal graduate so you do the math.</p>

67

<p>"Lastly, this is an Investment Banking thread last time I checked. And when I was an Investment Banking Analyst at a Bulge Bracket firm, there were plenty of Brown and Cornell grads and I don't recall ever meeting a single UVA, Michigan or Cal graduate so you do the math."</p>

<p>The_Prestige, Michigan places over 250 undergrads into top Wall Street IBanks annually. Ross along places over 100 undergrads into Wall Street IBanks. The schools of LSA and Engineering combined place as many as Ross. UVa places many of its own in major Wall Street firms too. I am not sure how you managed to "never" bump into a single one of them. </p>

<p>For fun, I went through all the profiles of the Carlyle Group, and Michigan and UVa have more alums (for fairness and consistantcy, I am only referring to undergraduate degrees) represented than Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Stanford or Yale.</p>

<p>The</a> Carlyle Group : Team Members</p>

<p>That is not to say that Brown is not heavily recruited, but I cannot think of many schools that are more heavily recruited by top Wall Street IBanks than Michigan.</p>

68

<p>Alex, </p>

<p>Simple question: do you believe that schools such as Brown, Cornell and Chicago are "Tier 5" schools for either major consulting or bulge bracket investment banking firms?</p>

69

<p>I followed the link provided by Alexandre and looked at the analysts. For good measure, I looked at the first and last five names. So, where did those ten people study?</p>

<p>While it is true that, short of checking every person listed on the Carlyle site, this is far from conclusive, it does offer a glimpse at the hiring practices at the entry level. And unless the participants in this CC thread are discussing middle-management, this is what matters to 17-20 years old. However, I'm sure that a complete compilation of all the members of that pretigious firms would reveal a pretty large distribution of degrees. Of course, one would expect an important representation at the "usual suspects," especially if counting the "famous" graduate schools. </p>

<p>In the meantime, pretending that only a few roads lead to the top of the mountain (if such mountain is one's objective" seems a tad farfetched.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Mr. Bach received his bachelors of science from Syracuse University with a dual major in finance and public relations.</p>

<p>Mr. Bertrand is a graduate of Ecole Sup?rieure de Commerce et de Management, France.</p>

<p>Mr. Brewer received his B.A. in economics from the University of California at Berkeley.</p>

<p>Mr. Davis received his B.S. from the University of Maryland, summa cum laude, with a double major in finance and marketing and a focus in accounting.</p>

<p>Ms. F?ller earned a master's degree in business administration and economics from the WHU Otto-Beisheim School of Management in Vallendar. </p>

<p>Ms. Serur holds a B.S. in chemical engineering from the Universidad Iberoamericana in Mexico City.</p>

<p>Mr. Thommes received his degree in commercial and managerial engineering from the Facultes Universitaires Catholiques de mons in Belgium and a fiscality degree from the Cahambre de Commerce of Luxembourg.</p>

<p>Ms. Velaz Moliner received a law degree from the University of Zaragoza (Spain) and a master's in community law from the University of Toulouse (France).</p>

<p>Ms. Wengryn graduated summa cum laude from Duquesne University with a B.A. in finance and investment management.</p>

<p>Mr. da Costa received his B.T.S. from the management and commercial school in Luxembourg (ECG).

[/quote]
</p>

70

<p>
[quote]
That's two already that recruit directly at Brown, interview at Brown and have a dedicated Brown recruiting team. If that's not a "core" school then what is?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>haha, i can see from reading the thread that I linked to that you were already arguing with this information there, before I even re-posted it here.</p>

<p>core schools are a step up from 'visited' schools, they recruit more students, have more efforts (resume drops, etc.). If there wasn't a difference between the two companies wouldn't identify which schools are "core."</p>

<p>Brown and several of your ivy league schools are in the 'lower tiers' for "core" school recognition by major consulting firms, you can't argue with the data, it's released by the firms themselves.</p>

<p>So I'm not going to keep arguing with you because you are looking at a 1+1=2 equation and saying "YEAH RIGHT. TELL ME HOW THAT'S TRUE. SHOW ME EVIDENCE. THAT'S TOTALLY INCORRECT" well... going through the world refusing to accept fact is called denial. or worse, ignorance.</p>

71

<p>but elsijfdl, the two links do show on-campus interviews at brown, not just resume drop (click events). the MC list is like 3 years old after all, so it's possible it's outdated.</p>

72

<p>To answer your question The_Prestige, I would say Brown and Cornell are Tier 2 or Tier 3 at the very worst.</p>

73

<p>Princeton is most definitely not Tier 2. Its def on par with Harvard and better than Stanford and arguably a little bit better than Yale. In Goldmans 2007 undergrad class for IBD and S&T, Penn/Wharton had the most students, then Princeton, then Harvard. Regardless, this is a stupid list. MIT as tier 3? Cornell as tier 5? Also, I don't even know where this list came from...Mckinsey/BCG/Bain/Mercer/Monitor all recruited and had on-campus interviews at Princeton...</p>

<p>And finance definitely is the most prestige obessessed field there is, go to the best school possible. Look around at where places recruit, Blackstone goes to a handful of schools (I know it does Princeton, Penn, Dartmouth and I'm guessing Harvard and Yale as well). Yea, its possible to get a job at Mckinsey from UConn but even the difference between Cornell and WashU is huge in terms of getting into a company (even though the difference in schools is small)</p>

74

<p>
[quote]
To answer your question The_Prestige, I would say Brown and Cornell are Tier 2 or Tier 3 at the very worst.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Here we go again ... arguing about where schools should be placed on lists that only shine by their total absence of rhyme and reason. Next, there will be a series of arguments about what constitutes a "core" school as opposed to a "visited" school. Of course, the next step might lead to a discussion about the size of the "resume drop box" if not about the numbers of business cards left by "recruiters" as opposed to mere "visitors." </p>

<p>There are only two words that describe all of this mumbo-jumbo: futile and silly. </p>

<p>Reading posts claiming that Company X does not recruit at School A gives a chuckle to students from School A who not only interned at Company X as sophomores, but were offered a full-time position before starting their senior year. </p>

<p>I am still amused to read how people can speak with such conviction about the recruiting by IB and consulting firm and define general patterns when the recruiting is so ... individualized. Of course, there will always be people who believe that companies recruit candidates based on a narrow set of criteria and only at schools that have been known to deliver sufficient "paint-by-the-numbers" students that fit those pre-established pigeonholes. </p>

<p>All this discussions where Brown or Cornell fit in a list of Ivies must seem weird to the thousands of students around the world who have never thought that a plant carried such weight. All they know is that their unknown foreign school does not seem to handicap them too darn much in landing jobs at the bluest-blood US firms, especially if they happen to have a few contacts in their country of origin. Whooops, here's that magic word "contact"! </p>

<p>However, do not hesitate to carry on and create even more senseless lists. Comical relief is always welcome!</p>

75

<p>


</p>

<p>I see that you are still clinging to this completely erroneous post from another website which you have no idea what sources they came from.</p>

<p>And instead of actually doing your own research, you claim this as your own. And worse still, when you are called on it, instead of actually owning up and admitting that you have no idea what you are talking about, you continue to live in denial and believe this utter nonsense.</p>

<p>Please SHOW ME THE LINKS as to which the "CORE" schools are as you state. And not just for ONE firm. If we are to believe your post, you should provide ALL THE CORE SCHOOLS for McKinsey, Bain, BCG, Monitor, Mercer. And these should be official links from their company websites. Because, after all, this is what you claim is where this ranking came from. You've talked the talk, let's see you walk the walk. Let's see if you have anything concrete to back up your claims. Let's see if you come up with this official list of CORE SCHOOLS.</p>

<p>Simple exercise: YOU CLAIM that this is website information clearly stated as official data. So, let's see it. Let's see these firms LIST CLEARLY which schools are considered CORE SCHOOLS. This will be interesting. I'll be eagerly waiting.</p>

<p>If you cannot pass this simple test, then have the decency to admit that you are completely and utterly wrong.</p>

76

<p>


</p>

<p>OK, so the natural follow-up question is, what Tier would you place Michigan, UVA and Cal?</p>

77

<p>Where is University of Chicago. They would be number 1 in my opinion. They have the best econ department by far and they have recruiting dinners nearly every couple of weeks.</p>

78

<p>


</p>

<p>Don't worry Sam, elsijfdl, will soon be posting every CORE school for all 5 major consulting firms. He must have these links and lists ready, after all, how did he come up with this list if he didn't just pull them out of thin air?</p>

79

<p>based solely on your list..without suggesting other inserts...in terms of recruiting it should look like this </p>

<ol>
<li>UC-Berkeley Haas (Heavily recruited)</li>
<li>Dartmouth Econ (has alot of alum on the street more so than most think)</li>
<li>NYU Stern ( NYC +alums..however its got its ties with some banks ex ..Lehman, Citi..ignored by others who take very few students) ex MS, GS<br></li>
<li>Cornell AEM (Heavily recruited as well..however school is really large so comp is fierce)</li>
<li>UMich Ross (great shool...has good reputation) My associate and MD last summer went to UMich ross</li>
<li>Duke Econ (good ties with MS (john mack) but not considered a heacy target </li>
<li>UCLA BusEcon (overshadowed by berkeley and stanford)</li>
<li> Northwestern Econ ( not recruited much for banking..more consulting but still places some kids)</li>
<li>CMU Tepper (recruited heavy for S&T but not so much for banking)</li>
<li>Emory Goizueta (great school but its location hurts the school)</li>
<li>WashU Olin ( met very few students from washu that worked on wall st..not recruited for banking much)</li>
</ol>

80

<p>The_Prestige, Michigan (as well as UVa and Cal) would be a tier 3. Ross (as well as Haas and McIntire) is a tier 2. That is based on my experience with Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers.</p>