<p>I want my D to come out of college as an intellectually alive, confident, critical thinker with a basic understaning of herself and a sense of the world around her. A person with these skills will have a rewarding life and will always figure out how to make a decent, if not superlative, living. </p>
<p>To the list of plumbers, etc-- add selling houses! Real Estate can be very lucrative (and in the state of Calif you don't even need college to do it!) My Brown education is handy anyhow, because I am confident, I think outside the box, and I am a great problem-solver-- all qualities that were inculcated at my alma mater (and together about 90% of doing well in Real Estate.) </p>
<p>A big part of success in any field is being optimistic and not letting a setback take you out of the game. Many people want rigorous pre-professional programs to "guarantee" them a good job, but in fact schools with very liberal programs (like Brown) do an excellent job of teaching you how to make decisions in the "void" (of no requirements,) how to figure things out on your own, and how to regroup from a bad decision and move forward. IMHO, if a Brown grad got outsourced, he or she might have an easier time bouncing back than most people... Also, these liberal College environments foster an entrepreneurial spirit-- because when nobody tells you what to do in college, you get sort of addicted to running your own show and want to keep on being your own boss.</p>
<p>SBmom, I of course can not take away from the importance of critical thinking. I chose a non trade undergrad education for just that reason. In Canada, where I began college, early professional focus is the norm. However, readings in an economic class I'm currently taking, looking at the new economy, suggests that for my peers to have success and stability, we better also study a science. We better have tangible, quantative skills. Real estate is an interesting example. Because of technology, there will be many fewer real estate agents in the future and their commissions will be greatly reduced. We had a speaker on this very topic. Homes and commercial buildings are now being shown very effectively on the net. Prices are becoming more efficient where technology is employed to sell or lease real estate. It is akin to ebay having made the price of many things more efficient. The upshot for my peers is having high demand knowledge that technology can't take away from. Knwledge that will make us participants in the next wave.</p>
<p>and that didn't include me working 12 hours a day and leaving them with the nanny.</p>
<p>WHAT?? I'll forgive this one instance, Carolyn, on the grounds that you have been media-pummelled by moral majority "good people" junk. But crikey! </p>
<p>Let's not divide the world into black and white, good mommy, bad mommy. Let's allow people the freedom to make different decisions about their family life without those blanket judgements.</p>
<p>I put in a few twelve hour days and raised two wonderful boys with the help of some terriffic nannies--and I'm a 'good' person, thank for asking.</p>
<p>To Northstarmom: By "social pressure" I mean the pressure that comes from PEERS not parents. My kids couldn't care less what I think - but they are influenced by what they see their peers doing. If some kid makes a derogatory or dismissive comment about some particular college, that can be the death knell. On the other hand - it can lead to some odd choices. At least two of the colleges on my son's list were there because his friends were also applying -- that's fine for safeties, but it's not so good when the schools are reaches.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4 wrote:
[quote]
If Ivy grads have a problem making ends meet, it is not hard to see why so many families who don't even have college degrees are having a difficult time paying the bills.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think that kind of misses the point. My son wasn't doing particularly well in college, so he quit after his sophomore year to "find himself" and did so (fortunately) in the very first job he picked up after that - now, 15 months later, he has a job he loves, a steady paycheck, health insurance, and is living entirely on his own. In his job, he is interviewing, hiring and firing many college graduates - and he's only 21. The point is simply that on-the-job experience ultimately counts for more than the degree. Of course my son intends to go back to school and get his degree eventually - but his employment prospects will be better because he now has experience and connections through the current job. </p>
<p>The problem isn't with the college - or choice of college -- its with the expectation that 4 years of classroom learning on a campus isolated from most real world concerns is going to be the basis for employment. Bottom line - on-the-job experience and work ethic is what gets people employed, and helps them stay employed. The work ethic part has absolutely nothing to do with what school the person attended. A degree from a prestigious college gives someone a competitive edge over a degree from a less prestigious college, if other qualities are equal -- as when two recent grads with no significant experience are competing for their first job. But in a tight employment market, jobs go to the people with the proven work experience.</p>
<p>I don't mean to put down the families who are having trouble. It's not that easy, because as noted -- it IS a tight job market. I'm just saying that the college degree is not necessarily the determinative fact in whether someone is able to maintain gainful employment.</p>
<p>Calmom, the influence of peers varies a lot from one kid to the next. Neither of my kids put any schools in their lists because peers were applying or expressed positive or negative things about any school. Their lists were far more determined by, um, me, than by anyone else; and they had their own opinions based on observation and exprerience. (Neither applied to a legacy either.)</p>
<p>BTW/ I agree very much with your implication that the college degree is not usually the derminative factor in career especially after the first job. But it can matter at various points and perhaps in particular in the first job. That said, as I noted earlier it's the range of job-relevant skills that matter most, and those aren't necessarily the type learned in the classroom.</p>
<p>I was thinking the same thing, if my daughter had put a school on her list just because a friend did, I would have thought that she wasn't at the maturity level to benefit from college. Most of the kids in her class were looking at either Ca schools specifically the Claremont schools, or they were looking at schools like UPenn , Chicago and Bryn Mawr.
She liked Evergreen quite a bit when her class went on a tour and they all looked at her like she was crazy! I think attending a school where she didn't really fit in for high school, made it even more special when she found a college where she did.</p>
<p>Getting into a good college gives you a better chance of getting the job you want. So, it is definitely advantageous. However, you may still be as successful as those who attended Ivies, but you must work much harder to get a position parallel to Ivy graduates.</p>
<p>Cheers - didn't mean to upset anyone --- please don't be offended! My point was MY original career did not allow me the time to be the type of parent I wanted to be, not that staying at home with the kids was equal to being a good person. Running my own business, I have certainly put in my share of twelve hour days, but I have flexibility to be with them more often. Everyone must make their own choices, obviously.</p>
<p>Canuck - I'm curious - since you come from a family of three generations of farmers why wouldn't you consider that occupation?</p>
<p>C; Hope you didn't mean to equate nanny with 'bad' mommy or 'bad' children. I have had my own business since 1986 and have employed some outstanding nannies...most of whom are still close to our family.</p>
<p>I don't believe your statement holds true but for the first few years out of school. After that, the market value of your degree diminishes and the value of your latest accomplishment increases in many fields. Of course, the personal value of your degree is subjective. </p>
<p>It seems like the key to success for those who graduate from top schools is to strike while the iron is hot.....maximize your opportunities right out of school and climb as fast as you can. As the years pass the name on the degree means less and less.</p>