<p>Hi guys, </p>
<p>I've been doing research lately about going to college with the aim of going to Med School and have heard a lot about these so called "weed out classes" and colleges "weeding" students out from the pre med track. Can someone explain this whole thing to me? How exactly does that process work and at what colleges?</p>
<p>Thank You!!</p>
<p>weed out classes usually refer to the lower division science and math course work required for medical schools, such as general chemistry, organic chemistry, introductory biology, introductory physics, and calculus. All the term weed out means is that normally these courses are taught in such a way where only those who are truly dedicated to the sciences, learning and working hard will be able to succeed in them. They generally, but not always give out less A grades than other courses in the same university.</p>
<p>This would be present at any 4-year university. </p>
<p>Since any student can say that they are premed as a frosh, and many/most do not have what it takes to become a doctor, schools weed out the weaker students as quickly as possible to force those students to quickly choose another career goal. </p>
<p>Weeding may seem heartless, but it is actually the opposite. Why let a student continue on a path that will lead nowhere? </p>
<p>Most, if not all, schools weed. They weed by tightly limiting the number of A’s given out, and by not dumbing down the curriculum just so students will get good grades. </p>
<p>The premed prereqs are tough…year of Bio, year of Chem, year of OChem, year of Physics, and so forth. These classes are also (usually) taken by STEM majors who are also being weeded. </p>
<p>You keep starting threads, but provide little info. What are your stats? I think you are instate for Calif (the worst state for premeds).</p>
<p>The better program will put such a class right in the first semester of the freshman year. That way derailed pre-meds will not spend too much time on the track that was not meant for them. Process is very easy. You simply do not make a good grade in this class and realize that the whole idea of going to Med. School is not for you. It is very different from school to school. There is no general class that does it. In many programs it is Orgo. In D’s program it was very first Bio. It was taught by 3 profs simulteniously in the classroom at every lecture, teaching their own subspecialty. Students are advised not to skip first Bio class despite of “5” in AP Bio. Good for those who listen (my D. did), since the other Bio classes are based on this first Bio class. It went thru AP Bio material in the first 2 weeks and them it moved on. The lab and reports were absolutely cruel and well known in D’s Honors’ dorm. Mnay Honors kids gor derailed by this class. But later D. discovered that other Bio classes were even harder. Togh / Easy depends a lot on your personal ability, your HS and your UG program. D’s easiest class was Gen. Chem and that “earned” her position of Supplemental Instructor - the best job on campus. After first Bio, not many fell out of pre-med track, since only strongest survived or persistant decided to move on and adjusted their working habits upwards.
It is a great idea to weed out the weak and unsure. No matter how hard UG is, the Med. School academics and clinicals is only for the strongest in all aspects, mentally, emotionally, physically. </p>
<p>Mom2collegekids – just wondering why California is the worst home state for pre-meds?</p>
<p>California is the worst because it has lots and lots of pre-meds, but not enough seats to accommodate them all. CA medical schools have among the highest GPA/MCAT averages in the country; other CA programs reserve seats for students who are dedicated to serving in specific medically undrserved areas of the state. Almost 2/3rd of CA residnets end going out of state for med school.</p>
<p>CA pre-meds are getting accepted at many Medical Schools in very disproportionalte numbers, including being the most represented in some classes (I believe that D’s Medical School class has the most from CA, but Berkeley was listed as the most represented, this is not my belief, this is fact). D. has bumped on CA kids all thru her interview process and she interviewed only in Midwest. Check the list of accepted at many schools, like U of Mich (as one example). They are as unlucky as presented above.</p>
<p>…I meant to say they they are NOT as unlucky as it may seem.</p>
<p>^That is because there are so many high stat CA applicants (as previously stated by Way) who HAVE to leave CA to go to school. The vast majority of these high stat applicants would love to stay in state but are not able to do so. UCLA alone produces more premeds each year than there are seats available in CA med schools. To make matters worse, UCSF, UCLA, and UC Irvine do not have an instate bias, and UC Davis and UC Riverside are mission specific. </p>
<p>On the other hand, being from CA and having to go OOS for med school is not a barrier to returning to CA upon graduating. 10% of S’s class (including S) was from CA and they all matched back in CA, most probably carrying both some added debt from having to go OOS and never to be used again winter clothes.</p>
<p>"10% of S’s class (including S) was from CA " - 10% is NOTHING. I believe that my D’s class has over 50%. I really do not know except for 2 facts: Berkeley is the most represente UG in her class and I have never heard of any of her friends NOT being from CA. </p>
<p>Getting back to OP, I can remember S stating that on his first day in college he attended lecture in a Gen Chem course with approx. 100-200 other students. His school offered 3 maybe 4 other of the exact same Gen Chem courses during the term taught by different PhDs with each filled totally or partially. So there was big demand for Gen Chem. S’s was a totally filled course. When PhD walked in, S reported PhD’s first question to class was “How many of you are here because you’re premed?” S indicated that it seemed like everyone’s hand went up. Certainly not all students taking a Gen Chem sequence are premed, but, if I had to guess, most were and less than 10% of all those students ever made it to med school. And if Gen Chem didn’t weed them out, I’ll bet that OChem changed a lot of premeds life pathways.</p>
<p>Miami: The later posts in the thread seemed to turn away from OP into discussion about why CA premeds have to go out of state. I was simply trying to turn it back to that although it may be true that most CA premeds attend med school OOS, it’s not like they never can come back. They do. I don’t doubt that different OOS med schools accept CA students in different numbers (both higher/lower than S’s), but it wasn’t the point of my post. I apologize if my post was confusing.</p>
<p>D2 attended an undergrad know for producing pre-meds. Her joke that eveyone was a pre med during freshman orientation. By winter break after gen chem 1 grades came out, everyone was an econ major; by the following fall and after gen chem 2 & calc 2 grades came out, everyone was a sociology major.</p>
<p>In regard to specifically Gen Chem and Physics, at D’s UG there was a wide range of the first Gen. Chem. and Physics. They were for different majors, but anybody could take whatever. Engineers definitely did not take what pre-meds were taking, that would not be enough for the engineering majors. My D. focused more on Bio and Neuro classes, so she took Gen. Chem and Physics that were acceptable by Med. School, what I am trying to say is that she was not shooting for the stars with these classes. Worked perfectly, these were not her “weed” out classes and Gen. Chem. specifically was by far the easiest science class which however, completely satisfied what was needed for the MCAT.<br>
My advice is that if UG has a wide range of classes, then consider your set of Med. Schools and go with your pre-med advisor advice, unless you have a personal interest in some class. Again, translation of this is that pre-meds do not need to take a calc based Physics, unless their Med. School specifically requires it or they have personal interest in it. </p>
<p>Long ago, 3 of the 4 required general science classes I took began with the " introduce yourself to the person to your left and to your right. Only one of you is going to med school." They wanted to psych kids out and it worked. </p>
<p>There are much more going on than psyching them out. The very top kids have to adjust to college level, HS does not teach high enough level of academics to prepare them to college, including the most rigorous private HSs. Kids who did not catch this demand of adjusting up at college derail from their original goal. Psyching out or not is another layer of pressure (I would say, artificially created and absolutely not needed, there is enough of real pressure going on). On the other thought, emotional toughness is required at Med. School, no doubt about it. So, it is a good idea to put as much pressure on pre-meds as possible to insure the survival of the fittest. </p>
<p>Doctoring is by no means the end all and be all of demanding professions, but that said, they definitely want to see if you can handle the pressure and are committed. In med school we often had multiple exams in one day. Why? Certainly not just to see if you learned the material, but also to see if you could handle the pressure. They intentionally do these things as a means of sorting. After the tests the grades were posted on a hallway bulletin board next to your name. Everyone knew exactly where they stood and where everyone else did as well. </p>
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<p>I agree…and I think Gen Chem and Biology weed right from the start. </p>
<p>“In med school we often had multiple exams in one day.”
" After the tests the grades were posted on a hallway bulletin "
-These 2 certainly are not applicable to every Med. School. D. (4th year) has never had multiple exams in one day. And all their exams are p / f, so nothing to post, since if they fail they have to re-take (I have no idea how many time) until they pass. There is nobody who dropped out of D’s class, so my asusmption is that everybody must have passed and by now everybody took Step 1, since they are about to apply to residencies. I also am not aware of anybody having a gap year which seems to be a common thing at other Med. Schools. So, it appear that Med. Schools are different, when it is time for you to choose, choose your Med. School carefully, programs are different and students are somwhat different also.</p>