I did some research on med schools and these med schools: VCU, Yale, UVA, Case Western, UW, Northwestern, Duke accept AP credit (minus AP eng, and they also expect advanced courses). I was thinking I should use my science AP credit and take advanced courses because introductory science classes are cut throat and are made so that 50% fail. But so you think the med school would down on you if you used AP credit even if they did accept them? (When shown in transcript)
Are you really thinking that upper level, more advanced courses will be easier than introductory courses? Really? That’s what you think?
If only a small fraction of medical schools accept AP credit, I think you should take the introductory classes that offer a broader range of target medical schools in your future. I get that the intro classes in competitive majors can be challenging. However, I would say there are no easier roads to becoming a physician.
You might want to consider using your AP credits to take advanced course. This is a FAQ on the topic from the Duke PreHealth website: https://prehealth.duke.edu/frequently-asked-questions
Here are some related tips from their Premed course guide: https://prehealth.duke.edu/sites/prehealth.duke.edu/files/file-attachments/PH%20Tips%20for%20Fall%20classes%202017.pdf
Your school probably offers similar advice.
- Most, but not all, med schools accept AP credits.
However, schools that do accept AP credit expect applicants to supplement any AP/IB credits awarded with an equivalent number of of additional upper level credits in the same department.
Example, if your AP Bio score gives you credit for Intro Bio 1 at your college, you can skip that class and take Intro Bio 2 plus another UL bio class with a lab to fulfill admission requirements. Things are bit trickier w/r/t chem requirements because you will need to supplement AP Chem coursework with non-organic chemistry classes. IOW you can’t just skip gen chem, take OChem and biochem and call it done. You’d need to take inorganic chem, analytic chem or physical chemistry (and their labs) to supplement Chem AP credits.
You should check the AP credit policies of all your state med schools (which are every pre-med’s best chance for a med school admission) and any med schools you think you may want to apply to in the future.
Please note that admission requirements can and do change from year to year. Policies can be changed at any time–even during the application cycle–so what’s acceptable today may not be 4 years from now.
- If you receive AP credit from your college for a specific class, then take the class for which you’ve received AP credit–you must mark that class as “re-taken” on your AMCAS application.
Example, your AP Bio score earns you credit for Intro Bio 1 at your college and that credit is recorded on your transcript, then you decide to take Intro Bio 1 anyway. On your med school application, AMCAS will mark Intro Bio1 as “re-taken.”
Re-takes hold inherent expectations (you need to earn an A in the re-take or else it’s a big negative ding on your app) and negative connotations (grade grubbing, GPA padding).
- Med schools are moving away from requiring specific coursework for admission and toward competency based admission policies. Many schools have already adopted competency based admission protocols and all allopathic med schools are required to use competency-based admissions starting in 2021.
One of the reasons for this move is to encourage students to challenge themselves academically and to offer multiple pathways to fulfilling admission requirements.
See [The Core Competencies for Entering Medical Students](https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/article/core-competencies/)
So to answer your question--no med schools will not "look down on you" for using AP credit to bypass intro level classes and move into higher level coursework.
However, I will also caution you that at more competitive colleges a high school AP class really isn't an adequate substitute for the intro level class. The college class may cover more material and cover the same material in greater depth and detail than your AP class did. Skipping the intro level core means you could easily find yourself in an UL class without the necessary background preparation.
I suggest that once you've made a final college decision that you look online for old copies of the final exam in any course you're thinking of placing out of. Take the exam and score it to see how well or poorly your AP class prepared you for the real thing before making any final decision about bypassing intro level classes.
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introductory science classes are cut throat and are made so that 50% fail.
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As a FYI, the reason why UL classes have lower fail out rates is because all the weaker students have already been culled out, not because the classes are inherently less cutthroat/competitive. Students in UL classes can and do get C/D/F grades and students continue to get culled out in science classes all the way to graduation. @WayOutWestMom : Could you elaborate on the competency based admission? Does that mean there would be no definitive premed requirement courses in the future? Thanks very much.
Yes, competency based admissions is eliminating the traditional requirements for specific classes–i.e. 2 semesters of gen chem w/ labs, 2 semesters physics w/ labs, etc–in favor of core science, critical thinking/reasoning and pre-professional competencies.
See the link I posted upthread to read the specific competencies required.
(As a side comment–please note that 2/3 of the expected competencies are non-academic.)
The new AAMC policy allow each individual school to determine how to best assess whether an applicant has met these competencies. Many schools will now accept a range of [typically upper level and interdisciplinary] courses in various scientific disciplines as demonstration of specific competencies. Some schools will accept extensive hands on, multi year research as proof of competency. Others may allow other alternatives.
Your best resource for discovering what competency assessment tools a specific med school uses will be that school’s admission website.
NOTE: scoring well on the MCAT is NOT considered an acceptable method of demonstrating mastery of a specific competency. This is due to the fact that the exact content of each MCAT exam varies between sittings, with different topics being tested more heavily on some exams than others.
I suggest you look at the admissions websites of Keck@USC, Michigan and Duke–all of whom are early adopters of competency based admission processes.
[University of Michigan: MD Admission Requirements](https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/md-program/md-admissions/requirements)
[Duke University Office of MD Admissions: Academic Expectations](https://medschool.duke.edu/education/student-services/office-admissions/admissions-process/academic-expectations)
[Prerequisites of the Keck School of Medicine](Admissions | Keck School of Medicine of USC)
Note that all of these schools have a STRONGLY recommended list of coursework that will satisfy various admission requirements. (Which I take to mean that applicants who do not have the recommended academic coursework must be able to argue for a special exception in their case based upon some significant outside achievement like a major journal paper or the like.)
@Caberet1 Medical school will not look you down for using AP course for the pre-req. But use these 2 guidelines.
- First get the 1 page doc from your current UG univ Pre-Med Office. You need to clear the gate at Pre-Med office before thinking about Medical school. There they would have listed what AP courses will be given credit against what course number based on AP score. So make sure you meet all requirements of your pre-med office.
- If AP course is given credit, then make sure to do some advanced courses in respective areas so that medical school knows your academic capability in core BCMP areas.
My D was not keen on doing any AP courses at college since her college accepted all AP courses.
But in Bio, she did 4 advanced courses (Genetics, Molecular, Physiology, Entomology). In Chem none, but did 2 years of research in Chem dept and got 8 Honors credit hours (besides doing OChem1, 2 & BioChem). Math, only Stats she did. Only for AP Psych, though she got credit with some course number, Pre-Med office course number was different. So she was left with no choice do one course, though she felt the content was not that much different from what she learned in AP Psych. She was in a unique situation and she prevailed.
A lot of competitive colleges, especially Top-30 schools known for premed will be stingy with AP credits, especially for the sciences.
My son’s school gives graduation/general education credits for a 5 in Biology/Chemistry but students still need to take the standard sequence. Physics C/EM are the only classes that earn actual science credit with a 5 on the associated AP tests.
The school is more generous with AP credits for math (gives credit for Calc 1/2 with a 5 in BC and full credit for a 5 in Stats). Premeds are actually required to take Calculus 3/Multivariable or the advanced version of Statistics and Biology majors are under the same requirement (need to take Multivariable Calculus to graduate).
Definitely do your research. There are very few schools where premeds actually need to take more advanced math classes like Multivariable Calculus or Calculus based Statistics, but that helps demonstrate proficiency.
Even for those medical schools that do not accept AP credit, wouldn’t substituting upper level courses in the same department be acceptable? E.g. physical chemistry instead of general chemistry, multivariable calculus or real analysis instead of single variable calculus, etc.
The most problematic AP credit for this purpose may be physics 1 or 2. That is because physics for biology majors and pre-meds (with light calculus or no calculus) may not have any upper level physics course that follows it, since it is considered a terminal sequence for those who will not take more physics courses. So a pre-med at a college where his/her AP physics 1 and/or 2 scores are credited against physics for biology majors and pre-meds may have to choose between retaking physics for biology majors and pre-meds (and having to mark the course as “repeat” on the medical school application, which looks like grade-grubbing) or taking physics for physics majors (which requires more math like multivariable calculus, and will have stronger-at-physics competition for A grades in the grading curve, though if the pre-med likes math and is good at it, the physics may be easier to understand with more math).
Our strategy for physics is as follows:
[ol]
[] Take AP physics course in HS senior year.
[] Take multivariable calculus in HS senior year.
[] Don not take AP physics exam in HS senior year.
[] Retake basic physics course in college sophomore year to get an easy “A” while spending time on orgo/biochem. The comment was “it is easier than HS AP physics.”
[li] No retake is shown on transcript. A little bit of planning goes a long way.[/li][/ol]
This is school dependent. Some will; some won’t.
Med schools are not required to allow substitutions. In fact policies at some med schools specifically prohibit coursework substitutions.
The bigger issue is that medical schools are not required to do (and most do not do) transcript audits to determine if admission requirements have been met until AFTER final, post-graduation transcripts have been received as part of the on-boarding process.
Med schools are required to have on record a final official transcript showing all pre-reqs have been fulfilled PRIOR to the first day of orientation. Unless that official transcript has been received, LCME requires that any offers of admission must be withdrawn. With schools holding orientation as early as late June, there isn’t time to take a missing pre-req in the summer prior to matriculation.
Seems like the FAQ on course work should be updated if the above is the case.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/214382-coursework-p1.html has the following (underline added):
It also means that if a pre-med with college-accepted AP credit wants to apply to medical schools that do not accept AP credit and do not allow substituting higher level courses, s/he will be stuck with the “repeat” notation for the retake of his/her AP credit, giving the impression that s/he is a grade-grubber even if that is not what s/he really wanted to do (but did so only because of those medical schools’ requirements).
Given A) how difficult it is to get into medical school, and B) how critical your MCAT score is to getting in, and C) the material covered in AP Bio, AP Chem and AP Physics 1 & 2 is all test in depth on the MCAT, I would be nervous if DS was planning to use the AP credit and was not taking the courses as a college freshman (sophomore in his case for physics).
FWIW DS got 5s on AP Bio and AP Chem and a 3 on Physics 1 (Physics 2 not offered at his HS). AP Bio doesn’t count at his school for either of the first year biology classes for majors anyway (credit only given for gen ed biology for nonmajors), so that wasn’t really an option anyway.
I like that he is repeating all for MCAT review purposes. I love the idea of using AP credit for gen ed credits (social sciences, English, A&H, etc.) where you aren’t planning to take additional coursework in the subject. But not for these critical science classes that are on the MCAT, material you want to have down cold.
Even if you have a lot of AP or DE credits when you start undergrad, trying to graduate in three years and start med school in year four seems like a really hard thing to do. Your taking the MCAT and applying to med schools in the spring and summer at the end of your second year of college, so you are losing a lot of opportunity to round out your resume.
As a FYI, very few, if any, med schools will allow applicants to use AP classes to fulfill the 2 semester of college writing requirement. Also any applicant needs to check on whether a med school with hard requirements for social sciences will accept AP credits.
Louisville accepts one semester of AP English and one semester of any upper level English or writing intensive (WR) course.
Don’t a lot of schools allow you to sub WR courses to meet their requirement?
https://oaa.rice.edu/sites/g/files/bxs1651/f/pdf/AP%20Credit%20-%20Allopathic%20Medical%20Schools%20%28Updated%20Summer%202018%29.pdf is an advising sheet from Rice University to its pre-meds regarding acceptance of AP credit. It does say to verify with the medical schools themselves.
But it is entirely possible that different medical schools have requirements or preferences that conflict with each other. For example, whatever medical school referenced in reply #11 that does not accept AP credit and does not accept substitution of a higher level course (forcing the pre-med to repeat the AP credit and look like a grade grubber) conflicts with medical schools (e.g. Minnesota) that state things like “Do not retake coursework for which you already received AP credit.”
^^^
The above is absolutely correct.
There are no universal policies w/r/t to admission coursework, course substitutions, or AP credits. Each med school sets its own policies which mean it’s incumbent on the applicant to do their due diligence before applying to med school. That’s what MSAR is for.
@LOUKYDAD
Many med schools will allow writing intensive courses IF the WI designation appears own the official school transcripts, but there are some med school that specify coursework must taken within the English dept and have an ENGL designation.
@WayOutWestMom If a student is using AP credit for the first semester of English and DE credit for second semester, would taking an upper level English department class that is transcript designated as writing intensive (example - Scientific and Technical Writing) be a good move?
Similarly, if using AP Calc BC credit for calc 1 and calc 2, take calc 3 as undergraduate?
AP Chem - take an upper level class in physical chem (example - Elements of Physical Chem, which would finish out the minor)
AP Psyc - cover by taking upper level classes to complete either psychology minor or second major in Neuroscience
I guess I am really asking, even if not expressly required by an OOS med school, have you improved your position in a competitive admissions pool by challenging yourself and succeeding in the class?
DS is in a rare good situation where he has guaranteed admission in state. He could afford to take risk of taking a hit to his GPA. Might do so if it improves chances of getting into a top program. Recall now this was one of the selling points of the guaranteed admission program, the ability to take a risk and trying harder courses without screwing up chances of med school admission.
None of the above classes are requirements for biology or neuroscience major at his school - all would be electives. He has plenty of room in a 4 year plan.
If you mean the GEMS program at http://louisville.edu/medicine/admissions/programs/gems , there is still a 3.4 GPA minimum and an MCAT minimum to meet. Although 3.4 GPA is lower than the 3.7 GPA that pre-meds target, it is still high enough that there is still significant GPA pressure on the pre-med in the program.
He may want to make sure that his course choices fulfill the requirements of the medical school he has the assurance to. If GEMS at Louisville, see http://louisville.edu/medicine/admissions/app-process/complete-prerequisites (and he should ask directly if anything is unclear).