<p>Saying</a> No to College - NYTimes.com
The idea that a college diploma is an all-but-mandatory ticket to a successful career is showing fissures. Feeling squeezed by a sagging job market and mounting student debt, a groundswell of university-age heretics are pledging allegiance to new groups like UnCollege, dedicated to hacking higher education.</p>
<p>And what are the options for those that don’t go to college…flipping burgers? Society has decided that they want people with college educations. I’m sure these groups are all well and good, but what jobs do they propose these high school graduates take?</p>
<p>There are still options for those who don’t go to college. We still need truck drivers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, and other journeymen (women? lol). Some of these trades are very lucrative. For some people, these are better options than college. It really depends on the individual’s skill sets.</p>
<p>2016BarnardMom makes a good point, but the article is focusing on a different group of young people – those who have the academic aptitude for college but choose not to go (or not to graduate).</p>
<p>I am concerned that for some of these young people, this is a decision they will regret later. They can’t know at 19 what paths their careers will take. They may find themselves in situations where opportunities are unavailable to them because they don’t have the college degree that they could easily have obtained. And getting a college degree later in life can be very difficult because of all the other responsibilities that adults have.</p>
<p>I agree. I was responding primarily to SteveMA. The article talks about software programmers in particular. For most people and most programming jobs, a degree is required. If you can get an interview or a job without the degree, you may not ever be able to be promoted. </p>
<p>My previous boss is a computer whiz and got into the field before a lot of people had degrees. He is very smart and knows his stuff but has no certifications and no college. He has advanced within one company because he has proven himself, but he can’t get another job with no certs and no degree.</p>
<p>2016BarnardMom–all of those careers require some post-secondary training though, usually at a vo-tech/CC and they cost money too with little to no aid available so paying the full cost out of pocket, or more likely taking loans. In our area 2 years of a CC would cost our kids MORE than going to the private college they will be attending. Not always the case but people just assume that CC is less expensive and it is not.</p>
<p>I agree with you on that! CC is not always less expensive. One thing that people often forget when saying a child should commute to a CC to save money is the cost of transportation. If you have to purchase a car, pay insurance, maintenance and gas costs, etc… you often have paid the difference between a 4 year college and a CC just in those costs alone.</p>
<p>Despite the cost, a 2-year CC program that consists primarily of job training may be a good choice for a young person who is ill-suited for 4 years of academics.</p>
<p>As I am getting blasted on another thread for saying the CC is not a real college, most everyone else lumps CC in to the “college” title and thus they should be saying no to CC too.</p>
<p>Interesting how the article points to a handful of college drop outs that have made it, BIG, how about a list of the 1000’s that are flipping burgers that didn’t’ :D.</p>
<p>Ha ha you guys are hoisted by your own petard- yeah smart, self motivated types would do just as well in life with a degree from State U as Yale. But they would also do just as well without a college degree. Whoops! Off message, cant have that. </p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that most business use dont use anything you are paying to learn in college. They really dont need your two semesters of French, or your analysis of Dubliners, and they dont need you to integrate sin theta for them. Most of the time a 4 year college degree is really proxy test for if they person is self disciplined enough to direct their focus over a long period of time. And Ivy league degree verses CC is a proxy employment test for IQ. So all that extra money you paid to learn Herodotus at Yale verses county was wasted, except for the fact that now everyone looking at your resume knows about how smart and hard working your are. </p>
<p>Since 50-80% of your college degree is really just proving you are an employable person verses job skills it is possible someone could come up with a replacement for that component.</p>
<p>Or, college grads that are flipping burgers, as Steve hints.
This is an unusually tough time for those seeking jobs. SOme dropouts may have made it big, some haven’t, but also some college grads haven’t made it big.
And yes, there is a lot in between those that “go to college…flipping burgers” comparison. While what we call the trades may not be glamorous, plumbers and electricians are generally in short supply and those working can generaly command pretty good money for their service.</p>
<p>^heaven forbid one expands their knowledge beyond what is needed for their job…the crime of that, what a waste of time…:rolleyes:</p>
<p>No you don’t “need” 2 years of french but buy taking such classes, outside of your job duties, shows employers that you can indeed learn new things. College is not job training, go to a community college if you want that.</p>
<p>argb may have made some spelling mistakes, but s/he makes a point about the prestige factor in a college degree. We all know some on this forum are willing to pay more, far more, for a big name school. There is some debate on how effective that strategy may be, given other factors involved in hiring process.</p>
<p>younghoss–like I said though, even those careers require post-secondary education, community college. The group says ‘no’ to college so again, what jobs are available for a high school grad with no post secondary training. I’ve asked this on many threads of a similar topic and no one has been able to give me a good answer past minimum wage jobs flipping burgers or assembling widgets. Tell me college doesn’t pay off in the long run when those are your options. Sure, those jobs are great for the right people but for kids that are college material, they would last a week, maybe doing most of those jobs.</p>
<p>Personally, I know plumbers, electricians, some managers in factories, and a landlord doing well with only OJT. Though I strongly agree college is a better option for most, I wanted it for my S, but I see a number of jobs between burgers or boardroom that don’t require formal post secondary education.</p>
<p>“what jobs are available for a high school grad with no post secondary training.”</p>
<p>A List celebrity</p>
<p>Depending on how you define “post-secondary”, General of the Armies. </p>
<p>And mayor of Los Angles.</p>
<p>younghoss–and those people graduated from high school in the past 10 years or less? Again, be specific with the jobs you see that will hire, today, a high school grad that pays more than $10/hour or the regional equivalent.</p>
<p>argbargy—real jobs that are possible, today, for a high school grad, not someone with 30 years of career experience…:rolleyes:</p>
<p>I know somebody who has worked in retail for years and ends up doing a lot of work that wold fall more under a managerial job description than his own job description. He’s been told that the company cannot officially promote him to manager because he does not have a college degree.</p>
<p>So even to get much past minimum wage in some retail jobs a degree is needed.</p>