Plebe Summer vs. Boot Camp?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
21

<p>First of all, Plebe Summer is much longer than Boot Camp. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel from almost the first day of Boot Camp. On the other hand, the end of Plebe Summer seems light years away.</p>

<p>Former enlisted midshipman always like to brag about their previous enlisted experiences and, invariably, they always say how it was harder. But my experience is that they did not seem to noticeably excel during Plebe Summer compared to everybody else - unless you want to count shining shoes. They struggled right along with everybody else.</p>

<p>I was very apprehensive when I entered the Academy (1975), being from St. Louis with an insurance man as a father. I had no Navy pedigree or experience. My roommate's father was an Admiral! There were three or four classmates in my summer company who had prior enlisted service. It didn't take very long and we all seemed equal. I didn't get the sense that those with prior enlisted experience were running faster, jumping higher, had greater endurance, marched better, or folded their scivvies any better than the rest of us landlubbers. Nor did I get the sense that they were, some how, less challenged than the rest of us.</p>

22

<p>Unfortunately plebe summer is no longer as challenging.</p>

23

<p>Yep, started going down hill in 1966.</p>

24

<p>haha exactly '69..</p>

25

<p>i think that they should put it back to the way it used to be! i mean seriously no "startiling awakinings"!! that is really dumb what if after they graduate and are stationd on a ship and are being attacked in the middle of the night? what are they supposed to do then? i think that is really really stupid!</p>

26

<p>No disrespect but please....no comparison and there shouldn't be! Just ask any Midn. that was formerly an enlisted Marine.
BTW, USMC Boot Camp is usually 13 weeks long and after boot camp you're off to something similar to Plebe Summer till you gain experience and make NCO. That can be 3 to 5 years.
But...we're not talking apples to apples, it might be close to Navy Boot camp from what I'm told though lol.</p>

<p>One other note, that video in the first post was of "Hollywood" USMC RD San Diego, real Marines passed through Parris Island lol</p>

27

<p>I was awakend by shower rods, heavy metal, and yelling. It's weird that I get to say this, but we (2011) had the last real Plebe Summer.</p>

28

<p>to go along with zackaw-i think they should be awaken almost everyday by shower rods, air horns, ....etc. i think it is just getting too easy.</p>

29

<p>I hardly think it's easy this year.</p>

<p>I don't know about the shower rods (yet), but I know of one mom's comments about her phone call from her plebe-daughter, who was commenting on how "psychotic detailers waking her up by screaming right in her face" was not her idea of fun. Another mom I talk to was saying how her son was shocked that they weren't even allowed to close their doors to their rooms to sleep (my son was not surprised by this).</p>

<p>They're not staying at the Hilton with gentle wake up calls! This is as real a Plebe Summer as anyone else has had. </p>

<p>(With the possible exception of USNA69, because his was probably harder than anyone prior to or since that time!)</p>

<p><em>kidding</em>!!</p>

30

<p>Zackaw, you're right 2011 had the last real plebe summer.
And mother's shouldn't be surprised by the fact that they can't have their doors closed. You're supposed to be in uniform at all times unless you're showering so the doors have to be opened. That is also during plebe year, but you can sleep with the doors closed then.</p>

31

<p>Please, plebes complaining about not being able to shut their doors? We had to keep ours open the entire plebe year until lights out. Plebe summer, the doors never shut. You might as well kept the doorstop right where it was with the door propped open for the entire 43 days.</p>

<p>Our detailers didn't care. They used shower rods, megaphones, and everything else. They were so crazy that 2 of them ended up getting fried. How did they respond? By passing that info on to second set, and the second set detailers making us do worse stuff like "wall sits with rifles until everyone comes out of the head" and "PT'ing until the walls and windows sweat" and having "5th squad". Trust me, you didn't want to be in 5th squad, that meant they were trying to weed you out.</p>

<p>I hear that the plebes can't be rated at tables after the bell and there can be no yelling during meal time. King Hall is very quiet during lunch. I remember going into King Hall for every meal felt like a boxing match. The lights, the noises, the yelling...you almost dreaded meal.</p>

<p>Early reports from the detailers are that this year's class had a 42% pass rate on the initial PRT, the lowest the Academy has ever seen. Weapons and sailing detail has reported numerous incidents of disrespect...While every class ventures to say they had the last real plebe summer, I'm going to concede that 2011 might have had the last one.</p>

<p>When the administration makes a pitch that their goal for 2012 is, "No plebe left behind", it just sounds soft to me. What are you going to do when the rough gets tough? I'd rather have rigorous training to get rid of those midshipmen who really don't want to be here or aren't cut out to lead. We don't want people who are going to make mistakes out there, it's only going to hurt us later. I'd rather graduate 800 fully competant officers than 1200 with bad apples mixed in between. Call it harsh, but I don't think DoD wants it's leaders skating through military academies never to have faced a real challenge.</p>

<p>Besides all of this, the real bonds you get with your classmates are those in your company you fought through plebe summer with. Everyone gains friends in their companies, but the people you had in your squad during plebe summer leave a lasting impact on you. My best friends at the Academy were those who were in my squad during plebe summer. We shared the common experience of having the toughest squad leader our company has ever seen. We couldn't sit down to eat until we had gotten every rate correct and maintained that you only needed 15 minutes to eat. He yelled constantly and asked us rates like the OOW and MOOW on the second day and we had no clue. We were constantly pressured and never got to relax. While other squads were just learning menus, regular daily rates, and the military, we were doing chow calls and other stuff by day 2. There was such a higher expectation and it was frustrating to see some of our classmates getting off easier than we were.</p>

<p>Looking back on it all, I'm glad to have struggled through that with my squadmates, it changed my entire perspective on leadership and what the Fleet really needs us to be when we're done here.</p>

32

<p>
[quote]
Early reports from the detailers are that this year's class had a 42% pass rate on the initial PRT, the lowest the Academy has ever seen.

[/quote]

actually the number that was reported was 39%.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I hear that the plebes can't be rated at tables after the bell and there can be no yelling during meal time. King Hall is very quiet during lunch.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, plebes were reciting rates during noon meal...it might have been limited to "before the bell" ....I did not hear much as the eating was going on... just lots of eyes-in-the-boat, square meals and lots of plebes sitting on the edge of their chairs! In and out...faster than a heartbeat! </p>

<p>Yelling.... I guess everything is relative, but while I heard some loud commands, I did not witness any "in your face" degrading-type of yelling. The firsties that came to address our group mentioned that "yelling" has been ....not sure what the right word is.... but lets just say there is a "lot less" of it, and it is more constructive in nature. There was some concern expressed by the firsties... as well as several alumni in the room.... if the plebes were being vetted enough with this approach. Even with the softer approach, there were 16 in Tango as of this past Friday. Lets hope those that stay do so for the right reason, and those that find it's not the place for them have the courage to make that call.</p>

33

<p>i think it is getting easier and easier... eventhough i may still have to go through it, i think they should toughen up a bit. Who makes all of these "protective" rules? the supe?</p>

34

<p>Navy 2010 -- I'm really enjoying your insight into the academy. Are you a parent, alum, staff, mid . . . you definately have the inside scoop and first hand knowledge of the current activities on the Yard. Thanks for your participation on the forums.</p>

35

<p>As I've said before, it's almost like you could find Navy2010 in my ceiling if I checked. She has better insight than a lot of the mids themselves and could probably explain things better than we can!</p>

36

<p>GoNavyXC, I could not agree with you more. The strength of a Class is developed as you endure rough times together. This is also the time when the natural leadersa start to emerge and you see your squad and company mates ensuring that all who want to survive will. Also, the Fleet is not the place you want to find out whether or not someone can perform in a crisis or a stressful situation. These will happen whether on the front lines, in the air, during training evolutions, inport, during independent steaming, etc. This is the nature of the military's business. We need to ensure that those who are going to lead will be able to have their wits about them when the going gets tough. If everybody makes it through Plebe Year, I would not necesarily deem that to be successful. No selection process that deals with thenumber of variables as the SA selection process is 100% flawless.</p>

37

<p>


</p>

<p>Only "almost". Things must have really lightened up.</p>

<p>I suspect this is all much ado about nothing. Once the dust has settled, like most 'changes', nothing will have really changed. I honestly believe that the one thing that makes the SAs truly unique is the ability of their graduates to operate under extreme pressure. Hopefully, the few of us here are not the only ones to realize this.</p>

38

<p>
[quote]
As I've said before, it's almost like you could find Navy2010 in my ceiling if I checked. She has better insight than a lot of the mids themselves and could probably explain things better than we can!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not touching that one</p>

39

<p>^^^LOL!!!! :)</p>

<p>wow!!!!
I don't know what to say!! :o
I got this PM asking if I could still fit my head through the door.... and wondered "what the heck is going on now!!!!".....</p>

<p>Rest assured- you will not find me lurking in the ceiling anytime soon....it was hard enough trying to climb into the rack--let alone get down the next morning!!! (you can BET a foam mattress overlay will be on a certain someone's Christmas list this year!!!).... And don't even get me started on the A/C.... the next time someone rubs the A/C in your face as a "perk" I will be the first to "honor and defend"...let's see how "lucky" they would feel having to *rub the little budda's belly or 5 minutes to get it to turn on for 10.... and repeat from * every 15 minutes to keep it going!!! :eek: It took me a whole day to figure that one out....!!! </p>

<p>(but i did take a "peak" under those ceiling tiles...thanks to a misplaced foot trying to navigate the covers.... sure enough, found some "stuff" squirrled away up there!!! Go figure!!!) LOL!!!!</p>

<p>anyway...</p>

<p>
[quote]
She has better insight than a lot of the mids themselves and could probably explain things better than we can!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not bad for a "new navy mom!!!" ;)
(or is that a meddling mom??? :) )</p>

<p>listening.....it's all in the listening!!!! :o</p>

<p>.... may not always hit the target, but then again I have all you fine folks to keep me on the straight and narrow!!! ;)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Navy 2010 -- I'm really enjoying your insight into the academy. Are you a parent, alum, staff, mid . . . you definately have the inside scoop and first hand knowledge of the current activities on the Yard. Thanks for your participation on the forums.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Definately not an alumni... not that I would not have appreciated a crack at it, but my inquisitive nature and need to know the "who, what, when, where and why" behind everything would probably have set a new record for seperation!!! So let's just leave it at an appreciative parent who has been blessed with a decent kid who makes me very, very proud to be his "mom." :o</p>

<p>Mid is now a 2C, so lots of road ahead.
And while we first visited USNA back in his 10th grade, I actually have longer ties to that school up the Hudson that spans decades. Very much new to the "military family," and still trying to figure it out. Lots to learn....and figured that if this is where my kid was headed, I had better get up to speed quickly--- so lots and lots of reading, research, visiting, listening, questions, questions and questions!!! Fact or fiction, read it all.....reality to the absurd...("Dink Gadink" and "The Dark Side" even made it to the reading list!!!)</p>

<p>But thanks to the recruiting efforts of "many," (for which I am most honored) I just completed BGO training and hope to contribute on that level going forward. Last week was very informative indeed, and aside from the "official" training, I did get to see some of the inner workings of Bancroft (including the stuff off the tour, thanks to a few wayward turns!)... even found the "Ho Chi Min Trail!!!" </p>

<p>Uniform issue shop, tailor, laundry, cobbler, post office, sanitation... found it all! Luckly someone found me!!! </p>

<p>Short of climbing into the ceiling (I think you can get arrested for that!!! :eek: ) the "trick" is to invite lots of Mids out to dinner when you are down in Annapolis! Get a few of them together and you get a whole new perspective of the naval academy..... the good, the bad, the ugly, the exceptional and the outrageous! I swear... they have me peeing in my pants sometimes! Between football and lacrosse, home and away, that adds up to a lot of dinners and some very, very funny gouge!!!! Highly recommended and PRICELESS!!!!!! </p>

<p>Anyway, for all our "differences," I hope we never lose the unique perspective each of us has of this experience that is the "United States Naval Academy!" I realized back some 2800+ posts ago that "none of us" have all the answers....especially me....but collectively, the pieces start to fit together, and I have learned so much from everyone that has posted on here....even as contrary as it might get at times!</p>

40

<p>okay, i may be wrong, but did you (Navy2010) really graduate from the Naval Academy?</p>