<p>What math course is required for pre-med? Will calculus 1 suffice?</p>
<p>Are you talking about in college? To keep all doors open, a pre-med student should take one year of college calculus and a statistics course. Some med schools just require the calc, and other med schools don't have formal math requirements. The thing is, regardless, you need to study enough calculus for a year of college physics, which is usually a year of college calculus.</p>
<p>Calculus 1 (or AP Calc BC) should be fine.</p>
<p>the Medical schools who actually do accept AP credit are few and far between. Because you will likely not be applying ONLY to those schools you need to ignore AP calc scores because you'll have schools on your list that won't accept it.</p>
<p>The MCAT does not require any calculus, and thus you are more than able to get by with algebra based physics if your school has those courses available. </p>
<p>Most medical schools require a semester of "college math". Take Calc 1. I'd also recommend taking a semester of stats. There are a very small number of schools that actually require a year of calc. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that dependent on your major (ie Chemistry), you may be required to take more than a semester of calculus.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. My D is currently a freshman in college....guess I should have clarified that in my original post. Should she take calculus before physics or vice versa?</p>
<p>That would depend on whether the college requires it. She should ask her college pre-med advisor what she needs to do - that makes MUCH more sense than asking us. I'm pretty sure that the lab physics course that premeds took when I was in college had calculus as a pre-requisite. I'll try to ask dh tonight (he is reading MD/PHd applications this week) if he actually looks for a math score - I don't think he does, though I know he scans the GPA and science courses in general.</p>
<p>The lab physics course I took did not require calculus, so this is something that is highly dependent on school and even major w/i a school.</p>
<p>Thank-you mathmom & Bigred for your insight. Looks like she should talk to her pre-med advisor. :)</p>
<p>momoney, it is a screwy as screwy can get. Each school seems to have a different take on it. I went ahead and purchased D a 2007 MSAR (I think that's right. ;)) That has all the med school app requirements. Just by looking I think D is planning on doing what she has to do for all the Texas schools and hopefully that will be enough for others, too so she could have some other choices.</p>
<p>Here is the BC site, which gives some great advice about courses required and planning ahead:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bc.edu/schools/cas/premed/%5B/url%5D">http://www.bc.edu/schools/cas/premed/</a></p>
<p>My D's bio advisor kept telling her she should take 1st year bio, a pretty major weeder class at Berkeley, even though she has a 5 on the AP. I cannot find a singel school where she can't skip the fist year bio class and move on to the fun (also non-weeder!) classes, as long as she has a yeear of bio with lab, it doesn't matter if it is the 1st year class or an upper div one!</p>
<p>Re physics: at the local CC, there is a physics class called "Calculus Based Physics". Obviously, you need to have taken calculus at some point in time. I know a student who took it and he said that the "calculus" part consisted of easy differentiation.</p>
<p>Otherwise, the physics of my day didn't require calculus.</p>
<p>In pretty much every intro physics class (biological phys track and non-physics physical science/engineering track), there's some "calculus" but it's more hand-waving to get through to a final formula. It's pretty much integration and differentiation of polynomials, maybe a <em>little</em> bit more involved in Elec-Magnetism with Gauss' law. Again, not too complicated.</p>
<p>It isn't until the upper division physics and engineering where calculus gets used all the time, so I wouldn't worry too much.</p>
<p>My D took AP Physics (Algebra based) in HS and took Calc AB the next year. In the year she took Calculus she was tutoring another girl in Physics. She often wished that she could resort to calculus. In college I took Algebra based Physics. Calculus is not necessary, but it makes it so much easier.</p>
<p>Here is a list of med schools that require calculus (not just college math), from the SUNY-Stony Brook website. I can't vouch for the accuracy or completeness of the list, but honestly, if you have any sort of math ability and plan on med school, I would cover your behind by taking both Calc I & II.</p>
<ol>
<li>UC Irvine: 1 semester</li>
<li>Louisville: 1 semester</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins: 6 hours</li>
<li>Uniformed Services: 3 hours</li>
<li>Harvard: 2 semesters</li>
<li>U Minnesota 1 semester</li>
<li>Wash U. St. Louis: 2 semesters</li>
<li>U Nebraska: 3 hours</li>
<li>Dartmouth: 3 hours
<ol>
<li>Duke: 1 semester</li>
<li>Texas A & M: 3 hours</li>
<li>Texas Tech: 3 hours</li>
<li>Galveston: 1 semester</li>
<li>San Antonio: 3 hours</li>
<li>Dallas Southwestern: 1 semester</li>
<li>Brown: 1 semester</li>
</ol></li>
</ol>
<p>Now the question for some students is : which of those won't accept AP credit for the Calc requirement? Some will and some won't.</p>
<p>Okay, ask dh. He said APs are generally listed on the transcript. If Calculus is listed there, he doesn't care if the student didn't take it in college as well. (I didn't ask, but I'd guess the same goes for Bio esp. if you take a more advance bio course.) As for grades, he says he scans the transcript for Cs. Cs freshman year are generally forgiven as long as there are better grades in more advanced courses. Obviously, he just represents ONE med school.</p>
<p>Some schools have math placement tests that may place a student in a higher level first year calculus sequence than is required for medical school. If such a test is required, it may be difficult, though not impossible, to take a lower level calc sequence, but many premed students find a way to do it.</p>
<p>At UNC my son was placed in a much higher level of Calculus than required for med school after scoring a 5 on AP BC exam. The irony was that he only took AB Calculus due to scheduling conflicts and was tutored for the BC exam along with three others in the same predicament for 4 weeks prior to the exam by their calculus teacher. He started the higher level class but was told by his advisor to drop the class as it was really intended for math majors.</p>
<p>He wanted to take the equivalent BC class at UNC but their honor code prohibited him from doing so. He even went to math department to try to get an exception but was unable to do so. Apparently if you have tested and shown proficiency in a subject it violates the honor code to take a class that is below that level for credit.</p>
<p>I'm not sure how he plans to handle things if taking a calculus class "in college" is a hard requirement.</p>
<p>Thanks again everyone for your input. It is very helpful.<br>
Art--A special thanks for listing those medical schools. "D" is likely looking at the Uniformed Services as she is currently in the AROTC. This leads me to another question:
I think she is doing OK in her first year at college, but I know she is going to have to kick it up a notch. How worried should she be with a "C" in chem her first semester and a "B" in bio? Also, she has taken 2 mid-terms this semester. Aced the first one, but scored 5% below the average on yesterdays. She is studying her booty off and seems pretty inconsistent. She called me in tears (no wait....hysteria) last night because she is so used to being a straight A student. I have no idea what to tell her other than to keep plugging forward and don't look back. It's only one test. How can a 4.7+ gpa student and 4th ranked in her high school class be having such a difficult time? She is studying 20+ hours a week. Is this normal?</p>
<p>How can a 4.7+ gpa student and 4th ranked in her high school class be having such a difficult time? It could be a variety of things. The college courses could be substantially harder than the high school courses. The pace may be faster. The depth of knowledge required could be higher. Insight and extrapolation could be more important than regurgitation. My guess is it is all of the above and more. </p>
<p>She is studying 20+ hours a week. Is this normal? I see nothing abnormal there. I believe most schools will tell you it's 2 hours outside for every one hour inside. 16 hours = 32 hours outside studying. Lab sciences and intensive writing courses are probably 50% more. And remember, pre-meds are by and large "gunners". </p>
<p>The key to this is not to blame the course or the courseload . As a pre-med /neuroscience major it's not going to get better. The typical freshman bio and chem classes are the pre-med weed out courses at many schools. Some worse than others. I'm not familiar with where USC fits on this scale. (It's happening this same way at D's school. They are dropping like crazy. 20% of the first bio class dropped the course so as not to have a poor grade. Over 50% of those remaining had grades below a B.)</p>
<p>Is she taking advantage of office hours , study groups, mentoring or tutoring, writing centers, and any and all other aids available to her? If not, she needs to do so post haste. </p>
<p>Not to put extra pressure in the situation but y'all need to be realistic. Med school admissions is grade driven and MCAT driven. If a student doesn't test that well then the GPA needs to be as high as possible. </p>
<p>There are things she can do if she is unsatisfied with her grades. Concentrate on her studies to the exclusion of all but required things. Ask for help. Space out her courses in the most advantageous fashion (if possible). Good luck.</p>