<p>You guys should hear the uproar on the list serv about plebe care packages that are being allegedly opened by cadre and pilfered. You have the hover parents on one side and the spit shined ex Navy people on the other. I was under the impression that plebes opened the care packages in front of cadre and anything that was not allowed was taken and disposed of or given back at PPW.
I prefaced my comments by admitting i didn't have a dog in the fight but liked to throw my 2 cents in on controversial topics. I simply asked if the Government , especially the Naval Acad. , didn't have to abide by federal law. The silence has been deafening. I was expecting all sorts of fur to fly but the silence has been deafening. If indeed cadre did go through and open plebe care packages then this is a violation of federal law and therefore the Acad. is exempt. Interesting.</p>
<p>Ouch,
I just got my hand spanked by the moderator of the list serv. He said my comments lacked decorum and we shouldn't criticize the Academy. Is it criticism to ask if the Academy has to abide by federal law? No, it's because they are between a rock and a hard place. If they admit the cadre may have opened care packages then they are disregarding federal law or are exempt from following them( which we all know is not true). If they side with the hover parents, then it is crticism of the Academy. If it did happen and you are not allowed to criticize an obvious wrong , then the truths our republic were founded upon are obsolete.</p>
<p>The Midshipman live by the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice). This has nothing to do with the carepackages but you have to know that your son, as a member of the Navy, will be living under a dfferent set of rules.</p>
<p>I know that. It didn't even have anything to do with my plebe. A parent on the list serv asked about why his daughter's care package was pilfered. He was pretty much raked over the coals by another and i kind of felt sorry for the guy and decided to start a little controversy. It was a slow saturday. i did find out alot about the parents list serv however. They don't like people who make waves. i guess I'm a wave maker because I ask hard questions.</p>
<p>Blackhawk</p>
<p>You now know why you will loath the list serv. From the “hover parents to spit shined X Military (even current Military) it is all so Polly Anna. My kid is great he/she did this that and the other, how many activities can we put after the name Joe Mid 10/10 This club, that athletics this major, that minor (Who are we trying to impress?) to the “don’t criticize the Academy or the Moderator will get you, and then there is just the blatant passing of wrong information – by current parents, former parents and even Alumni with information that is so outdated or just plain incorrect you almost have to laugh.</p>
<p>During Plebe summer the list serv does allow for Plebe parents to ask questions that they need answers to and cannot ask their Plebes. But really why should upperclass parents be asking questions to a list serv that can be and should be answered by their own Mid? If I want to know something I ask my Mid – he is there and is the only one that I should be asking. Personally the thing I find most disturbing are the posts that are only intended to put fear in the parents…this week would be the whole “change is in the air – new administration…” So maybe things are going to change, do I need to know this now? I really can wait until my Mid tells me as there is a good chance I’ll never hear a thing about it, but now I am left to wonder what those changes might be. The list serv is a bigger rumor mill than junior high girls!</p>
<p>Also, I would not tell your Plebe anything that you “learn” on the list serv – not because it is against the rules (could care less about their rules) but because if he is like most Mids they hate the whole list serv. Many find the whole concept as treating them like they are still in high school and a bit demeaning. Oh and that caveat of not forwarding the messages to any mid – don’t worry no one needs to as many have ways of seeing the posts. By second semester my mid said to me “I see XXXX’x mom has been posting a lot lately, too bad she brags so much as XXXX is really a nice guy!” - That mom probably has no idea that her son sees what she is posting and is horrified.</p>
<p>And then try getting off of the list serv. I have been trying since last March. Many e-mails to the moderators but to no avail I am somewhere in list serv la la land!. I am not the only one I have heard of with this dilemma.</p>
<p>I couldn't agree more. I figured this out some time ago. I love your characterization of a bunch of Jr. high school girls. I have met a number of parents via the site but now I usually just contact them directly. I don't understand the " we don't criticize the Acad." thing. I'm sure the Acad.is capable of making errors and maybe just maybe deserves criticisim at times. Your right about the misinformation thing as well. i have read where parents contrdict each other in back to back post. I just sort of threw up my hands and figured no one really knows what's going on except the kids that are there. I could go on and on but I agree with everthing you stated.
I may have succeeded in getting removed as I told the fella that runs it that it was his little toy and he could choose to remove my PRIVILEDGE of being on his site if he chooses. It won't be the first or last thing I get kicked out of or off of. Thanks for sharing your opinion. I value your opinion and also your right to express it.</p>
<p>hmmmm, sounds like we could go over to that list serv site and have a lot of fun with them by stirring things up !!!!! :) Good input as now I will NOT sign up for that. </p>
<p>Sounds like I will stay here as this site seems far more open to honest questions and conversations.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, are you guys distinguishing between the two listservs?
The one list [and I hesitate to post the site because that may drive more business to him] is a bit odd. A little fiefdom run by a guy who is quick to rap the knucles of any who disagree with him. That is certainly his prerogative, just somewhat annoying. My understanding is that he saw the opportunity to attract traffic to a website a bit earlier than USNAA did. Moderator's son is a 2001 graduate as I recall.</p>
<p>The other site, the "official" site is a bit more informative since you have current employees and parents running it. A bit less Pollyannish but still sensitive to criticism of the Academy.</p>
<p>Oh well, you take from each what you can use and leve the rest behind. No different than this site.</p>
<p>That's the guy. A little fiefdom, that about sums it up. Amember of my state parents club warned me about this guys but I didn't listen. I guess I learned.
This fella is really full of himself. According to him we should say nothing that is critical of the Academy and that he has the power to censor any and all. Sounds like a guy in Germany circa 1940. As I said it's his toy and if he wants to play with a bunch of feel gooders thats fine. I too like this site as it seems to allow you to express your opinions and concerns without being sent to the principal's office. What a jerk.</p>
<p>Welcome to the club Blackhawk...almost everyone I know who joined that list has had a run in with his guy and gotten their hand spanked. I jumped off it pretty quickly and now I stick to the official USNA parent's list.</p>
<p>I personally love the parent's listserv! I've gotten tons of helpful information from the site and have seen many, many friendly and kind exchanges between parents. I'm very grateful to have it available and hope that those parents out there seeing this thread aren't dissuaded from giving it a try. Obviously, it isn't for everyone but it certainly is a blessing for some of us.
And, as far as the official parent's site goes, I've emailed them on 3 different occasions in order to join and have not once gotten a response. I believe there is a posted phone # which I have yet to try.</p>
<p>As an example of how ridiculous the "do not forward..." statement is, my two roomates and I have an e-mail that recieves the various ListServ messages.</p>
<p>Our Thrusday night ritual entertainment was to read the messages and laugh at the amount of misinformation that permeates the entire affair. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Addmittedly the "official" USNA one is generally a bit more on the ball...but nevertheless the mindless crap that tends to get spewed out on the information superhighway is mind boggling.</p>
<p>The long and short, if you have a question, ask your Midshipman. Don't tell them "well I heard this..." thus forcing them to track down a definitive denial of whatever lie you happened to read. The Midshipman are at USNA...the ListServ is not.</p>
<p>The listserves can be helpful-
and harmful.</p>
<p>It is, IMO, up to the reader to read with a very discriminating eye.</p>
<p>I have a mid who offers "little" in terms of who/what/when and where, so the site offers me an opportunity to find out answers to many of my questions (most of them have to do with scheduling- holidays-breaks-tickets-upcoming events-etc)..... all the "little things" that our mid does not take the time to share for some reason or another (I like to think that is because his head is burried in his books....:o .... ).....</p>
<p>at the same time, I recognize that these are "private" forums that have rules attached- so just as I expect my kids (mids or not) to respect the "rules and reguations," so I try to do the same.</p>
<p>What I find is that I get far more than I give-
surprisingly enough, I rarely-if ever-post to the listserve unless I have a specific question that needs an answer I am having difficulty finding elsewhere. </p>
<p>On the other hand, when I find a need to "bounce" something off others, this forum- (or should I say PMs to select posters on CC) that I feel can offer a different perspective or input - is where I come.</p>
<p>One positive aspect of the listserve has been to identify/contact other parents within our mid's company- which has been great. The parents were able to meet each other at PPW, and again during sea trials, herndon and the dinner that followed. As a sub-group of the listserve, it has been great.</p>
<p>What I would suggest is to respect the rules and not forward information-
if you want to paraphrase for discussion, fine-
but posting ver-batem posts from that site on another site is, IMO, not advisable.</p>
<p>Nor is it advisable to discuss with your MId items that are posted on that site- or others for that matter-
they just don't have the time nor interest to care about it, if truth be told!</p>
<p>just my opinion~</p>
<p>
[quote]
The long and short, if you have a question, ask your Midshipman. Don't tell them "well I heard this..." thus forcing them to track down a definitive denial of whatever lie you happened to read. The Midshipman are at USNA...the ListServ is not.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>could not agree with you more!!!!</p>
<p>OHHH BLACKHAWK! I KNEW I LOVED YOU FOR ANOTHER REASON OTHER THAN BEING FROM GEORGIA! COULD THAT LISTSERV BE ANY MORE POLLYANNA! Give me a break! But I do think there are a few STICKINTHEMUD Parents on CC that are part of that group from LISTSERV.</p>
<p>One parent actually sent me a PM on here attempting to boss me on the rules of ListServ and posting info from it.. "WHAT IS and IS NOT ADVISABLE" (as if I asked for their advice). AS IF IT IS A STATE SECRET! Give me a break! After a day or so of "WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS SITUATION" I found putting them on Ignore worked best! Amazing how some have been made the Queens and Kings of USNA and did not tell the rest of us low peasants. </p>
<p>Let the rebellion begin!</p>
<p>LOL, it is just like when I went to college (it was NOT a military academy) and always wondered what the parents of some of the students were like. I always enjoyed "parent's weekends" since you got to see them in person and it was always amazing how much they were like their parents!!!!</p>
<p>With this forum it is the same thing in reverse.......</p>
<p>I wonder what the Academy children of these 'busybody' or 'queenbee' people are like LOL?</p>
<p>KJ, you are a trip. In fact I think I was the one to recommend that site to you at the parents club meeting. I apologize for my lack of judgement. Those folks are not shy about letting eveyone know that they are judge and jury of what can and can't be broadcast concerning the Acad. Great idea about the ignore thing. i think I will exercise my priveldge of doing just that. I'm sure there are some moles on here that report back to the Fuhrer. The NA parents list serv is the OFFICIAL list serv and it does not include hear say and rumors. I will stick to that one if I have a question that one of us can't answer.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The NA parents listserv is the OFFICIAL listserv and it does not include hear say and rumors.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Admittedly the "official" USNA one is generally a bit more on the ball...but nevertheless the mindless crap that tends to get spewed out on the information superhighway is mind boggling.
[/quote]
Well said Opus!</p>
<p>Buyer beware! You will find over the course of the year that site can too have its fare share of parental misinformation and judgment. You will soon figure out whom to ignore. (I don’t even look at the subject line, I see certain e-mail addresses or names and hit the delete button immediately.</p>
<p>Mom2Lola: yes many self appointed kings and queens! You are very correct about the lurking on this site too. (I will let you figure out who, but trust me it will not take you long!)</p>
<p>I too have a Mid that is not the most communicative when it comes to all things Academy. However, I figure even for the Mids who tend not to share too much, asking them first is probably a good rule to follow, what would you do if they were at college or University. I don’t think you would be finding any list serv for the parents. (I can hear it already But these kids are not at normal college – my answer to that… if they had enlisted who would you be asking?) I am certainly not saying that the entire site is bad, you just need to filter a lot, take other things with a grain of salt, learn who you can trust and privately email, and in the end defer to your Mid as they are the ones directly effected.</p>
<p>I don't know what list serve this is. Someone pm me. The only one I use is through the usna website. </p>
<p>They really do have to open their boxes/packages in front of the cadre? I had no idea. Not that I sent anything wrong/bad, I just didn't know.</p>
<p>ya know whats sad.. I took them off ignore to do a lil test of the "spy" and sure enough.. I got another PM telling me the rules and regulations! I feel like my mom is on here watching me. You have been outed sister! But thank you for giving all of us something to chuckle at. HA HA HA</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wonder what the Academy children of these 'busybody' or 'queenbee' people are like LOL?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>they are repectable and honorable and know enough to follow the rules and not spit into the wind.</p>
<p>Much more than I can say to Lola's mom. But since you have chosen to continue this publicly, so be it.</p>
<p>The rules are simple. And since you (lolasmom) have failed to respect them, or what was a "very gentle and private" suggestion to RECONSIDER what you are doing when posting VERBATIM messages from the MODERATORS of the parents listserv WITHOUT THEIR EXPRESS PERMISSION- WITH THEIR NAME ATTACHED- AND IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO WHAT IS CLEARLY POSTED AS 'NOT TO FORWARD'...and from a PRIVATE FORUM to a PUBLIC ONE, then the question has to be "what is up with YOU???"</p>
<p>And as far as "blocking"....next time you post that you have put someone on your "ignore list" I suggest you do just that- for apparently your bravado on this site has overstated your actions!</p>
<p>So do hit the ignore button-
and I will repeat- since you apparently did not get the message the first time around- be respectful of the rules of the listserve.<br>
Sadly, short of that, you will not be the first plebe parent to be denied further access to the parents list serve. YOUR CHOICE.</p>
<p>And for the record- I have no interest in reporting anything "back" to anyone. And for the record, I believe my posts to the parents listserve have numbered 3. 3 questions to which I received answers- promt, accurate and on the money.</p>
<p>Time2-
no need to worry about what the parents of these "busybody" or "queenbees" are like- you have far more to occupy your time with. Nevertheless, would suggest you hang around for a bit more than 13 posts before drawing any conclusions.</p>
<p>Most of us "queenbees" and "busybodys" are here for one purpose- and that is to help others navigate their way through what can be a difficult process. I needed help, and I got lots. I stay to offer what I can- as do many others. There are "many" who contribute lots of valuable information- parents from almost every class currently at the USNA, BGO's, alumni, and even Mids themselves. All come to the table with different experiences, and different perspectives. And while I have at times not agreed with all that has been posted, or taken issue with particular comments, I have learned to respect them all.</p>
<p>What I have come realize is that the "tone" of parents- plebe parents in particular- changes the moment I-Day comes and goes..... there is a certain arrogance that enters the discussion- and generally I chaulk that up to the anxiety felt by most parents over that first summer. What I have also learned is that humility is a good thing- none of us has "all the answers"....certainly not me....and certainly not parents that are 3 weeks into the academy experience- and if you really took the time to know "me" you would find "queenbee" to be about the last word that would be applicable.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that the USNA is a humbling experience- for our Mids, and for the parents. Some get it right away- some will have to fall harder, further, before they get it- and some will fail to do so entirely. Getting "into" the academy is just the tip of the iceburg. Getting through plebe summer is the first hurdle. If what was posted on another thread is correct, already there are 28 plebes that have not made it, and one who is lucky to be still with us. And no doubt, 28 sets of parents wondering "what happened"...."what went wrong".... and perhaps a bit more humbled as a result of the experience. </p>
<p>But what parents often don't realize, admist all the anticipation and anxiety over plebe summer and I-Day and phone calls to home and care packages, is that the REAL hurdle comes with the academic year- times 2 semesters, times 4 years. They will question over and over why they are there- and you just might find yourself not knowing how "best" to support, encourage, etc. </p>
<p>And this is "not just like when I went to college"..... I have been to college. I have been to graduate school. I have taught at both the graduate and undergraduate level. And now I am finishing up my doctorate. And I can attest to one thing for certain- THIS IS NOTHING LIKE ANY COLLEGE I KNOW OF.</p>
<p>What you will find are parents that are universally very proud of their kids. Very proud of their flag. Very proud of each and every Mid out there who has challenged themselves to take this journey. And many who are on the path of becoming BGO's themselves to help others. What you will find is that there are far more shared values amongst this group than there are differences. </p>
<p>But if you contend that the "apple does not fall far from the tree," then all I can say is thank goodness for most, and for the rest, the best we can do is pray for a strong wind to blow them a bit further away. For if adults haven't figured out how to "discuss" in a respectful way, how can the kids be expected to "respect" those who they will be both accountable and responsible to and for? </p>
<p>I certainly don't have all the answers- hardly! I have found myself in very tough situations on 2 seperate occassions now, and both times I found great advice from the forums- one from an alumni on CC, and one from a parent on the listserve. For me, the information and advice from those "passing before- been there-done that" was priceless- and worth every minute of reading through some other "pollyanna" posts. </p>
<p>But choose for yourself.</p>
<p>This "queenbee" is nothing more than a "worker bee" when all is said and done, trying to get from one day to the next.</p>
<p>I will let those who sling the lables around wear them for themselves....and I will pray for that strong wind, or for a soft landing when they, too, find themselves a bit humbled by this experience that is the USNA.</p>