<p>I have a D who claims she wants to be a surgeon. She's a teen and I think she is choosing this field partly because hospitals make me, her mom, ill.</p>
<p>Since she has no one at home to advise her, could someone please comment on 1) whether it's better to have a school with or without a premed committee? (I've seen heated debate here.) Also 2) Can we please make a list of schools WITHOUT committees? </p>
<p>As a family, we prefer women's LACs, at this point. We can be persuaded . . . .</p>
<p>Surgery is tough field. Long work weeks (90+ hours in pretty common), long hours standing your feet, and a long post-med school training period (5 years residency plus another 1-3 years of fellowship training), lots of malignant residency programs….she’ll probably change her mind about surgery should she get that far. And if she doesn’t….there’s a critical shortage of surgeons in many regions of this country. They’re desperately needed.</p>
<p>RE: premed committees</p>
<p>There are advantage and disadvantages to a premed committee. </p>
<p>On the disadvantage side—You have a small group of people who have a huge amount of control over your future. If you’re top student at your school (think PBK, summa cum laude, honors & awards in your major, etc.), the committee won’t be an issue. You’ll usually get a excellent rec from the committee. If you’re on the margins of being admissable stats-wise to med school–that’s where the issue is. Some/many premed committees will deny these students letters because they don’t want to lower the school’s percentages of students admitted to med schools. (Bragging rights and future enrollment is at stake with that percentage….) These on-the-margin students might be fine candidates for some med schools and have a good chance at gaining an acceptance at those schools, but will will never get the chance because the premed committee doesn’t perceive them to be strong enough candidates.</p>
<p>The lack of committee letter can be a red flag to admissions committees. Applying without one and providing one’s own LORs can’t always overcome the perceived black mark of not having one.</p>
<p>One other small disadvantage–committee letters tend to come out later (usually mid-August to mid-September). Since an applicant’s file is not complete until the letter arrives and adcomms don’t review incomplete files, it will delay secondaries and interview invitations. This more an inconvenience than a disadvantage. Some schools start sending IIs in mid-August and watching other people get IIs while your committee hasn’t sent your letter…irritates and upsets some students.</p>
<p>On the advantage side– a good premed committee know how to best “package” your student’s accomplishments, to present her achievements in the most favorable light and to downplay her weaknesses. They will also explain her performance within the context of the school’s academics. If your D will be attending a school where there are a lot of pre-meds and/or grading curves are tough, the committee can explain why that B in Ochem isn’t as bad as it looks comparatively speaking. </p>
<p>A premed committee will also offer mock interviews to permit a student to rehearse for the real thing. (Some schools’ career centers do this even if there isn’t a premed committee.)</p>
<p>And a minor advantage, since committees require students to initiate the committee process early the year they apply (typically March), it forces the student get her individual recommendations gathered, and get her personal statement/essays/EC list done in a timely fashion for early submission to AMCAS.</p>
<p>~~~</p>
<p>I had one D apply to med from a school that didn’t offer premed letters and one who did. Both were successful applicants and both are now medical students. D2 didn’t feel her premed committee added anything “extra” to her process–and she went to top pre-med school known for its success in placing students into med school. (But then again, D2 was one of those academic superstars that premed committees love……)</p>
@WAY0UTWESTMOM, Do you think the committees are usually present in public universities than in private ones ? How do we find out which universities have the premed committees?
@pleasant
The way you find out if a school has a committee is to ask. Also look at the college’s pre-med advising page–often committees will be mentioned there.
Both public and private universities & colleges have pre-health committees. It’s really a school-by-school thing.
@pleasant
Doing Committee Interviews and writing Committee Letters is a costly process which a number of schools can’t afford.
Publics seem to be less likely to write CLs. We were happy that our son’s school, UAlabama, does write them.
Thank you everyone for this frank discussion. I’m most grateful. @WayOutWestMom thank you especially for taking the time to spell out all of these details. On a slightly different topic, but somewhat related, my D now is feeling that she’s not smart enough to go into medicine. To my mind, if she doesn’t want to go, that’s fine, but she doesn’t seem to be making her decision on that basis. She seems to be intimidated by the aura of smartness around doctors. I certainly believe that doctors are smart! And certainly must be devoted to their studies to get through school. But I’m thinking: she’s smart too, at least as smart as most physicians I have personally met.
My question is: how do you encourage a teen to see herself accurately and allow herself to move forward when feeling this kind of self-doubt? A doubt that might be part and parcel of the world around her?
Any thoughts? Specifically about medicine. TY
Getting into med school is not all about being smart; it’s more about having a super strong work ethic and persistence. There is certain base level of intelligence and science/math aptitude needed to by successful in the pre-reqs, but if a person has that, then it’s really becomes about wanting it bad enough to work however hard is required and do whatever is needed to both be academically successful and fulfill the numerous additional EC expectations for med school. (In part this why med school adcomms love ex-military applicants. They have a “can do” attitude and are used to hard work.)
The part about wanting it bad enough is not something you can instill in her. It has to come from within.
There is no one path to med school. Every individual’s journey will be different. And there is no rule that says your D has to start out as a pre-med in college if she wants to go to med school. She can always choose that route at a later date.
I would suggest you encourage your daughter to be open to all possibilities. There are very few 17 or 18 year olds who really know what they want to do with their life. (And even fewer who really, really know what a physician’s life is really like.) I would encourage her to follow her strengths in college, choose a major she enjoys and will do well in, and explore her options. She could try a few pre-med courses to see how she does in them. She could volunteer at healthcare site–like a nursing home or free clinic or hospice center–to see if she would enjoy being around/ministering to sick, chronically, ill, the demented & elderly, the mentally ill and the dying (her future patients). None of that requires a full-on commitment to applying to med school. More of exploring her options.
Also remind her that there are careers open to her that she hasn’t even heard of yet. Or possibly haven’t even been invented yet. Also there are dozen and dozens of healthcare careers–and only 1 of them requires med school.
Fwiw, neither of my kidlets started as pre-meds in college. Both majored in male-dominated, atypical for pre-meds fields (physics, mathematics, cognitive science). Both decided on medicine as a career around the time of their senior years of college; both due to specific life experiences that were different for each of them.
Thank you @WayOutWestMom This is helpful and full of important wisdom. I will probably do all that you’ve suggested. For your kids who decided as late as senior year to do medicine, could you please describe that path? Thank you.
As I said, every path is different and there are multiple ways for a late decider to prepare to apply to med school.
Searchable database of post baccs here:
https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/index
Select career changer as the program focus.
Students who were science majors in college and who have a strong GPA, but don’t have all the pre-reqs completed can usually take their missing sciences/math at a community college post-graduation without it substantially hurting their chances for med school admission.
Delay graduation, a second degree, late change of majors. A college senior can postpone graduation or apply for a second degree or add a new major to remain at her college for an extra year or two to complete any needed pre-reqs. And while completing pre-reqs, get involved in the expected ECs.
Science majors who have completed all the pre-reqs can take a gap year to prep for the MCAT and develop the ECs expected by med schools. Once they have a MCAT score and sufficient clinical exposure, they can apply whenever they feel ready. In fact, gap years to enhance ECs are very common even among students who have pre-meds since Day 1 of college.
Any combination of the above.
I know students who have utilized all of these approaches–and they were all accepted into med school.
Wow! This is priceless information. I can’t thank you enough. For me the most difficult thought of her even thinking about this path was the aura of inflexibility. I felt like she had to get onto the premed escalator and there was no getting off, or if you did it might be disastrous. This makes me feel like she can still do some exploring and, if she decides to, can come back to this path later.
Thank you!! Thank you so much, @WayOutWestMom .
At the med school my daughters attend about 1/3 of student matriculate into med school directly from undergrad; about 1/3 matriculate after taking 1-2 gap years after graduation and about 1/3 are true non-traditional students—students who have been out of college for 4 or more years and have usually had other careers.
D2’s current housemate graduated in 2012 with degree in human geography, worked after graduation for National Geographic, then decided to explore health careers. She took gen chem at a CC at night/weekends while working, shadowed physicians and nurse midwives/nurse practitioners and then enrolled in a formal post-bacc last summer. She’s already been accepted to med school for fall 2016.
I’ve met a oncology resident who was a ordained minister with a divinity degree who had worked as assistant pastor for 10 years before starting med school. I also know a former high school chemistry teacher who after she had taught for 15 years and her kids were in their teens decided to go to med school. (She’s now a pediatrician.)
At the local med school over the last 5 years the school has accepted non-traditional students from a wide range of professions, including: MBA businesspersons; teachers; engineers; computer programmers; lawyers/paralegals; PhD research scientists; nurses/paramedics/healthcare workers; pharmacists; lab technicians; public health agency employees; military–both enlisted and officers (include one former Special Forces); religious missionaries; Peace Corp and other overseas NGO volunteers; police officers and firefighters; and all sorts of officer workers.
Every person who goes to med school follows a unique path and has their own story to tell. Even my daughters who ended up in the same place (in med school) got there by following very different paths. Why? Because they’re different people with different interests and different strengths.
Thank you, again, @WAY0UTWESTMOM. I’m sure that this information will also help others on this forum. Thank you for sharing this. Besides, it’s just so interesting. Thank you.