<p>I see nothing wrong with Dr. Avrah's questions. Harvard and Yale are not homogeneous institutions, and the differences between them are noticeable enough to sway hundreds of students to pick one over the other every year. If you can't answer his question wholeheartedly, then stop criticizing him and saying "the two colleges are basically the same" because they are NOT. I'm a Yale EA admit and I am also looking at the same career path. I've heard Harvard grads are better recruited for management consulting firms compared to their Ivy counterparts. </p>
<p>Drummer, can you give specific reasons why political science classes as a whole at Yale are not as great? How popular is International Studies as a second major?</p>
<p>Nobody is claiming "the two colleges are basically the same," just that by Dr. Avrah's pair of narrow, one-dimensional metrics, there is no meaningful difference. There isn't. Posterx's assertion is meaningless as well.</p>
<p>Dr. Avrah, I think the statistic you are looking for is in here (from wiki):</p>
<p>The Boston Globe wrote that "if there's one school that can lay claim to educating the nation's top national leaders over the past three decades, it's Yale."</p>
<p>Yale alumni have been represented on the Democratic or Republican ticket in every U.S. Presidential election since 1972. </p>
<p>Yale-educated Presidents since the end of the Vietnam War include Gerald Ford, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, and major-party nominees during this period include John Kerry (2004), Joseph Lieberman (Vice President, 2000), and Sargent Shriver (Vice President, 1972). Other Yale alumni who made serious bids for the Presidency during this period include Howard Dean (2004), Gary Hart (1984 and 1988), Paul Tsongas (1992) and Jerry Brown (1976, 1980, 1992) and others. Yale Law alumna Hillary Rodham Clinton is considered a front runner for the 2008 Democratic Presidential nomination. Vice President Dick Cheney also attended Yale (for 3 semesters).</p>
<p>Yale has also produced an unusual number of U.S. ambassadors; at one recent point, the ambassadors to China, Russia, France, and the United Nations were all Yale alumni. Yale also produced a President of Mexico.</p>
<p>More recently, Yale has become a center for studying grand strategy, a catch-all phrase meant to encompass military history, statesmanship, leadership, and other disciplines thought useful for future American leaders. Each year the renowned professors Charles Hill, Paul Kennedy and John Lewis Gaddis teach a year-long seminar in grand strategy to a highly selective group of graduate and undergraduate students with the aim of preparing them for wielding power in government, business and public life. Students of the seminar are encouraged to network with one another and with guest speakers and participants. Grand Strategy alumni organizations have already sprung up in Washington, D.C. and New York City.</p>
<p>If you are asking with respect to politics / international relations, the Yale Model United Nations Team (MUNTY) is deemed as the best MUN team worldwide, and as an MUN freak, I cannot stress enough the excellent preparation that MUN offers for many things..IMO at least :p</p>
<p>Thank you for your answers and also thank you for your support, kyzan. I know that I should take some economics classes and I am thinking about maybe taking it as a second major. Has anyone some experiences or opinion about economics at Harvard vs. Yale? </p>
<p>I think the Master's tea and all the other events are a convincing argument, because it's not only the lectures that are important, but also the other programs and events. It seems to me that Yale is ahead of Harvard in this aspect. Doesn't Harvard have anything similar? </p>
<p>debate_addict: It might be that the Yale Model United Nations Team is the best, but look who sponsors the MUN: </p>
<p>"the annual World Model United Nations (WorldMUN) [is] a highly competitive event sponsored by Harvard University" Yale</a> Bulletin and Calendar</p>
<p>posterX: yes, could be that I was looking at wikipedia. Do you, or anybody else, know how one can qualify for this "grand strategy" program?</p>
<p>The fact that Yale is superior @ Harvard's domain highlights my point: it's the best. The YIRA is also very fascinating, and the Security Council simulations at Yale seem very innovative and interesting. I've been to Harvard Model United Nations and it was atrocious. The organization was appalling, the chairs were doing nothing to prevent alliances such as RusFed, US and Cuba - yes, it actually happened, the opening ceremony was the worst I've ever seen (the acoustics were horrible, visually it was an eye-sore). I'm sorry to be trashing HMUN but the fact that a university sponsors an event does not mean automatically that it is great. To be honest, i fell into the "It's harvard so it has to be awesome" trap myself, and expected too much from HMUN. I got nothing substantial back, except from a fun superlatives list, some facebook additions and a mediocre conference. And I was lucky - i was in a tiny committee..imagine those with 300 people in them..Don't choose the school based on who sponsors the MUNs, choose it based on the people who participate in the MUNs, that's all I am saying..</p>
<p>Harvard has the IOP...which, for all intents and purposes, is an institution integrated with a graduate school of government. While not as intimate as the Master's Teas, for someone interested in politics and government (as I am), it's like crack.</p>
<p>Also, have you considered Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs? Admittedly, Princeton wasn't high on my list of colleges, until I found out how engaging and intense it was. Since you feel that you'll be able to choose between Harvard and Yale for undergrad, why not throw Princeton into the mix?</p>
<p>I know nothing about harvard's department and i'm sure it's very good, but i have a hard time imagining that any college in the world has a more popular political science dept. or a better scene for that sort of thing (YPU is ridiculous). And if you're concerned about personal bias, i just trashed yale's math dept on another thread. I tell it like it is.</p>
<p>I am actually somewhat confused about the reputation that the YPU has on these boards (and I say that as someone who was an officer of the YPU this semester, an officer of my party next semester, and is very actively involved in it). It's a cool organization that brings in interesting guests and sometimes has very good student debates (though at other times they are lacking in quality), but I would hardly make it out to be as important as other posters are implying, however self-important some of its members may be. It's a great experience for a significant number of people (myself among them), but it's not the be-all, end-all of Yale political life, and it's certainly not that good a reason to choose Yale over Harvard. If it interests you, it's the sort of thing you should do if you come to Yale, but it shouldn't drive your decision, even as a political science major; plenty of poli sci majors don't even come near the YPU.</p>
<p>Honestly, things like major and college really don't seem to matter much in terms of jobs later on in life (at least based on my own little personal observations!). I've spent a couple summers working for Congress, and most of those politicians did not go to Yale or any other "prestigious" school. As for major, I know philosophy and art history majors who are looking at really really lucrative job prospects, and poli sci/econ majors who aren't. What really seems to matter is grades, recommendations, work experience and interviews. Go for the school and major that "seem right" -- that are the best fit. Don't try to choose your college experience based on a grand scheme of how you think you want to run your life. Believe me -- it will change. I came in to college thinking I might major in econ and go into i-banking...by the end of first semester I realized that I was MUCH more interested in the humanities in general, and am likely looking into academia for a career. I know sooo many people who have changed their majors/career goals since getting here...don't count on your staying the same, either! Just go where you'll be happy, and study what you're passionate about.</p>
<p>P.S. the YPU is amazing...it's a wonderful organization with great people, good debates and amazing guests. Definitely check us out during bulldog days!
But, as sval already said...it's not the be-all-end all of Yale political life...there are lots of volunteer and activist organizations that are pretty incredible, too!</p>
<p>Thank you for your feedback. It seems to me that most of you either say that it doesn't matter or that Yale is better in terms of politics. (Unfortunately) that is also the impression I got recently. I say unfortunately because I was pretty sure that if I get the choice between Harvard and Yale I'm going to Harvard and it seems that I have to reconsider this 'decision'. One reason is that I like Cambridge very much and I have never been to New Haven and I don't know if I will have a chance to go there before I have to make my decision (hopefully Harvard and Yale will be two of my options then.)</p>
<p>But I would like to throw in another question in the discussion: I actually heard that about 90% or so of the students that get accepted at both Harvard and Yale choose to go to Harvard in the end and that therefore the "best" students (assuming that the ones that get into both really ARE the best) end up at Harvard. Can someone tell me something about this claim? To what extent is it true?</p>
<p>And what I also would be interested in: can maybe someone tell me something about the other Ivys + Stanford in terms of political science and a career in politics? Maybe some kind of ranking or what special programs they have that speak in their favor?</p>
<p>@Mr. Pretzel: Yes, I heard some good things about Princeton and their program, I think I will have a closer look at them. Thanks for your info. </p>
<p>And just one more thing: As far as I know a lot of high ranking political advisers, also advisers of the president and former presidents, are Harvard professors; I have not heard yet of any Yale professor that was/is a 'famous' adviser. Maybe this is not the most important point in making a decision between Harvard and Yale, but at least it has some significance and it shows something about the political power of these two institutions. Can maybe someone say something about this point, or knows about famous advisers from Yale?</p>
<p>"It seems to me that most of you either say that it doesn't matter or that Yale is better in terms of politics. "</p>
<p>Don't forget that you asked this question on the Yale part of the website. Go to the Harvard forum and I suspect you will get different answers.</p>
<p>"I actually heard that about 90% or so of the students that get accepted at both Harvard and Yale choose to go to Harvard"</p>
<p>That is patently wrong. I think the actually numbers are closer to 60% Harvard and 40% Yale.</p>
<p>Mochamaven, you have a really interesting post. Just curious, but how did you manage to get a job in Congress and what do you exactly do? I was too planning to go into ibanking (at least for a couple of years to raise money) but the more I hear about it, the less I am inclined to follow up on that plan. Working for a Congressman/Senator/White House would seem so much more captivating.</p>