For required courses such as bio,chem, and phys, does it matter what kind of bio,chem, phys you take as long as you take the corresponding lab?
I mean like taking a bio course other than general biology or another chem course other than gen chem.
I’m not really understanding the question. If your question is can you take a higher level course because you have AB/IB credit for gen chem/gen bio, then the answer is generally yes, although in addition, organic chem is always required anyway, and biochem is often a requirement. If the question is can you take a lower level chem for dummies type class, then the answer is generally no. The college’s pre-health advising office can provide more detailed help, as each med school can have its own nuances in terms of requirements.
It depends.
Most medical school will allow a student to substitute an upper level bio with lab for an intro level class. But exact requirements will vary by school. You should consult the MSAR or the admission pages for every med school your child is interested in applying to in the future.
Chem requirements are more complicated. Your child cannot sub another chem class for ochem or biochem. Some schools will allow a student to substitute analytic, inorganic or physical chemistry for general chem if they have AP/IB credit for general chem. But again, you will need to check with specific schools.
@skieurope @WayOutWestMom If you don’t complete all the requirements, does it mean you don’t get in?
Well, there are many reasons why one might not get an acceptance. But not completing requirements would lead to one to not even being considered. That’s why they are called requirements.
^^Exactly.
All course requirements must be completed before a student is allowed to enroll in medical school.
“I mean like taking a bio course other than general biology or another chem course other than gen chem.”
The prerequisites for med school are all basic science classes for any other classes, maybe even prerequisites for higher science classes. Not sure how can you skip those and find replacements. Please list intended substitutes for comments.
@WayOutWestMom @skieurope each school is different. In fact, Keck has no course pre-req.
It’s called competency-based admission.
Read about it here: https://www.aamc.org/download/308462/data/admissionsinitiativesummary.pdf
And USC is far from the only school that has no specific course requirements. Neither does Duke, UMIch, Oakland-Beaumont or several other schools. In fact, all allopathic medical schools are transitioning to competency based admissions to allow students more leeway in fulfilling admission requirements through interdisciplinary science classes, often under non-traditional course names.
The fact USC says there are no specific course requirements, doesn’t mean that you can take whatever classes you wish or take them as P/F classes. If you consult the MSAR, you’ll find that USC has a rather lengthly list of “strongly recommended” coursework (in med school speak, strongly recommended = required) that successful applicants will have, including coursework in genetics, organic chemistry, biochemistry, inorganic chemistry, cellular biology, molecular biology, sociology, physics, ethics and Spanish.
Competency-based admissions for med school has not bearing on that fact that individual colleges are unlikely to allow students to take upper level electives in a discipline without first taking the requisite introductory level classes. (Unless you have advanced standing thru AP/IB credits or pass college-specific placement exams.)
@WayOutWestMom given what you said, does changing to a non-science major and not taking any more science courses mean that it’s over for you under competency based admissions? Will med schools who don’t have any formal, outlined prereqs toss an applicants’ application into the trash given that he/she has not taken all the prereqs?
Competency based admission is still evolving so admission policies ares still evolving. But competency based admission places the burden on the applicant to prove they have achieved mastery in a variety of science, social science and mathematical disciplines that are currently covered by pre-reqs courses.
From what I’ve seen, the bar to establishing competency in a particular subject area for applicants who have not taken the traditional pre-reqs classes is pretty high. It’s things like applicant “has done long-term/multi-year research in biochemistry of cell signaling” or applicant “has developed a new statistical analysis method for identifying novel mutations in fruit flies” or applicant “has published peer-reviewed journal article on ______.”
And just because a med school no longer requires specific courses for admission consideration that doesn’t mean they don’t have admission requirements. They do. In fact, there’s an argument to be made that the flexible policy schools have expectations that their applicants will have even a deeper, more sophisticated grasp of the scientific knowledge base than those with traditional pre-reqs.
Non-science majors who do not take the traditional pre-reqs are pretty much destined straight for the round bin.
@WayOutWestMom round bin meaning trash? Can you elaborate more on the “has done multi-research” paragraph? So does a flexible policy make it harder for me to get in?
Round bin = trash can
Competency based admission policies were originally developed because so many students are coming into college with AP/IB credits or dual enrollment coursework that gave them advanced academic standing in various sciences. Competency based admission allows these students to skip the intro level classes and take upper level coursework to fulfill admission requirements instead. It also allows students to substitute in-depth, long-term research in a particular area for conventional coursework in the same area. (For example, 2-3 years of hands-on biochemistry research with increasing levels of responsibility in the lab plus an independent senior thesis on a biochemistry topic may fulfill the biochem requirement under a competency-based admission system.)
The flexible policy doesn’t make it harder to gain admission, but it does place the burden of proof on the student to demonstrate they have achieved mastery through significant achievements if they opt to not take the required & recommended coursework.
If you major in something else than science you have to be excellent in that major AND take the pre-reqs or equivalents (usually, higher level classes in each of the subjects represented in the pre-reqs.)
@WayOutWestMom so if you decide to change majors but conduct research in these areas required for competency, would that be ok?
Extremely unlikely verging on impossible. You’d need to have extensive, in-depth research in several different scientific disciplines. That just isn’t ever going to happen.
@WayOutWestMom I’ve also heard that you could take the MCAT instead to demonstrate competency.
Not true.
The MCAT is the great equalizer used to compare students from a wide variety of colleges, but a good MCAT score cannot substitute for having actual pre-req coursework and having done well in the pre-reqs.
Applicants with poor GPAs but high MCAT scores do not fare well in med school admissions.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/factstablea24.html
@WayOutWestMom then why did you even mention research as a form of competency? I feel that you take everything I say and just negate. Honestly the comments you make are not helpful more just hypercritical.