Post Military MBA

Graduate School Business School - MBA
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<p>Hello All,</p>

<p>I've combed the forums a little to try to find the answer to my question, but it seems I'm in a fairly unique situation.</p>

<p>I am on my way to transitioning out of the US Navy after 8 years of active duty enlisted service. While serving my time, I held numerous supervisory roles (Instructor, Assistant Work Center Supervisor, Work Center Supervisor, Maintenance Group Supervisor/Assistant Leading Petty Officer, Training Manager, Quality Assurance Supervisor, Leading Petty Officer, in that order). I come from the Nuclear Propulsion Program, which from what I've been told/heard/interaction with the "civilian realm" is a highly revered program to come from. Also, I have earned my B.S. in Applied Science and Technologies in Nuclear Engineering Technologies from Thomas Edison State College, a regionally accredited distance learning college in Trenton, NJ, with a GPA of 3.80. </p>

<p>Upon discharge from the Navy, I want to go to either UT Austin or SMU Dallas to earn my MBA. I have been debating on whether I want to start my career as soon as I get out or participate in their full-time programs vice their executive programs. The problem arises when acceptance into McCombs EMBA program is contingent upon full-time employment.</p>

<p>Here is where the question comes in... Which program is more suited for my situation? I will be 29 upon discharge from the USN, and would like to get started on my career and work on my graduate degree concurrently in order to "accelerate my life" (sorry for the cliche, post navy guys will know what I'm talking about). </p>

<p>If I opt for the full time option, I will most likely be stuck getting a job as a bartender/bouncer/hotel clerk or floor manager in order to supplement my income. On the flip side of the coin, if I get a career and then submit my application to the aforementioned schools, I'm assuming I have a high chance of being rejected. </p>

<p>I guess I'm looking for some insight on the best way to handle this situation with my goals in mind. The intention of earning an MBA is to diversify myself by delving into both business and engineering backgrounds, and to make myself eligible to become upper management (probably in some engineering related job).</p>

<p>Any and all logical thoughts are welcome.</p>

<p>V/R,</p>

<p>Kyle</p>

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<p>Oh, and I'll be being discharged as an E-6 and as a "Certified Manager" and a "Certified Quality Manager" if that helps at all...</p>

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<p>Can ANYONE provide some insight here?</p>

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<p>Apply for either the full-time or part-time MBA programs at SMU or UT. Despite the fact that you've been in the Navy for ~8 years, I'm not sure that billet of LPO is qualifying experience for the executive programs.
And you're right -- a full-time job as a bartender/bouncer/hotel clerk does not exactly fit the criteria for the kind of substantive employment that adcoms for part-time MBA programs look for; you'll be better off getting a job that carries some more weight.</p>

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<p>You will learn more in a full-time program and will be provided more opportunities in the full-time program.</p>

<p>Aside from a handful of companies (ie Google, Cisco, Apple), industry jobs are the least coveted MBA jobs and if your intention is to become an executive at an engineering firm, then you should be able to do so from either school.</p>

<p>UT-Austin will give you more opportunities to land highly coveted jobs such as strategy consulting (but SMU will provide you with some too..just don't expect McKinsey, BCG, or Bain). Also, if you are willing to live anywhere, then UT-Austin will provide you with the most opportunities outside of Texas (SMU is particularly strong in DFW).</p>

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<p>BTW, obviously you will want to make your experience look as positive and progressively difficult/important as possible. I would even locate resumes of current students and would taylor mine to look similar in format.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And you're right -- a full-time job as a bartender/bouncer/hotel clerk does not exactly fit the criteria for the kind of substantive employment that adcoms for part-time MBA programs look for; you'll be better off getting a job that carries some more weight.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah. I don't know the rules regarding giving notice of such jobs, but I can't imagine what the point would be of telling them that you are working as a bouncer. BTW, did you mean you would need to do this while in the full-time program or simply before you started school? I would strongly encourage you not to work during the full-time program, particularly in the first semester.</p>

<p>If you are simply looking at programs in the state of Texas then you should also consider the full time programs at:</p>

<p>Rice, Texas A&M and possibly even TCU or UT-Dallas (not to be confused with UT-Austin's Dallas program).</p>

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<p>Very good feedback guys!</p>

<p>I guess I was unclear in my intent... If I decided to go for the EMBA option, I would pursue a more career oriented occupation in opposed to one of the measly side jobs that I mentioned earlier. The only problem I see with that is, there is no guarantee that I'll get into the EMBA program. Admission into that program requires that I have a full time job already, and applications will not be considered until full time status is achieved.</p>

<p>If, however, I opted for the full-time option, I would have to get some insignificant side job (bouncer, hotel clerk, bartender, coffee shop worker, etc.) just to make some extra cash while not getting absorbed and distracted from school. </p>

<p>Can you enlighten me on how to exist in today's society without having some sort of job? Is the full time program really that intensive that I can't work on the side while achieving good grades?</p>

<p>Regarding my military experience, I've been communicating with UT's admissions staff, and they said that they often consider enlisted resumes as career experience. Whether my situation would warrant that consideration I'm not sure, but I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't as I have achieved the highest level of work a non-CPO can achieve in the nuclear field. None the less, as not to sound on the defensive, I will keep that in mind in weighing my decision of which program to go with.</p>

<p>As far as which colleges I should apply to, would it behoove me to choose 4-5 MBA programs to apply for? How many does one normally apply for if he's looking to stay in a specific area (i.e. TX)? My priority is the following: UT, SMU, A&M, UT-Dallas, TCU, Texas Tech. Of course, the private schools would have to be given careful consideration if they weren't my only option as they tend to be more expensive (Public School is essentially free to me being prior military)</p>

<p>Thanks for the help guys; I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>BTW, I am going to spend the next year preparing for the GMAT in an attempt to earn a > 700 score. I don't know how difficult it will be, but I'm willing to take it several times in order to get my highest score.</p>

<p>On a note for recommendation letters, I will be able to get a wealth of letters from high ranking officers that I've worked for... For ease of delivery, would it be suitable for each of those officers to issue me the letter, and for me to send them copies? I don't know how tolerant a commander or captain will be in regards to sending out 5 copies of a recommendation letter (and that's only if I get accepted on the first round of applications... If I have to apply again then the number will be greater).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Can you enlighten me on how to exist in today's society without having some sort of job?

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</p>

<p>Just take out loans. It would of course also be nice to have a little extra money to help support/pamper yourself. Obviously, if you have a family to support this can be more difficult.</p>

<p>
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? Is the full time program really that intensive that I can't work on the side while achieving good grades?

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</p>

<p>Short answer: YES. </p>

<p>It's as intensive as you want it to be, but will require a ton of work to make high grades. Aside from the coursework, MBA programs involve a lot of other extracurricular and networking activities which can take up a significant amount of time. You may not be required to be involved in these activities but you could be short-changing yourself by not being involved. Also, the first semester could prove to be so difficult that you could struggle to participate in extra-curricular events, much less have a 2nd job. </p>

<p>In later semesters you could have a side-job/internship, but a bouncer job wouldn't help further your career at all and its pay would be so minimal compared to what you would make upon graduation that it wouldn't be worth your time (especially since it could take away from your MBA experience).</p>

<p>BTW, I wouldn't disqualify a private school just because it has a higher tuition. Those schools give out more scholarships and can end up being cheaper than the public alternatives.</p>

<p>You shouldn't apply to Texas Tech unless it is as a last resort and you don't feel you will get into the other schools.</p>

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<p>IMO, unless you are going to attend a very top program, minimizing loans is important. I would look for an employer that would pay for the part time program. Maybe you could find a job at one of the schools itself.</p>

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<p>Okay, so it seems that picking up a job as a bouncer or something isn't really conducive to my career. It probably even has crappy hours that would cause me to miss out on studying or study sessions/group project attendance. That makes sense, but how much of that matters once I transfer to the job market? I can see the importance of getting a job that would permit minimal hours per week (say 15-20 hours/week), but once I graduate, will my employer be reviewing my resume and find this as a speed bump? I'm in the process of forming a fairly stellar resume with all of my feats that I've accomplished while in the military, but will getting a non-business/career related part time job mar that? </p>

<p>I thought that it was fairly common for college students to get some insignificant job that they're just doing to get some spending money and simply subsist on their own. If I really must get a job, are there jobs that are more preferable to have (from a resume standpoint) than others? I know the college offers jobs as teachers assistants? Would that be more in the direction that I should go? Do internships offer some sort of pay? I have been told from graduates in the field that business internships are so coveted that they don't pay you because they don't have to. Engineering internships, on the other hand, are more willing to cut you a check. This is all just coming from word of mouth; I really have no idea.</p>

<p>As far as finding a job that pays for the part-time MBA's, this is where my original problem comes in... In order to be eligible for the part-time or EMBAs, I have to have secured a full time job for the colleges to even process my resume (or at least UT... Maybe I should look into SMU, UT-Dallas, and A&M's programs). With that said, it seems to me that I would be taking a huge leap of faith by securing a job in Austin, Dallas, or Bryan and just "hope" to get into the cognizant college. Am I overlooking something here? I just find it really difficult to get a career started in Austin (for instance) just to find out that I can't get into McCombs part time/EMBA programs.</p>

<p>I'm fairly ignorant on the topic of scholarships... Are there a lot of scholarships out there that put out money to aid in the student's way of life? I guess what I'm asking, if I've got all of my school tuition and living expenses in check, can I find a scholarship that will help buy the groceries?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I can see the importance of getting a job that would permit minimal hours per week (say 15-20 hours/week),

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<p>Once you get into the groove of school (and survive a semester with decent grades) I would pursue paid internships while in school. This is "possible" in both Dallas and Austin (depending on where you go). However, I don't see the importance of getting a job. You should be getting paid around $50 an hour upon graduation (based on a 40 hour work week..of course, most MBA jobs require far more hours), with the potential for far more. What will you be getting as a bouncer? It's really quite a measily amount. You should be enjoying your 2 years at school and should focus your energy on making yourself as marketable as possible.</p>

<p>
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but will getting a non-business/career related part time job mar that?

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<p>Why would that be on your resume?</p>

<p>
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I thought that it was fairly common for college students to get some insignificant job that they're just doing to get some spending money and simply subsist on their own.

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</p>

<p>Not so common for MBA students that will be banking upon graduation. MBA students in certain areas tend to work internships during their second year (example: those pursuing real estate MBAs), but I don't know of any that took a bouncer job. I have a buddy that worked as a bouncer while in medical school. However, he was doing a year of research at the time, and that required very little time (compared to medical school) and he was mainly bouncing for fun/women.</p>

<p>BTW, perhaps I'm not the best person to comment on part-time programs as I am not a big fan of them. On avg, the upside for a full-time MBA is much greater. However, that's dependent on the student having the desire and the ability to secure a top job.</p>

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<p>Alright Alright... You win VectorWega! No bouncer job :D.... I can see that you're not a fan of part time jobs, but I really like your insight. I think I've started to boil my choices down to this...</p>

<p>Apply for full time programs at a handful of the aforementioned universities. If I don't get accepted, I'll use the head-hunters/recruiters to find a job in the Dallas/Austin area and keep trying for the EMBA. </p>

<p>Maybe we could chat via email some time... You've got some really good ideas.</p>

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<p>I like to add a few points. I would definately consider seeking a full time civilian job prior jumping right into the MBA plan. Not sure about what Texas has to offer, but I know of a few companies with major defense contracts who offer a substantial preference to veterans, especially ones with a technical backround and a degree (Lockheed Martin, Boeing). I can understand your desire to live/work in that geographic area, but many more options will open for you if you expand your limits. I think with a couple of years of industry(civilian) experience, you would greatly increase the chance of acceptance at better MBA programs and would be more marketable afterwords. Some employers will place great value on your military backround (enlisted or otherwise) and others may not. I wish that both adcoms and companies had greater knowledge of the enlisted side of the military but unfortunately most do not. The general population seems to look at officers in a completely different light and have very little knowledge of how much leadership senior enlisted members display. In recent years, I have come to wonder exactly what officers do all day. Seems to me that most of their day is spent taking credit for the work of Staff Non-Commissioned Officers. Anyway, if you want to discuss, feel free to e-mail me at <a href="mailto:marine1391@hotmail.com">marine1391@hotmail.com</a></p>

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<p>You can send me a msg on here if you ever need anything.</p>

<p>BTW, I know that Lockheed Martin pays for a significant number of employees' educations at the executive/part-time program at SMU. At one time, I believe they would even bring the professors to Lockheed because the number of students was so significant.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The general population seems to look at officers in a completely different light and have very little knowledge of how much leadership senior enlisted members display. In recent years, I have come to wonder exactly what officers do all day. Seems to me that most of their day is spent taking credit for the work of Staff Non-Commissioned Officers.

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Spoken like a true enlisted with his head stuck in the sand. Yes, there are some d-bag officers... but there are also plenty of d-bag NCOs/SNCOs. Having rank doesn't make one a great leader -- and that's a rule applicable to <em>both</em> the officer and enlisted sides.</p>