Pre-med at MIT compare to other top schools HYPS

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>D got EA into MIT/Caltech and would like to matriculate to town of Cambridge. She wants to pursue Computer Science as BS and would like to go for MD after that.
This is what I got from MIT web site regarding their 2007 batch of pre-med
Preprofessional</a> Stats - MIT Careers Office</p>

<p>The pre-health advising undergraduate students acceptance rate is ~90%

[quote]

MIT Undergraduate Applicants 83.6%
-pre-health advising user acceptance 89.7%

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Can some one posts HYPS pre-med undergraduate acceptance rates? I've heard that it is > 90% but couldn't find any concrete data.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the help.</p>

2

<p>There were 401 posts in the best pre-med program. Can some one puts links to the claims made in those post about > 90% acceptance rates of HYPS?
I’m unable to find any concrete statistics from these schools website.</p>

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<p>Yes, but the problem is that, inexplicably, not every MIT premed will get advising. </p>

<p>[Woes</a> of a Premed - The Tech](<a href=“http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N9/sproehl.html]Woes”>http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N9/sproehl.html)</p>

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<p>Princeton no longer posts its data on its website. But that’s OK, as the Wayback Machine archives everything:</p>

<p><a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20060902101131/web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/handouts/2005Statistics.pdf[/url]”>http://web.archive.org/web/20060902101131/web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/handouts/2005Statistics.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I would carefully read the discussion below, and in particular, compare the discussion/dispute between myself and cellardweller, and make your own conclusion about who is correct. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/541176-so-pre-med-mit-pretty-much-impossible-4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/541176-so-pre-med-mit-pretty-much-impossible-4.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

4

<p>sakky: The link doesn’t work</p>

<p><a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/200609021...Statistics.pdf[/url]”>http://web.archive.org/web/200609021...Statistics.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>and the point was inside all ‘Best pre-med schools’ discussion, you have tried to put down MIT pre-med while from what it seems that it is up there with any of the HYPS pre-med as per matriculation to the top medical schools.
For 2007:

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<p>Also it seems you didn’t read the article fully:</p>

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<p>Most school allow pre-health, pre-med advising iff you enroll during freshmen or sophomore year. You cann’t blame the institute if you decide to do Medicine in your final year.</p>

5

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<p>Try again later. The Internet Archive is apparently experiencing technical difficulties. </p>

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<p>Uh, wrong. Please read the data more carefully. What you have posted is not MIT’s matriculation data, but rather the accepted data. Obviously, not everybody who gets accepted to a med-school will actually choose to go, as some people will get accepted to multiple schools and will have to pick one.</p>

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<p>I would hardly say that I ‘put down’ MIT premed. Rather, it’s the data that ‘puts down’ MIT. For example, once the Internet Archive is working again, you will be able to verify that something like 93% of all Princeton premeds (undergrads and alumni) who apply to med school will get in, compared to 75-80% from MIT. That’s not me speaking, that’s the data speaking. </p>

<p>We all have the right to our own opinions, but we don’t have the right to our own facts. It’s not my fault that the facts say what they say.</p>

6

<p>Those aren’t matriculation numbers. They’re acceptance numbers. You could conceivably (and even likely) have the same 12 superstars getting into a lot of top schools. </p>

<p>The acceptance rates of MIT applicants to top schools are good, generally 2-3X the overall acceptance rate of the school.</p>

7

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<p>The question on the table isn’t whether MIT’s acceptance numbers are good on any absolute case. Obviously MIT is a top school and so you would expect MIT to clearly outperform the average school. </p>

<p>The question on the table is whether MIT compares favorably to its peer schools, which I generally take to be places like HYPS. That’s a far dicier proposition, and the evidence seems to indicate that the answer is probably ‘no’. </p>

<p>But don’t take my word for it. Read the data yourself, read the counterarguments presented by my cellardweller (and my rebuttals) and draw your own conclusion.</p>

8

<p>I’m also interested in peer evaluation of MIT pre-med too.

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<p>But it is not possible to get the numbers from HYPS which are so readily available from MIT. That actually put doubts on your claims.</p>

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<p>Except MIT applicants display very little self-selection and are still outperforming the national average. 140 out of 190 students applied to Harvard. Heck even 71 students applied to UCLA. I’m willing to bet a lot of those applicants weren’t even CA applicants. To have a 12% acceptance rate to Harvard when nearly all of your premeds are applying is impressive no matter how you slice and dice it. </p>

<p>The only other school that I know of that releases data in this format is Berkeley. Note the much lower applicant numbers (despite a much higher number of total students and med school applicants). Despite the self-selection, Berkeley applicants still fair worse at top med schools.</p>

<p>[Career</a> Center - Medical School Statistics](<a href=“http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm]Career”>http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm)</p>

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<p>Just wait for the Internet Archive to come back. Have patience. It’s not my fault the Archive is down. I don’t run their website. </p>

<p>Or, in the mean time, read the discussion between cellardweller and I, where I presented the data (when the Archive was functional), and he read it and accepted it as valid (although he still disagreed with the conclusion). </p>

<p>If you still don’t believe me, and really insist on seeing the data, then fine. I will happily raise the stakes. Get a Harvard undergrad to go to their premed advisor and examine the books for you. The data is available, it’s just not available to the public, but surely you can find somebody at Harvard who is willing to look up the data for you, and they will report whether the admit rate is better than MIT’s or not. If they report that it is not, then I will happily come back here and say that I was wrong. </p>

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<p>Impressive compared to the average school? Of course! MIT is clearly better than the average school. </p>

<p>The real question is, whether MIT compares well to places like HYPS. Like I said, wait for the Archive to get fixed. Or, in the mean time, read the dispute between me and cellerdweller, where we actually analyzed who had the better premed “success rate”, an argument which I believe I won, although you are free to make your own determination. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/541176-so-pre-med-mit-pretty-much-impossible-4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/541176-so-pre-med-mit-pretty-much-impossible-4.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Well, we’re not comparing MIT to Berkeley now, are we? As you know, I have written many a post decrying the (relatively) hapless state of Berkeley premed.</p>

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<p>Princeton Pre-Med Advising site says:</p>

<p>"Will I be competitive?</p>

<p>Some of you may worry about whether you will get into medical school. It is important for you to remember that no one factor gets a student into medical school, or keeps a student out. Medical schools evaluate an entire academic record; one “C” in science will not keep you out. Try not to get too bogged down with GPAs. We will be happy to speak with you about your record and give you our assessment of how things look. In general we can tell you that students with a B+ average (3.3) or better from Princeton are getting into medical school. Our acceptance rate has always been excellent."</p>

<p>Take it for what it’s worth, I suppose.</p>

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<p>Uh, I read the article fully. I know full well what the article says. Did you read the article fully? The person in question did not decide to do medicine in the final year, as you have asserted, but rather in the junior year. </p>

<p>*“Are you a second semester sophomore?” she asked. “No, I’m a second semester junior.” *</p>

<p>[Woes</a> of a Premed - The Tech](<a href=“http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N9/sproehl.html]Woes”>http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N9/sproehl.html)</p>

<p>Come on, ParentofIvyHope, don’t accuse somebody else of not having read something carefully if you haven’t read it carefully yourself. </p>

<p>But to your direct point, even if you were right and MIT didn’t offer advising to seniors, why shouldn’t I blame MIT for that? Now, sure, it may well be true that ‘most’ schools only offer premed advising to only freshman and sophomores. But so what? MIT is not just any school. MIT is supposed to be one of the very best schools. Hence, it is supposed to be better than most other schools out there. If we were just talking about some low-ranked 4th tier school, then you don’t expect much. But if you’re one of the best schools out there, then you should be able to meet high expectations. </p>

<p>Put another way, just look at the situation from a relative standpoint. HYPS provide premed advising to everybody, including seniors. I’ve never heard anybody at those schools asking for premed advising and not getting it. So why can’t MIT do the same? After all, it’s not like MIT is hurting for money. MIT has one of the largest endowments in the world. Is it really that hard for MIT to hire some more advisors? Come on, really? MIT can do plenty of amazing things, but they can’t do that?? How much do advisors really cost?</p>

<p>That’s my point. We all know that MIT can do it. MIT just doesn’t want to do it. And that’s sad. MIT should be out to help its students accomplish whatever goals they choose, and when a school with the resources that MIT has can’t offer premed advising to everybody, frankly, that’s just ridiculous.</p>

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<p>That’s actually shocking that MIT only offers advising to those who decide freshmen and sophomore years. Is that just for that years admission cycle or will they simply not advise them for all future years, a proposition I find hard to believe. </p>

<p>For example, my school recently advised an alumni who graduated some 18 years ago, and while I’d say my school is pretty solid and has very good advising, its not MIT.</p>

14

<p>Is the premed adviser thing in the article for premed committee letter? I would be surprised if you even need to ask these counselors for advice; you can just ask things on studentdoctor.net or on here. However, i know my school has this deadline to open a file in order to get the committee letter, but that is a completely different story.</p>

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<p>Well, it’s not quite that bad. It’s not that MIT won’t offer any advising to students who don’t decide in the first two years. Rather, MIT just won’t guarantee that you will get advising if you decide late. Maybe you’ll get it, but maybe you won’t, on a space-available basis. </p>

<p>Like I said, I still find that problem to be preposterous, for this is not just any old scrub school we’re talking about here. *This is MIT. * I could possibly understand if some huge, low-ranked state school with little money and tens of thousands of undergrads might not be able to offer advising to everybody. MIT has only 4200 undergrads. MIT has the 6th largest endowment of any school in the US. Yet some MIT premeds can’t get advising? What is up with that?</p>

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<p>Sakky,</p>

<p>Perhaps the committee wants to ensure that students who come to them for advice, do so in an appropriate time frame such that it allows the student to actually follow the advice they are given and finish the necessary courses and admission tests in a timely fashion. </p>

<p>I suspect their rigid timelines are set to discourage late changes in majors.</p>

17

<p>And the way to do that is to simply not provide to some students any advising at all? </p>

<p>Like I said, you don’t actually need an advisor to apply. According to the data, some MIT premeds apply sans advising.</p>

<p>So think about what that means. You say that the committee wants to ensure that students come to them in a timely fashion. Yet those students who fail to do this are probably still going to proceed to apply anyway. They’re just going to proceed without any advising at all. Is that really optimal? </p>

<p>A far better solution would be to provide advising to everybody, including the supposedly “late” people, a notion that I would actually dispute (see below). What you could tell these supposedly ‘late’ students is that, you’re late, it’s going to be a time crunch for you, but we’re still going to give you an advisor. The answer is not to simply deny advising completely to such students.</p>

<p>That’s what schools like HYPS do. Harvard premeds aren’t denied advising just because they’re “late”. If a Harvard senior, in his very last semester, decides he wants to be a premed, he can get an advisor. </p>

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<p>This entire stream of logic presumes that all premeds are going to enter med-school right after undergrad. But this is simply not the case. The average age of entering medical students nationwide is about 24.</p>

<p>The average age of the entering medical student is 24</p>

<p>[The</a> Journal of Young Investigators :: JYI.org](<a href=“http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107]The”>http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107)</p>

<p>*Don’t medical schools look down on people who don’t go directly to medical school from college?</p>

<p>No. The average age of people starting medical school is 24,*</p>

<p>[Swarthmore</a> College :: Health Sciences Office :: Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/x8890.xml]Swarthmore”>Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School :: Health Sciences Office :: Swarthmore College)</p>

<p>Hence, why should MIT be so worried about undergrads who are supposedly “late” in the premed process when numerous medical students don’t enter med-school right after undergrad anyway? </p>

<p>So let’s take the example back to the author of that article. She was denied advising because she was a junior, not a sophomore. Fine, maybe she wouldn’t have been able to get all her premed requirements and MCAT done in time to get into med-school right after graduation. Maybe she would have needed a gap year. Yeah, so what? What - just because you’re not going to get into med-school immediately after graduation, that means that you shouldn’t get advising? Why? What does that have to do with anything?</p>

18

<p>And the way to do that is to simply not provide to some students any advising at all? </p>

<p>Like I said, you don’t actually need an advisor to apply. According to the data, some MIT premeds apply sans advising.</p>

<p>So think about what that means. You say that the committee wants to ensure that students come to them in a timely fashion. Yet those students who fail to do this are probably still going to proceed to apply anyway. They’re just going to proceed without any advising at all. Is that really optimal? </p>

<p>A far better solution would be to provide advising to everybody, including the supposedly “late” people, a notion that I would actually dispute (see below). What you could tell these supposedly ‘late’ students is that, you’re late, it’s going to be a time crunch for you, but we’re still going to give you an advisor. The answer is not to simply deny advising completely to such students.</p>

<p>That’s what schools like HYPS do. Harvard premeds aren’t denied advising just because they’re “late”. If a Harvard senior, in his very last semester, decides he wants to be a premed, he can get an advisor. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This entire stream of logic presumes that all premeds are going to enter med-school right after undergrad. But this is simply not the case. The average age of entering medical students nationwide is about 24.</p>

<p>The average age of the entering medical student is 24</p>

<p>[The</a> Journal of Young Investigators :: JYI.org](<a href=“http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107]The”>http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107)</p>

<p>*Don’t medical schools look down on people who don’t go directly to medical school from college?</p>

<p>No. The average age of people starting medical school is 24,*</p>

<p>[Swarthmore</a> College :: Health Sciences Office :: Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/x8890.xml]Swarthmore”>Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School :: Health Sciences Office :: Swarthmore College)</p>

<p>Hence, why should MIT be so worried about undergrads who are supposedly “late” in the premed process when numerous medical students don’t enter med-school right after undergrad anyway? </p>

<p>So let’s take the example back to the author of that article. She was denied advising because she was a junior, not a sophomore. Fine, maybe she wouldn’t have been able to get all her premed requirements and MCAT done in time to get into med-school right after graduation. Maybe she would have needed a gap year. Yeah, so what? What - just because you’re not going to get into med-school immediately after graduation, that means that you shouldn’t get advising? Why? What does that have to do with anything?</p>

19

<p>And the way to do that is to simply not provide to some students any advising at all? </p>

<p>Like I said, you don’t actually need an advisor to apply. According to the data, some MIT premeds apply sans advising.</p>

<p>So think about what that means. You say that the committee wants to ensure that students come to them in a timely fashion. Yet those students who fail to do this are probably still going to proceed to apply anyway. They’re just going to proceed without any advising at all. Is that really optimal? </p>

<p>A far better solution would be to provide advising to everybody, including the supposedly “late” people, a notion that I would actually dispute (see below). What you could tell these supposedly ‘late’ students is that, you’re late, it’s going to be a time crunch for you, but we’re still going to give you an advisor. The answer is not to simply deny advising completely to such students.</p>

<p>That’s what schools like HYPS do. Harvard premeds aren’t denied advising just because they’re “late”. If a Harvard senior, in his very last semester, decides he wants to be a premed, he can get an advisor. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This entire stream of logic presumes that all premeds are going to enter med-school right after undergrad. But this is simply not the case. The average age of entering medical students nationwide is about 24.</p>

<p>The average age of the entering medical student is 24</p>

<p>[The</a> Journal of Young Investigators :: JYI.org](<a href=“http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107]The”>http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107)</p>

<p>*Don’t medical schools look down on people who don’t go directly to medical school from college?</p>

<p>No. The average age of people starting medical school is 24,*</p>

<p>[Swarthmore</a> College :: Health Sciences Office :: Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/x8890.xml]Swarthmore”>Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School :: Health Sciences Office :: Swarthmore College)</p>

<p>Hence, why should MIT be so worried about undergrads who are supposedly “late” in the premed process when numerous medical students don’t enter med-school right after undergrad anyway? </p>

<p>So let’s take the example back to the author of that article. She was denied advising because she was a junior, not a sophomore. Fine, maybe she wouldn’t have been able to get all her premed requirements and MCAT done in time to get into med-school right after graduation. Maybe she would have needed a gap year. Yeah, so what? What - just because you’re not going to get into med-school immediately after graduation, that means that you shouldn’t get advising? Why? What does that have to do with anything?</p>

20

<p>And the way to do that is to simply not provide to some students any advising at all? </p>

<p>Like I said, you don’t actually need an advisor to apply. According to the data, some MIT premeds apply sans advising.</p>

<p>So think about what that means. You say that the committee wants to ensure that students come to them in a timely fashion. Yet those students who fail to do this are probably still going to proceed to apply anyway. They’re just going to proceed without any advising at all. Is that really optimal? </p>

<p>A far better solution would be to provide advising to everybody, including the supposedly “late” people, a notion that I would actually dispute (see below). What you could tell these supposedly ‘late’ students is that, you’re late, it’s going to be a time crunch for you, but we’re still going to give you an advisor. The answer is not to simply deny advising completely to such students.</p>

<p>That’s what schools like HYPS do. Harvard premeds aren’t denied advising just because they’re “late”. If a Harvard senior, in his very last semester, decides he wants to be a premed, he can get an advisor. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This entire stream of logic presumes that all premeds are going to enter med-school right after undergrad. But this is simply not the case. The average age of entering medical students nationwide is about 24.</p>

<p>The average age of the entering medical student is 24</p>

<p>[The</a> Journal of Young Investigators :: JYI.org](<a href=“http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107]The”>http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107)</p>

<p>*Don’t medical schools look down on people who don’t go directly to medical school from college?</p>

<p>No. The average age of people starting medical school is 24,*</p>

<p>[Swarthmore</a> College :: Health Sciences Office :: Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/x8890.xml]Swarthmore”>Frequently Asked Questions - Applying to Med School :: Health Sciences Office :: Swarthmore College)</p>

<p>Hence, why should MIT be so worried about undergrads who are supposedly “late” in the premed process when numerous medical students don’t enter med-school right after undergrad anyway? </p>

<p>So let’s take the example back to the author of that article. She was denied advising because she was a junior, not a sophomore. Fine, maybe she wouldn’t have been able to get all her premed requirements and MCAT done in time to get into med-school right after graduation. Maybe she would have needed a gap year. Yeah, so what? What - just because you’re not going to get into med-school immediately after graduation, that means that you shouldn’t get advising? Why? What does that have to do with anything?</p>