Pomona vs Tufts

<p>Hi all! I've successfully narrowed down my list to these two schools. As a recruited athlete, I will be applying ED to one of these schools in October. I've been told by both coaches that they would support my application and that I would most likely be a successful applicant. However, I am really having a hard time choosing. </p>

<p>I've visited both schools recently, and I loved them both. While Pomona and Tufts certainly carry different vibes, I think I would be comfortable at either school. I plan to major in neuroscience, biopsychology, or mathematics. I would like to say I plan on going to med school. </p>

<p>At Tufts, I love the fact that Boston is a 10 minute subway ride from campus. I think living by Boston would give me wonderful opportunities when looking for internships. I also love the balance between liberal arts college and small research university at Tufts. I think this unique balance gives me more of a safety net in case I change my major in college. The campus is beautiful and the people seemed friendly. </p>

<p>The problem is that I also love Pomona. I have dreamed about going to Pomona since I was a freshman in high school. For my areas of study, Pomona seems like a great fit. I also really like the idea of the consortium and being able to branch out and try other classes. The outdoor athletic facilities at Pomona are awesome, especially the pool. I am from the east coast, so I also need to tale travel into consideration (although it is not a monetary problem). </p>

<p>As you can see, I'm pretty confused. I've really liked both schools and I think that I would be fine at either. I am not much of the party type, but I want a student body that knows when to leave the library. Is there enough going on at Pomona's campus to make up for it's slight isolation? </p>

<p>Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!</p>

<p>Please help! Any advice
Would be awesome!</p>

<p>Pomona is not isolated. It’s in the center of a metropolitan area with over 18 million people, and most people here go to Los Angeles very often. Surrounding cities like Ontario, Pomona, and Rancho Cucamonga are only 5-15 minutes away and have close to, if not more, than 100K people each. It’s not as close as Tufts is to the big city life, but the amount of time that you have to explore vibrant city life will be the same for both schools, and they’ll both give it to you.</p>

<p>Pomona is going to be more selective this year because they overenrolled the first year class by 50 students, so just keep that in mind. They will either admit more through ED or less overall than last year (which had an admission rate of 12%).</p>

<p>My opinion is that Pomona is better in those disciplines than Tufts is. It’s a top science PhD producer and medical school producer (Pomona is grade inflated too so that helps for medical school). If you are interested in a specific sort of research like cancer research, Tufts might be better as a research university since it will have a lot of different researchers, but if you’re open minded about exploring science research Pomona sponsors nearly 300 students each summer for research, either on campus or elsewhere.</p>

<p>Medical school is really about your own grades than the institution you go to, and you want to be at a place where you fit in better and are happier. I’m not sure what Tufts student body is like, but Pomona has a distinct Californian vibe with diversity in just about every aspect save politics (it is very resoundingly liberal). </p>

<p>I’m not going to argue about which school is better for you because that really depends on your personal preferences. Here are some things about Pomona which might help you in evaluating your choices, as it seems you’re more familiar with Tufts than with Pomona.</p>

<p>1) Pomona’s campus is really beautiful as well, in a very different style from Tufts. It’s California style (red roof/white cement walls) with the foliage you’d see in an East Coast College. If that’s something that’s important to you, both schools will give it.
2) Tufts may offer a liberal arts education, but Pomona is resoundingly a liberal arts college with tight-knit professors and resources that exist exclusively for the undergraduates. There are no graduate students here. Also, despite Tufts having nearly 7x as many students, Pomona’s endowment is almost 40% larger. That means you’re likely to get better financial aid and more money for your own ideas than Tufts is likely to give you. The Claremont Consortium gives you the same access to classes that attending a university like Tufts would give you.
3) Pomona students are likely to stay in California after graduating, while most of Tuft’s alumni network is on the East Coast.</p>

<p>Thank you very much for the advice, nostalgicwisdom! That helps a lot. I will be taking recruit trips to both schools next month, so I think that after I get a feel of the community and the team I should have a better idea. Thanks again!!</p>

<p>Any other opinions would also be great!</p>

<p>You’re a swimmer. Don’t discount the joy of swimming outdoors all year. I know the swim team for CMS is always one of the top teams nationally. I don’t know as much about Pomona/Pitzer being a Stag mom. :)</p>

<p>Thank you, SpiritManager. Very true. Not many places can beat SoCal being a swimmer :). </p>

<p>Any other opinions would be awesome!!! </p>

<p>OP, congratulations on having these kinds of skills and having worked hard in high school. I looked at both these schools for my D, who also has interests in neuroscience and other things. Our search was particularly geared toward the science with a great deal of skepticism about the “traditional psychology” element of this new field. In simple terms, I was tasked with finding departments in which the natural sciences were more important than the psychology.</p>

<p>Tufts’ biopsychology and neuroscience are excellent, broad, and deep. One of the stars of the Tufts faculty is a researcher named Maryanne Wolf who doesn’t even reside in the neuroscience department. Her ground-breaking work on reading and the brain has fired the imaginations of people in many other disciplines, including mine. Since 1999 she has published 33 articles on reading and the brain, but she’s famous for a popular-ish book called Proust and the Squid: the Story and the Science of the Reading Brain. She’s also head of the Center for Reading and Language Research at Tufts. Prof. Wolf actually resides in the Child Development department at Tufts, just to give you some idea of how deep the neuroscience work at Tufts goes. And any researcher who allows herself to be photographed reading the manuscript poems of Emily Dickinson gets extra points from me:</p>

<p><a href=“http://ase.tufts.edu/crlr/”>http://ase.tufts.edu/crlr/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There are over thirty members of the neuroscience faculty at Tufts reflective of the interdisciplinary nature of biopsychology: geneticists, biochemists, endocrinologists, cell and molecular biologists, zoologists, neuroscientists, pharmacologists, etc. There also the department’s connection with the graduate school program and Tufts hospital. The opportunities seem endless when you also consider that you’re in Boston’s metro area, with all its resources for study, research, and internships.</p>

<p>However, biopsychology itself, the undergraduate major, is less impressive. You are required to take 5 courses each in biology and psychology, which sounds more like a curriculum designed to satisfy interdepartmental politics than educate majors. There are however a half dozen biology profs interested in behavior, neurobiology, and endocrinology, and the psychology department offers even more investment in biopsychology, with perhaps a dozen professors whose primary interest appears to be cognitive science.</p>

<p>One element missing from the undergrad biopsychology education is, it appears, any requirements in chemistry, evolutionary biology, calculus, and physics. Students without such preparation might have a hard time meeting the expectations of grad neuroscience programs. A second element missing from this undergraduate program is much interest in related fields such as artificial intelligence, computers, linguistics, and philosophy. It has a makeshift character, at least on paper. Conclusion: Tufts is a great place to get a grad degree in this field, and its undergrad has a kind of slapped together appearance that is not uncommon in undergrad cognitive science. However, there are so many researchers, particularly in psychology (and neuroscience, child development, etc.), that you can probably get a pretty darn good education just by showing a modicum of initiative outside the classroom.</p>

<p>Pomona is a small liberal arts college offering an u/g degree in neuroscience but pulling on the resources of four other colleges and a grad school to get the job done. The course requirements for a neuroscience major at Pomona are significantly more sophisticated and extensive than those at Tufts. There are 48 credit hours required at Pomona and only 30 at Tufts. Important to this difference in credit hours are the requirements in chemistry, evolutionary biology, calculus, and physics that Tufts doesn’t have. This credit load may be a problem for those who want to double-major at Pomona, of course, and a god-send for those at Tufts. However, if one is interested in something other than a “neuroscience lite” major, the choice is obvious: Pomona. Having figured this out, I then called up the faculty in neuroscience at Pomona and asked what the publication activity of its faculty was like, how many grants they were pulling down, what the equipment of their labs was like, even if service contracts allowed for the prompt repair of equipment. Yeah, I was pushing the limits of parental information gathering, perhaps, but what I found were a couple of really helpful faculty members who, during their summers, were willing to provide me with lists of faculty publications, student internships and publications, numbers of students in PhD programs, as well as detailed descriptions of laboratory size and equipment. I was surprised by their generosity and thought it a good sign of how much they care about their students’ education. The neuro majors were getting as much local and national research opps and internships as they could wish for. The facilities reported at the Keck Science Center Pomona shares with the consortium are impressive. </p>

<p>If I were more interested in the science end of brain studies, based on what I researched I would definitely choose pomona over tufts. Having said this, I also didn’t see at Pomona the departmental intersection with philosophy, linguistics, AI, and compsci. I didn’t look any further for it because with 48 cr. hours in science and math, it’s perhaps too much to ask for the dept to also field interdepartmental courses. However, it is possible perhaps to find such courses elsewhere at Pomona or in the consortium. Claremont McKenna and the consortium’s Keck Science Dept. also has neuroscience, and its curriculum includes compsci and philosophy courses as electives. Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Make sure to take into account how good you will be compared to the other swimmers at Ponoma, it might be better to be a bigger fish and have a bigger role on the swim team.</p>

<p>Pomona</p>

<p>In my opinion, Pomona’s academics are superior to Tufts’. Tufts has a lot of strong applicants, but pretty much none of their academic programs are ranked highly. So there is a strong disconnect between the quality of student and the quality of the education.</p>

<p>yes, you can certainly check out Pomona’s swimmers times (and their years in school) and compare the times to yours. </p>

<p>And frankly, if I have to choose between a school with strong academics and relatively weak students (like most of, say, the Big Ten, Pac-12 and ACC) and a school with strong students and relatively weak academics… or at least academics that do not match up with the level of the students… I’ll take the former every time.</p>

<p>Why?</p>

<p>Because the quality of education <em>is why students attend</em>. Or why they should.</p>

<p>So to me, Tufts is vastly and almost irretrievably overrated by US News, because their academics (relatively) suck.</p>

<p>wow, @prezbucky, that’s quite an indictment of Tufts’ educational ability and an awful lot to swallow without any evidence from you.</p>

<p>Shall I post the accolades of the UW/UC/UM/UVA (etc) faculty?</p>

<p>To save us all some time, just take my word for it: Tufts has few or no Nobel Prize to its credit, is unheard of on the international stage… and the deans all converse with one another. </p>

<p>So:</p>

<p>1) Deans know who the top professors are.
2) National and international award results tell us who, and which schools, are gifting the world with new, profound information.
3) The schools honored by such cognological exploration are generally world-renowned research institutions.

  • Tufts is not one of them. They teach other people’s stuff, basically.</p>

<p>If Ponoma is your top choice, which from the tone of your post it is, then apply there.</p>

<p>But I wouldn’t discount Tufts in any way and I disagree with @prezbucky‌ on that account. It is well known in the northeast as a quality institution, and has a top international relations program (Fletcher) that always gets mentioned along with schools like JHU and Georgetown. The person who interviewed me when I applied, actually was part of the neuroscience and psychology programs at Tufts, for both her undergrad and graduate levels. If you PM me, I am sure she would be more than happy to answer any questions you have.</p>

<p>–To save us all some time, just take my word for it-- umm, no.</p>

<p>–Tufts has few or no Nobel Prize to its credit-- That could say more about the kinds and numbers of students Tufts admits than the quality of its education. If it is the absence of Nobel faculty members you’re talking about at Tufts, their absence could mean that the administration has not allowed alumni to spend their money bringing Laureates to campus (just so the school can say they have a Laureate or three) and instead invest money in labs and undergraduate education. </p>

<p>–unheard of on the international stage-- Well, in the most recent Times rankings of the Top 400, Tulane comes in 80th, ahead of Rochester, Case Western, UVA, Notre Dame, Dartmouth, Trinity College Dublin, etc. Many of the schools in front of it are not what an American would think of as Tufts’ competition: Purdue, Ohio State, BU, PSU, Illinois, McGill. Just saying that Tufts has an international reputation that probably isn’t as high in the Times rankings as it should be. It has far fewer graduates to spread its reputation than many other schools with which it competes.</p>

<p>1) I don’t know what this means or in what context I’m to understand it.
2) Awards tell us relatively little. Grants and publications in reputable journals tell us a good deal more about the quality of faculty research and their preparation as educators. I see no evidence in your post that Tufts professors have any problem getting grants or that they have any trouble getting their research published in reputable journals.
3) I think you covered this above.</p>

<p>Every good teacher teaches everyone else’s stuff because they are actively pursuing research. Professors who teach their own stuff to the exclusion of other researchers’ work are to be avoided. One purpose of research is to enable professors to bring not only their own new ideas into the classroom but, more importantly, the new ideas of many other researchers with whom they agree and disagree. Take for instance Wolf’s book on reading and the brain. It is full of recognition of the work of other researchers in the field of reading and the brain because people need to be made aware of their work and her work has no credibility if she doesn’t admit that she speaks from atop the shoulders of giants.</p>

<p>You have a skewed idea of what professors are supposed to be doing and what they should be concerned about. </p>

<p>You did nothing to mitigate Tufts’ academic relative lowness, except to complain about a bunch of schools being ranked ahead of Tufts in the Times rankings. </p>

<p>what could that possibly mean, “academic relative lowness”? I think this dialogue is stealing energy from the OP’s post. If you’re interested, we can pursue this pm.</p>