Pomona Admissions Dean lambastes parent message boards

<p>Lloyd Thacker's book, "College Unranked," previously published by his Education Conservancy, has just been repackaged by Harvard U. Press. We've discussed it before. It has about 2 dozen or so essays on college admissions and what is wrong with the system</p>

<p>One article, called "Sanity Check," is by Pomona's Dean Bruce Poch (don't know if he still is dean). Here is a sample paragraph, NOT referring to CC but ANOTHER college admissions message board:</p>

<p>"Worse is the 'parents only' message board...where those whose powers of discernment should be better honed add to the chat, and the parents reveal themselves too frequently, if unintentionally, as frightened - and sometimes quite clearly as manipulative - schemers living through their children at the expense of rationality and real support for their sons and daughters. It reads like a therapy group that could be called *Admissions Anonymous *. But alas, there is no therapist, just undisciplined, unmoderated chatter. A look at the timestamps on the messages reveals a lot. The postings come at all hours of the night, reflecting a sleep-deprived state. The dangerous advice found in the student section is hugely amplified in the 'parents only' section, where there is even greater presumed authoritative information. Yikes."</p>

<p>Ouch! But the gentlemen doth protest too much, methinks. Who created this situation? </p>

<p>I wonder if I would want my child's app read by someone with such utter and complete contempt for the parents. As for middle-of-the-night postings, who is to judge when any of us are awake, have free time, what time zone we are in, etc?</p>

<p>Apologies if this has been posted before, but it is the first time I have seen it.</p>

<p>PS I will admit to laughing out loud when I read this... "manipulative schemers" .... you gotta love it! Wonder if he has kids?</p>

<p>let's see today we have been referred to as</p>

<p>elitist</p>

<p>ne'er-do-wells and other assorted or admitted heathens (as I may resemble this remark)</p>

<p>and now</p>

<p>manipulative schemers</p>

<p>gotta love life on CC :D</p>

<p>There are certainly those manipulative scheming parents out there in the big world (see Blair Hornstine's father), but I haven't seen them here. I think of the parents' board as a "reality check" to those parents who wonder if they are going over to the dark side.</p>

<p>CC must have better moderators than the Brand X he was talking about. ;)</p>

<p>Then again a Dean at Pomona may not have much appreciation for the vagaries of admissions at more selective institutions of higher learning. Pomona may be a fine school, but it is clearly not too selective.</p>

<p>It seems a bit unwise for the Dean of a rather expensive LAC to so blatantly bite the hands that feed him.</p>

<p>It is that kind of attitude toward parents that really turns me off at any educational institution. It reminds me of certain teachers who do not welcome parents, seem aghast if you may want to have a conference to work together to help the child (as a team) and other attitudes of that nature. Putting down parents for having a "support group" and sharing with others about this complicated process is a real turn off for me. The idea of parents being involved, interested, or being resourceful as being a negative thing does bother me. I am an educator myself, have been a teacher and have always considered parents as part of the "team". Parents are less so at the college level but certainly very much so at the admissions process level. Putting down involved parents who choose to be informed, who choose to discuss issues that surround teens, in this case, college admissions, is not something I admire in an educational institution. While there are extreme parents out there, that's not the essence of the majority of posters and types of posts on a forum such as this. College admissions is an overwhelming process for parents and students. To have a resource like this to learn more and to share is a positive thing, in my book. It's a jungle out there and if boards like this help parents to navigate through it, so be it. Attitudes such as the one in that excerpt really do not say much about viewing interested parents in what COULD be a helpful and positive light. Education of today's young people should be a team effort. Colleges ought to embrace parents, not shun them. I'm not talking of the extreme examples but merely the CC types who take an active interest in their childrens' lives and education. </p>

<p>EDad, Pomona actually is a more selective school. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Yes it is. I was not at all familiar and had the wrong data.</p>

<p>Pomona in fact has invested a huge amount of effort in reaching its current degree of selectivity--which translates to a lot more angst on the part of families whose kids apply there. So it looks like the dean does not like the byproduct of Pomona's campaign to rank higher on USN&WR. Sounds like Rachel Toor redux to me.</p>

<p>I think admissions deans should be limited to one four year term of service. These people sometimes let their power go to their heads. </p>

<p><it seems="" a="" bit="" unwise="" for="" the="" dean="" of="" rather="" expensive="" lac="" to="" so="" blatantly="" bite="" hands="" that="" feed="" him.=""></it></p>

<p>No kidding.</p>

<p>Pomona accepted just 20% of the kids who applied last year, so it's <em>very</em> selective. </p>

<p>A check of Pomona's web site reveals that Poch is indeed still the Dean of Admissions.</p>

<p>I haven't read the book, so I probably shouldn't comment, but it seems to me that admissions officers, who set the rules, shouldn't be throwing stones at parents who are trying to figure out what the rules are.</p>

<p>Maybe it's time we formed a Parent's Admission Committee, and start an e-mail campaign aimed at Bruce "Just who does he think He Is?" Poch. Let him know that we're voting with our wallets, and will make sure that none of our remaining progeny will apply to Pomona. Oh, yeah, and send him their SAT/ACT scores also.</p>

<p>So there.</p>

<p>another tidbit about Pomona that the Dean will not admit to: thier high regard for demonstrated interest, particularly if you have a Calif zip code. He/they expect that you visit.....and it's a negative check box if you don't.....</p>

<p>but, then again, maybe not -- perhaps I'm "undisciplined" and full of "unmoderated chatter"</p>

<p>Yes, I'm sure he doesn't want a large group of informed parents helping their kids figure out the vagaries of the admissions process....</p>

<p>"Sleep-deprived manipulative schemer"? Yep, that's me. </p>

<p>Insomniacs are us... What else would I do at 4 AM? Wake my husband and see if he wants to talk? Right.</p>

<p>A typically narrow American view. Did it occur to Poch that a few dozen CC posters live abroad? My timezone nearly a full day ahead of the east coast.</p>

<p>Knock knock Pomona. You might want to get a brighter Dean.</p>

<p>Lol, Thacker must bring the worst out of people. He even earned the endorsement of Mister Education himself: </p>

<p>
[quote]
If I have any complaint about "College Unranked," it is that there is not enough Thacker in it. He has an unusual perspective, an irresistible writing style and a passion to help students. I hope he is working on another book that tells us more of his story, and what he has discovered. dixit Jay Matthews at
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/13/AR2005091300618%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/13/AR2005091300618&lt;/a>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The problem is that there is a huge chasm between merely reporting problem and offering solutions. While the most mediocre lab technician could positively identify cancerous cells, he still could not be able to offer a cure. For all its glib and noise, the EC is short on ideas, and so is its founder and self-anointed savior of higher education. </p>

<p>After two years of self-promotion, Thacker's site is still void of any solutions, except for gross generalizations. For what it is worth, there are many more -and much better- tips on the NACAC site. As far as reaching conclusions, there are more good ideas posted in a week at CC than on the entire site of Thacker. </p>

<p>Do we really expect the admission experts quoted in the book to reveal the secrets of admissions or admit the role of the colleges in the development of some of the alarming by-products? Bruce Poch loves to shock his audience and has peppered the world wide web with vivid quotations. That is why he is one of the favorite of the tabloid-education reporters. </p>

<p>It would have been nice to see Thacker frame the debate a lot better ... but for that he would have to understand the real issues. A high school counselor who made a mess of his own college choices and who seems to believe that polling the admissions directors is a good source for quick fixes does not strike me as a savior or a visionary. </p>

<p>What do they say about fame and fifteen minutes?</p>

<p>We probably hit them on a bad day, but we saw no more prestige-driven, score-driven, Williams-wannabes in an admissions than we did in Poch's office. Pomona looked better and better the further we got away from the admissions building (though the air-head of a tour guide didn't help matters.)</p>

<p>Poch doesn't like it because he feels threatened (and some folks might just figure out that the jig is up.) Perhaps he'd like to tell us how, in one of the most diverse states in the country, they end up with a student body that is less than 7% Latino and 6% African-American. (Good school - I just think he is self-serving in the extreme.)</p>

<p>I'm gonna wait til 3 am to post my real comments... stay tuned.</p>

<p>Argh! Now I won't be able to go to sleep!</p>