<p>In junior high many moons ago, it was mandatory for us to take industrial arts, which involved everything from drafting using mechanical pencils & a T-square to actual ‘shop’, using machines with weird names like ‘lathe’. Even though I had absolutely no proclivity towards that kind of stuff at all, I loved it. Didn’t follow up on it at all in high school or further, but I think more of that type of thing is better, earlier, before everyone gets caught up with not choosing classes that could potentially screw up a GPA.</p>
<p>For the mathematically inclined, one can become an actuary without a degree, but it requires studying and passing a series of exams.</p>
<p>@ MizzBee: “Now, to pay for this in the high school area means reducing the AP classes, cutting enrichment courses, etc. and since every parent wants their child to go to college, there is no way that will happen”</p>
<p>It happens because our community values every child, not just students who are going to an Ivy league school. Not every parent wants their child to go to college – most of them want their child to find success, and that’s not going to be college in every case. We have an awesome array of AP classes, many CTC (our vo-tech program) classes ARE enrichment classes, and most importantly, we give praise and publicity to successes in all areas of our schools. The notion that college bound students possess superior skills or intelligence is not something that gains a lot of ground here. We are “doing it all” – it costs a lot, but the results are worth it.</p>
<p>Greenbutton, I don’t want to imply that vocational ed IS less. But, at least in my state, we don’t have the funding to have it all and the vocal parents tend to be the ones that don’t want to cut the programs that benefit the college bound. It was the same when I lived in Berkeley, CA, so it is not a Midwestern phenomemon. Of course, our state has property tax caps, so hard decisions are made every day.</p>
<p>It doesn’t work for us, obviously, since we are a state with some of the lowest college graduate populations, but my only option is to move to another state-something that my family is unable to do. I live in an area that doesn’t care about the Ivy League, they care about unemployment and living paycheck to paycheck. We can’t throw money at the problem because there is none in our state coffers.</p>
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<p>If they accept 8 A’s and an A- from any Mickey Mouse school in the country, and reject the 7 A’s and 2 A-'s from Yale, they are crazy. </p>
<p>There is no nursing school in the world that is as academically competitive for admission as a top university.</p>
<p>Thanks, and please keep these good suggestions and comments coming. </p>
<p>Concerning high schools and Vo-Tech, I can only add an anecdote. It might be worth slogging through if you’re a h.s. administrator of some kind.</p>
<p>Our D in a poor rural district graduated with two h.s. diplomas. During her junior and senior years, she bunched all her academic classes into the morning hours. This scheduling part was easy because a system was already in place. For years, the bright senior students had the choice to take afternoon college classes at the Community College in the afternoons rather than more h.s. electives. For that reason, all honors classes were offered only before lunch. This school offered no AP’s. She took all those Honors offerings. </p>
<p>At noon, instead of heading off with a handful of other bright light seniors to Community College, my D boarded a different schoolbus bound for the rural district’s Vocational Tech highschool, which happened to be housed on the BOCES (special education) campus. This caused some social misunderstandings (aka, rejection) for my D by other honors students who saw her boarding along with all the Special Education students who did half-days at the main highschool. (Later, it was taken up separately that the BOCES students were so geographically segregated, another story). </p>
<p>Arriving at the Vo-Tech building each afternoon, she pursued a two-year pilot program called “Media Studies,” covering TV camerawork, radio broadcasting, video production and editing, theatrical stagecraft/stage management (mostly behind-the-scenes). The emphasis was hands-on experience, but the program director also conducted discussion seminars with minimal book-homework. He knew his students well. </p>
<p>By quirk of fate, a Broadway producer had recently moved to that rural community and HE created this program single-handedly. Students received a certificate of completion in Media Studies/Vocational Technology upon graduation. It’s not a recognized certificate professionally, but provides students an attractive talking point at work interviews in those fields. </p>
<p>The other students were very spikey and tattooed, so it was a growth experience for my D (and us!). The A’s she made there were hard-earned (this producer was a bear!). They counterbalanced a few C’s she got in Math from the regular high school (whole other story) which made her GPA respectable for applying to good and great LAC’s.</p>
<p>I’m sure her unique earning of two h.s. diplomas, one a Regents Honors Academic track and the other in Vo-Tech, plus her essay about what all that meant to her, was something interesting for whichever college admissions officer read her application. It’s certainly unusual. </p>
<p>Hers was a solo pursuit, to be sure. She endured the honors students whispering about her that she was being “bussed to Special Education.” At the Vo-Tech campus she knew not to boast or even discuss her honors academic track of the morning hours. She ate lunch on the bus which was unpleasant and bumpy, but oh well. All that was good, IMO. Today her empathy for others in pain is boundless.</p>
<p>I would say the hardest part for me was seeing my friendly, attractive girl find no friends in h.s. until one brilliant lone-ranger boyfriend her senior year. When her a.m. academic teachers told me at conferences how she always walked friendless through the school halls, I was at a loss except to tell my D, “Wait for college, just hang in there.” Indeed when she got to her LAC, a place that appreciates diversity, her social life blossomed instantly and she made great friends thereafter. </p>
<p>The program no longer exists. I think the school district hounded the Media Studies program director to near-distraction – for example, denied him the chance to produce “Bang Bang You’re Dead” unless he’d change the title of the play (which he wouldn’t, thanks to his own artistic integrity). He moved back to NYC. Although the program ended right there, a cohort of Media Studies students got the full two years and learned a lot of useful skills. They all gained confidence. Some work in these areas today.</p>
<p>paying3tuitions,
what a GREAT story! thanks for making my day… Needs to be publicized somehow!!!</p>
<p>p3t:
That is a wonderful story. I can think of so many wonderful mixes that <em>could</em> occur if kids really had an option to mix and match like that. If I had been really creative and visionary and persistent, could I have designed something like that for my son? Hmmm. It certainly could make school more meaningful and useful for a lot of kids, I think.</p>
<p>When I was in HS in NYC the 70’s, my mom suggested I leave my Catholic School, and go to a huge public school because of their vocational offerings. Speficially, I graduated with a CNA and some AP’s. I suppose any student vcould have done it, but it met with some resitance, and it was apparently quite unusual to be taking both vocational and AP classes. My mom knew it was possible because she taught the same program in another school. It was intersting to move between those two settings. Not sure how many other NYC publics had that option, or have it now, but my old school shut it’s doors this year because they couldn’t get the graduation rate up to 50 percent, and it was considered “persistantly dnagerous”. That CNA work was backbreaking, especially for a teenager, but it sure paid well.</p>
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<p>Seeing as how easy it is to get an A at Yale, perhaps not.</p>
<p>[The</a> American Scholar: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education - William Deresiewicz](<a href=“http://theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/]The”>The American Scholar: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education - <a href='https://theamericanscholar.org/author/william-deresiewicz/'>William Deresiewicz</a>)</p>
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<p>Yale may be harder to get into, but I’d wager it’s a lot easier to get out of.</p>
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<p>Are you saying that it’s hard to get out of nursing school? That was not my experience at all – quite a few of my former coworkers ended up dropping out a third of the way through. I don’t know anything about the academic rigor of Yale (although I suspect that, like almost every other college in the country, it is what you make of it) but there were relatively few barriers to leaving nursing school (in my experience!). That doesn’t make the people who left bad people in anyway; nursing – like another other career – is a calling and if you’re not suited to it it’s better to find out early on so that you can move quickly to find what you’re really suited for than to slog through it. </p>
<p>And, of course, being a nurse isn’t a magic bullet for a career either.</p>
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<p>Just my point - it’s harder to get out with a degree/certificate (and yes, I should have been more specific.)</p>
<p>"If they accept 8 A’s and an A- from any Mickey Mouse school in the country, and reject the 7 A’s and 2 A-'s from Yale, they are crazy.</p>
<p>There is no nursing school in the world that is as academically competitive for admission as a top university."</p>
<p>Who said anything about “academically competitive”? The issue was getting into the nursing school (and what you can do AFTER you get your B.A. at that “academically competitive” institution.) Maybe they are crazy, but to them, Yale is Mickey Mouse - after all, what’s the median graduating GPA, 3.4?</p>
<p>The majority of Yalies couldn’t get in, not without repeating courses, or “remedial work”. Many of the Yalies who got into medical school, even Harvard Medical School, couldn’t get in (without same). </p>
<p>(And yes, the dropout rate was about one third, or was several years ago, and maybe another quarter only made it to LPN. I have the impression that most of those left for monetary reasons - they needed money immediately to feed their families.)</p>
<p>Academically competitive? Call it what you like.</p>
<p>Honest to God, it’s the truth. Nobody asks a good bookkeeper about her background, because as long as she does the work, nobody cares. People otherwise are paying CPA firms $110+ an hour for virtually the same work, so clients see it as a bargain. A friend of mine has a client who is a nonprofit and my friend makes $50/hr as their bookkeeper, while the attorney on staff at the nonprofit makes $18/hr, I kid you not. It’s the best kept secret out there.</p>