Pre-med at UChicago!

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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<p>Doubting Thomas, You are correct. I am not normal, Some say I am odd, others say I am passionate, some even say exceptional. </p>

<p>I looked up the classes. Chem - Honors Chem 12100, Math - Honors calculus 16100
“300 level” is terminology from another time. Many years ago at a State College. </p>

<p>I am well aware that my post is unflattering. You question why would someone drag up an old discussion. Because the information shared over this thread and has been discussed for years and still has not been addressed properly. </p>

<p>Why do U Chicago grads have such a hard time getting accepted into any medical school?
Profs who don’t believe in A’s? Poor Student Advisors? How can a top 10 University perform so poorly in this one area. The School needs to identify who is doing it right and how they are doing it. </p>

<p>Finally, Every Parent should have a FERPA release so that the parent can help their child. That the Advisors hide behind FERPA is shameful. </p>

<p>I hope to contribute often.</p>

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<p>It’s no secret that U Chicago students traditionally have had a tougher time than others at peer schools for premed, given the rigor of the classes (as in Profs don’t just hand out A’s, although this is not as severe anymore) and the culture of the school, which encourages people to take classes because they are interesting and will provide a challenge. Of course, this attitude goes against what one must do to maximize one’s chances of getting into med school, which is protecting your GPA as much as possible by avoiding hard classes like the plague. Still, given that U Chicago’s acceptance rate should be around 77% at the moment, 30 points above the national average, I find it hard to believe that U Chicago is where “med school dreams come to die”. I admit that I didn’t go through the whole thread, so I apologize if this has all been posted before, the real purpose is to respond to YeadDadIKnow. Which brings me to…</p>

<p>“Doubting Thomas, You are correct. I am not normal, Some say I am odd, others say I am passionate, some even say exceptional.”</p>

<p>Despite what some many think, I really, REALLY don’t enjoy calling people trolls (these being people who post things with the sole purpose of irritating and getting people worked up). For one, by definition, if this happens it’s because I am irritated. Second, I don’t think that U Chicago (or any school for that matter) is a magical land full of happiness and perfection, so whenever somebody has a valid criticism and states this in a respectful and appropriate manner then I am not bothered; HOWEVER, language like the one quoted above is indicative of some ■■■■■-ish intentions. I’m willing to buy that the “300” terminology is just something that stuck to your head from your own time in college, but that first sentence of your last post is too random and seems designed to annoy to sa0209. Perhaps I’m wrong (in which case, I also apologize), you do tell an elaborate story, but that one statement alone would give away a ■■■■■.</p>

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<p>Just want to stress that if you really are a parent, then I deeply apologize for all this and am sorry for your daughter’s experience. I really wish I could edit my original post now…</p>

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<p>Speaking as a faculty member at another university who just heard the periodic “FERPA compliance talk” from the dean, let me point out that FERPA is federal law, and forbids release of anything other than directory information about students to anyone else, including parents, without the student’s permission. It isn’t fair to blame advisors for complying with the law.</p>

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<p>Sorry, big guy. Even with a FERPA consent, the advisors’ relationship is with the students, not their parents. They shouldn’t be accountable to parents. And one of the things students learn is how to use their advisors effectively. (Also, I don’t believe any of the academic advisors are bullies.)</p>

<p>For what it’s worth: (1) My kid resisted his academic advisor’s recommendations to take honors calculus and chemistry, and in the long run he STILL washed out of pre-med. It just took longer, and two miserable quarters of organic chemistry. (2) If you think a University of Chicago advisor is ever going to tell a kid not to take an appropriate, challenging course because he might get a B in it, you have no idea what the institution is like. People do not see getting As as an appropriate end in itself. That’s not going to change, I hope. (3) You really can’t blame a bad grade on taking an honors course. Widespread folklore has it that the honors courses are curved significantly higher than the regular courses. It’s perfectly likely that a student who got a C in math 161 would get a C in 151 or 152 as well. Also, I believe it’s easy to drop down from the honors course to the regular course, even relatively late in a quarter. </p>

<p>My kid, too, had a relentlessly negative CCIHP advisor, who clearly saw his role as culling the herd efficiently, not supporting and encouraging anyone. That’s something the university can and should work on.</p>

<p>It’s worth recognizing, though, that my kid’s engagement, happiness, and grades all soared after he let go of the idea that he should be going to medical school, and concentrated on what actually interested him. He won’t be going to medical school – at least not in the foreseeable future – but he is doing interesting things, helping others, and supporting himself. So he’s a winner. And if I could roll back time, I wouldn’t counsel him to tough it out in pre-med courses as long as I did.</p>

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<p>I appreciate the discussion. I am a parent. I too wish I could edit some of my post. If someone can tell how I would be grateful. I am not a ■■■■■ but I can see where you might think that. Please forgive me. Also, I may have wondered into a thread that is off topic. I will soon find out by your responses. </p>

<p>PMCM18
You are absolutely right about my opening line. I was trying to annoy SA0209. I was offended by his reply to my posting. I am brand new to posting my thoughts for anyone to read and I will have to be careful and grow a thicker skin. </p>

<p>JHS
I don’t recall calling her advisor a bully. I don’t believe he took the time to learn/know my daughter’s strengths and weaknesses, which would have provided him with insight to better advise her through her academic career. I can only guess that he used a standard formula for advising each of his students. I encouraged my daughter to meet with him at least once a quarter. She told me she tried to schedule meetings but that he was hard to contact and not receptive. When she met with him again she felt he was condescending and not helpful. </p>

<p>With all the warts I shared about her experience at UofC, she absolutely treasures her four years at UofC. She is proud of UofC, and a great ambassador. She feels that there is no finer university in the country. Despite a rough academic start my daughter finished well. I have no doubt; she will be accepted into Medical school soon. </p>

<p>MotherBear332
I don’t blame the advisor for complying with the law. I find fault that he didn’t work within the guidelines of the law. The Advisor could have shared that a FERPA Release form, signed by my daughter, would allow us to discuss my daughter’s academic plan. As far as I know there is no standardized Release Form. Some schools offer a PDF form on their websites. See the link below. The required maintenance and record keeping of FERPA Release Forms appears to be quite cumbersome and time consuming. I can see why the advisor didn’t volunteer the option of a Release Form. <a href=“http://www.marquette.edu/as/documents/FERPA_Release_Form.pdf[/url]”>http://www.marquette.edu/as/documents/FERPA_Release_Form.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>PMCM18
Back to the topic that I believe started this thread. UC needs to do a better job helping pre-med students. For that to happen, U Chicago CCIHP needs to improve. </p>

<p>How?
Identify which universities are successful.<br>
What is their process?<br>
Can the process be duplicated?<br>
Does current staff have the skill set to implement a new program?<br>
Train current staff, hire and train additional staff if needed and recruit from successful programs. </p>

<p>The students who turn to CCIHP for help need advocates.
Nothing would make me happier if UofC became the nations pre-med school of choice. </p>

<p>College Confidential is a wonderful site. I hope to be a positive contributor in the future.</p>

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<p>Yeahdadiknow-Like I said earlier, I’m really sorry of accusing you of being false. We’ve had “trolls” before who have exhibited the “1 post”, etc. qualities so I was a bit wary. I hope we can put this behind us and continue to make thoughtful posts.</p>

<p>Sorry again!</p>

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<p>Please accept my sincere apologies and thank you for reading my recent post.</p>

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<p>I have certainly heard some complaints about the (former) director of CCIHP, and I was pleased to see her dismissed several weeks ago. I have heard about her showing favortism to students that she likes and delaying submission of committee letters for students she despises. These accusations, if true, are completely unacceptable for someone whose sole responsibility is to get as many UChicago students into great medical schools.</p>

<p>Fortunately, CCIHP just hired a new director who was the former director of pre-medical advising at Yale and a former assistant director of admissions at Pritzker. I do think the University cares deeply about those applying, and that the administration is doing everything it can to improve its medical placement.</p>

<p>Some students have been unintentionally spreading misinformation about the advising office, and I feel obligated to put a stop to it.</p>

<p>Rumor: The undergraduate college has a bad relationship with UChicago’s own medical school (Pritzker).
Fact: False. After speaking with numerous CCIHP advisors, I just have to debunk this rumor. If I remember correctly, Pritzker interviewed more than 20 of all applicants from UChicago last year (about 65 seniors and alumni applied). I believe they accepted about 13 for a class of 88. 6 of them decided to matriculated. The College has an excellent relationship with Pritzker, and the director of admissions speaks highly of UChicago graduates. </p>

<p>The average GPA of UChicago students/alumni getting accepted by Pritzker is lower (a bit higher than 3.7) than the average of all accepted students (3.80). Average GPA for accepted students from other institutions is higher since the 3.80 overall GPA is skewed/deflated by UChicago graduates.</p>

<p>Rumor: UChicago advising office submits committee letters much later than other schools.
Fact: False. The deadline for submitting committee letters is different from AMCAS submission. In fact, advising offices submit their letters a lot later than applicants do for their applications. JHU submits its committee letters at the end of July and early August, just like UChicago.</p>

<p>Rumor: UChicago has a much lower medical placement rate than its peer institutions.
Fact: Once again, false. The national admission rate is about 45%. The admission rate for Brown graduates is about 80%. UChicago had a rate in the high 70’s last cycle (I believe 78% to be exact).</p>

<p>You know… if you are concerned about UChicago’s medical placement, you can simply walk in CCIHP and talk to the advisors there, like I did. If you want to know how UChicago students perform on the MCAT, ASK! Want to know the average GPA of those accepted by medical school? ASK! It is true that CCIHP can make some of the information more accessible, but please, please don’t disseminate or perpetuate anecdotal (and often misleading) information without even venturing into the advising office.</p>

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<p>I concur with Poplicola. I don’t believe we had anything like the CCHIP back when we went to school in the early 80s, but the statistics of medical school acceptance seem pretty consistent even back then. I believe all of my high school classmates that went to Chicago who applied to medical school got into top schools even with grade “deflation.” I personally got accepted to Chicago’s Pritzker but chose to attend another top school for a change of flavor. I wouldn’t give up the intense common core liberal education for anything. It has made me appreciate culture outside of medicine. In truth, I had more fun hanging out with the econ majors…</p>

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<p>Can you please provide links to the facts you have provided? </p>

<p>Specifically the schedule of submitting committee letters. I understand CCIHP notified applicants by e-mail that they would be sending out committee letters by August 31, 2012 </p>

<p>Where is this information available?
The national admission rate is about 45%. The admission rate for Brown graduates is about 80%. UChicago had a rate in the high 70’s last cycle (I believe 78% to be exact).</p>

<p>Thank you again for sharing</p>

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<p>Even though CCIHP says that it submits committee packets all at once, it does not. It does so on a rolling basis. My friend’s committee packet was submitted by August 3rd. Here is an excerpt from Johns Hopkins’ advising office:</p>

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<p>UChicago’s admission rate comes from CCIHP. It does not withhold this information if you ask the advisors there. The national admissions rate and Brown’s admissions rate both come from [Brown’s</a> health advising office](<a href=“WELCOME TO HEALTH CAREERS ADVISING | Health Careers Advising”>WELCOME TO HEALTH CAREERS ADVISING | Health Careers Advising).</p>

<p>By the way, Johns Hopkins has an admissions rate of 63% ([JHU</a> Pre-Professional Advising](<a href=“http://web.jhu.edu/prepro/health/admissions_stats.html]JHU”>Pre-Professional Advising | Student Affairs)).</p>

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<p>Along with good performance at Pritzker (13 accepts, 6 attending), UChicago has 8 students total at Hopkins Med, comparable to Brown (9), Dartmouth (9), Penn (10), and more than Northwestern (5).</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/students/academics/catalog/SOMCtlg1011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/students/academics/catalog/SOMCtlg1011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>(P. 481)</p>

<p>If anything, med school placement from UChicago seems to be improving.</p>

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<p>If you look at the powerpoints posted under “Documents” on the CCIHP website, they include some other stats about schools most applied to and UChicago’s success rate. The purpose of those slides is to encourage students to not apply solely where their friends are, but it’s still helpful info.</p>

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<p>At the 6:30 mark of the final video (Pick and Pay), there are some interesting powerpoint slides regarding UChicago’s med school stats and process.</p>

<p>I’m not sure who the speaker is in the video, but the guy is kind of annoying. There’s a lot of discussion about how competitive the med school admissions process is - and it certainly is competitive - but there’s not any lip service to the fact that hey, you’re at the University of Chicago, and you’re already amongst the best of the best - so you have a leg up to start.</p>

<p>Second, the rhetoric surrounding Pritzker is a bit strange (“they don’t want to replicate the college student body”). Harvard begets Harvard across pretty much all schools, and the same is true at Yale or Columbia. I’m not sure why the rhetoric is different at UChicago.</p>

<p>Again, I think the stats presented are fair, but the rhetoric is more discouraging rather than encouraging. This is strange, and I doubt is the similar rhetoric found at the tippy top schools.</p>

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<p>To put it another way, frankly, across all its professional schools, around 10% of the student body should come straight from UChicago’s college.</p>

<p>If you look at other top schools, I imagine about 10% of the professional’s school student body comes straight from the institution’s college. So, out of Harvard Law’s incoming class of 500 students, around 50 or so come from Harvard College. Similarly, at Columbia’s medical school, I imagine 10 or so Columbia undergrads a year go to Columbia med. </p>

<p>As an initiative and to foster strong relations between all schools of the institution, UChicago’s numbers should be comparable. Around 20 UChicago undergrads per year should be at UChicago Law, around 8-9 undergrads should be at Pritzker, etc.</p>

<p>That’s why this medical school video is a bit misleading. Many medical schools absolutely enjoy taking a healthy percentage of the class from the undergrad - look at Harvard Med or Columbia Med or Yale med, I’m sure they all have very healthy numbers from their respective colleges.</p>

<p>Interestingly, I wonder if UChicago’s improved ranking and improved selectivity will give the College a bit of a “halo” and will allow it to be viewed more positively even within the institution itself. For a while (especially in the 70s-80s-early 90s), the college was a bit backwater, and a bit neglected.</p>

<p>The reputation of having a vibrant, successful college can only increase the likelihood that UChicago’s professional schools simply take from their own backyard. In this vein, I’d imagine in 5-6 years, after Nondorf’s more well-rounded, more classically successful students have fully taken hold, UChicago undergrads will be even better represented amongst the UChicago professional schools.</p>

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<p>So, the consensus is not to take honor math/sciences classes if a student wants to do pre-med. </p>

<p>Similarly, for students that are not strong in Math & science, are they better off taking Math 131 and Physics 121 sequence to preserve GPA even if placed into Math 151 and Physics 131? Would the lower level math and/or physics be sufficient to prepare students for MCAT and med school? Also, would the less rigorous courses look bad to med school admission committee?</p>

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<p>Bump for ivyfan2’s awesome questions?</p>

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<p>I would not trust the placement results. Trust your gut feeling. I was comfortable with my fundamentals in mathematics but not physics, so I took 153 (placed out of 151 and 152) and physics 120’s. I did well in both.</p>

<p>Medical schools do not know the difference between the 150 and the 130 Calculus sequences. Same can be said about the 120 and 130 physics sequences. They look for your course load per quarter. They want you to take full course load (four courses per quarter) throughout most of your college career.</p>

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<p>No. That is not the consensus. I don’t think there is a consensus on this board regarding this issue. Keep in mind that honor courses are curved better than regular courses. The winter quarter of regular organic chemistry two years ago was curved to C+, whereas honors organic chemistry during that same quarter was curved to B. The consensus is that it is much easier to reach the average in the regular sequence, but you have to beat the average by a lot to get a good grade.</p>