I was accepted early to Harvard and I got a likely letter from Yale in late January inviting me to YES-W. I want to major in molecular biology. I know people say that asking CCers for advice is wrong, but getting honest answers from students who attend either school is challenging in person due to their desire to recruit. I visited both campuses last year, but I still came away from the tours as a little skeptical of the admissions propaganda. I would appreciate if someone could help give some empirical reasons for a Pre-Med to attend either school.
Thank you,
Starchow
There is no significant difference between Harvard and Yale, and what is offered, or expected, of students interested in pre-med courses.
That said – and I’ve posted this elsewhere – it’s very difficult to get an A in some pre-med courses at HY, and some students interested in pre-med may actually be better off attending another college that has less rigorous standards.
For example, last semester my daughter, who just graduated from Harvard, took LS2, which is one of the courses Harvard students thinking of going to medical school take (http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/courses-exams/course-catalog/life-sciences-2-evolutionary-human-physiology-and-anatomy).
However, as it’s Harvard (and this occurs at Yale as well), the course was jammed packed with things you wouldn’t be asked to do at another college, like identifying every bone in the human body by week two in the course, something my wife didn’t have to do until medical school! Yes, it’s a fabulous experience, but because HY professors have higher expectations of their student’s, few students actually get A’s in the course. So, another student coming out of a flagship state college, which doesn’t have as high expectations or the resources of HY – read $$$ – may have a higher GPA and be in a better position for medical school than a student coming out of HY with a B or a B+ in a course like LS2. Ditto with other pre-med courses at HY. Fortunately for my daughter, she got an A- in LS2 and was happy with the grade, as the course was the most demanding course she took in her four years at Harvard (and this is coming from a student who graduated Phi Beta Kappa). So, whatever school you ultimately choose, you should go in with your eyes wide open.
Yale is better in the sciences.
@ricck1 - Could you elaborate a bit on that response?
Compared to Harvard, anyway, Yale is generally regarded better in the sciences and premed, particularly biology. Harvard does not have as regarded as strong premed program compared to some of the other ivies. All of ivies are fairly strong in the sciences.
@ricck1 - There is no doubt that Yale is a fantastic school for someone who is looking for a strong premed program, but international rankings directly contradict your statement that " Yale is generally regarded better in the sciences and premed, particularly biology". In fact, it’s the opposite.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/biological-sciences-rankings
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2013/biological-sciences#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/life-sciences
http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldLIFE2014.html
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/physical-sciences
http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldSCI2014.html
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2014/physics#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2014/chemistry#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=
It’s really a moot point for most undergraduates - both schools have excellent programs, and students who are lucky enough to have a choice between the two should be looking at more than just rankings.
You should definitely go to Visitas and Bulldog days to try to get more of a feel for which campus/environment you would prefer. However, I would agree with gibby about flagship state schools if you’re really interested in medicine (although I realize almost no kid will take this advice no matter how wise it is).
In terms of whether Harvard or Yale is better for premed, it’s a toss-up. It boils down to wherever you are going to be more comfortable at and therefore probably do better academically. If you are looking for a nurturing environment, then Harvard is probably not for you. That being said, my daughter is thriving at Harvard and could not imagine herself at other school.
If your question is Harvard or Yale for pre-med AND if you have it paid for, then that is outstanding.
However, if this is going to put you into debt, my advice is go to a state school
or a less prestigious school on merit based scholarships (which I assume you would easily qualify for if you got Yale and Harvard acceptances).
Why?
Because unless you want to be a renowned MD PhD researcher or something like that, going to a supercompetitive school and getting your GPA dashed against the rocks competing with other superbrains may harm your long term goal of getting into medical school.
Plus, your salary as an MD will be the same regardless of whether you go to an Ivy or a Podunk state school - not to mention considerably less debt to pay off.
To further illustrate my point, read chapter 2 of Malcolm Gladwells book David and Goliath about the pre-med girl who went to Brown instead of U of Maryland.
- see link below:
http://www.ash.nl/ftpimages/401/download/download_1009994.pdf
Don’t get me wrong - if going to an Ivy League school is your dream then go for it.
These are just some observations by me - someone on the other side of things.
Once you get in Harvard is not super competitive. It is extremely nurturing. The help at Harvard is unreal. Harvard is also much much better at the sciences than Yale. That is why Yale is spending millions of dollars to improve their science programs. Just look at CS 50 that Yale has had to borrow from Harvard. Also the average gpa at Harvard is about 3.7 while at a state school like Berkeley it is about 3.2. This can have an impact on your future. That is reason enough to choose Harvard over a state school
@Nerdyparent Very interesting post—and chapter from Malcolm Gladwell’s book! Thanks for posting this!