premed at Caltech or MIT (got off from waitlist)

Colleges and Universities A-Z California Institute of Technology
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<p>hi all!</p>

<p>There have been numerous threads of this sort, but I thought it would be useful to make a new one, since I have slightly different goals than the typical pre-med :)</p>

<p>I would ultimately like to go into medical research rather than clinical practice, but I do want to go to medical school in order to have a better background in physiology and a larger-scale picture of how the human body works. Thus thinking about MD/PhD programs, although parents (both went to UCSF for med school, dad was in UCSF/ Berkeley MD/PhD program but only got the MD) have been strongly discouraging it ("a waste of time," "redundant")</p>

<p>I understand that both MIT and Caltech are less-than-ideal schools for getting high GPAs or getting into medical school with the least amount of work, but I am more interested in getting a solid education than getting into med school at any cost. But! I am pretty scared by Caltech stories of getting "flunked in" and having to give up the dream of medical school due to low GPA...so while MIT is surely also hard, I can't imagine that it is as bad as Caltech, if people describe its difficulty that way >.<</p>

<p>I'm worried the math and physics required in the core, because while it sounds like most people get through it, getting Cs (or maybe even Bs, if I got straight Bs all the time) would not be a good way to get into medical school.</p>

<p>Anyway, back to the purpose of this post. I really liked Caltech during PFW (houses, people, food, weather, research, tunnels) and there are some things I really don't like about MIT (not completely merit based admissions, maybe getting lost in the crowd, weather <- hah), but if picking Caltech <em>likely</em> precludes medical school, I don't think the houses, food, weather, people and tunnels would be worth it.</p>

<p>A sidenote: strength of Caltech's biology department / biology research? I know MIT has a ton of cancer research, which is what I eventually want to do, but if Caltech has biology research in immunology & protein degradation, that would probably be just as good. (Not into neurons or developmental biology though :)</p>

<p>Thank you so much! I have until May 26 to decide. Please don't tell me to pick MIT just because Caltech had 8 too many people matriculate. :P</p>

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<p>It sounds like you are in a very similar situation to me for next year. I also want to go into medical research, in the field of cancer, and have very little interest in being a practitioner. For one, I have no bedside manner.</p>

<p>I have at various times considered an MD/PhD program, on and off for years, but am not staking my life on admission to medical school. I am attending Caltech next year, because their biology department is far from lacking in any regard, and I more strongly value a complete education, and though I cannot speak to specific research topics, but as I understood from PFW there is quite a breadth to research going on there.</p>

<p>Also, though I am not an expert in admissions, I thank that admission to MD/PhD programs is somewhat of an amalgamation of entrance to Medical school and Grad school, which could help to mitigate borderline grades. Then again, I may be wrong. Also, remember that Caltech has P/F Frosh, while your first year at MIT is ABC/NR, so you still have grades (softer grades, but still).</p>

<p>While it is harder to get onto medical school from Caltech, people still do it every year, so it’s not impossible. They had a webinar at some point in the past months that covered that, you might call the admissions office and ask for a copy, or the number of a current doctor that attended Caltech who would be willing to speak with you on the subject.</p>

<p>Good luck on your decision!</p>

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<p>I agree w/ lordofnarf.</p>

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<p>thanks for the replies :)</p>

<p>opinions of current students would be helpful ^_^</p>

<p>(although, at this point, i guess i just have to pick for myself rather than getting more opinions…aiee)</p>

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<p>Neither Caltech nor MIT really suffer from grade inflation. Whether it is easier to get into med school from MIT or from Caltech, I don’t know. It’s probably not easy from either.</p>

<p>I don’t really know if there are any current students that post here that are interested in medical school, and I also don’t know how well they would be able to compare the curriculum at Caltech and MIT given that they don’t attend MIT. </p>

<p>I think lordofnarf’s suggestion of talking to admissions might be useful, especially asking for some way to talk to Caltech students involved in the medschool process. I also think lordofnarf has the right attitude of “interested but not staking my life on” admission to medical school. If you do really well here you’ll have no problem getting into med school, but there is no way to predict if you’ll be able to do really well or not.</p>

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<p>In regards to grades, life will be tough at both MIT and Caltech. (However, if you are terrible at and/or hate physics, MIT will probably be easier, due to the lack of core.) Also, there isn’t really any research at Caltech related directly to cancer. I’m not a biologist, but the stuff closest to cancer research seems to be some work on the cell cycle (which is actually intended for work with HIV) and some other work on DNA replication. If there are any Bio majors on here who believe I’m mistaken, feel free to let me know. </p>

<p>On the other hand just from looking at their website, MIT has an “Institute for Integrated Cancer Research.” I am almost definitely sure that there isn’t this high a level of commitment to cancer research at Caltech. But then again, you may end up finding other parts of biology interesting.</p>

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<p>Well, Mark Davis in chemical engineering more or less cured cancer with his nanoparticles. But that’s not really all that biology related.</p>

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<p>What about Niles Pierce’s programmable molecules? That’s also really important for cancer.</p>

<p>[Dances</a> with DNA](<a href=“Caltech Magazine”>Caltech Magazine)</p>

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<p>So…I know this thread is about two months old, but I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies :slight_smile: (It bugs me when there are threads without the resolution posted :stuck_out_tongue: )</p>

<p>“But then again, you may end up finding other parts of biology interesting.”</p>

<p>^That is really true; I had never actually done any lab work in developmental biology but then at USABO I got to dissect some zebrafish embryos and it was totally fascinating. I think I would like being a doctor, but there are many other careers I would also consider/ probably be happy doing.</p>

<p>I felt really pressured to accept the spot from MIT when I visited, because everyone I met there asked me “Have you decided to go here yet?” and “I think MIT is a better school for you than Caltech” without asking what I wanted from college, as did my friends. Caltech people I’ve met in real life or from cc always seem more balanced in portraying Caltech’s positives and negatives than MIT people did for MIT. (Haha, way for me to make a very unbalanced statement >.<)</p>

<p>Too bad I picked MIT, I don’t want to go there anymore/ my parents probably won’t let me because it’s far away, cold, and big ): I got sent all of the Caltech registration forms and I think the waitlist was already closed before I told them I wasn’t coming (May 13 vs. May 27), but I think I lost my chance, now that it’s two months out :'(</p>

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<p>I know someone who switched pretty late in the game. If you want to go here you should call admissions and talk to them. I’m sure they will be accommodating.</p>

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<p>you did usabo? you must be smart</p>

<p>come to caltech :D</p>

<p>and don’t be afraid of the core
it’s actually not as bad as people say,
as long as you don’t procrastinate like i did all of second term</p>

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<p>apparently the director is on vacation, so i talked to Ray Prado, associate director, and he said that i already declined their offer so the class is closed</p>

<p>he didn’t really seem interested in listening to my story, so it’s probably a lost cause. i mentioned my parents’ unwillingness to send me anywhere besides Caltech but he said that’s a problem within the family, not Caltech’s problem :&lt;/p>

<p>is there any point in calling again once the director comes back? the associate director said he thought he would be back on Aug 4, which is getting even more late.</p>

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<p>The approach you took was probably not a wise one–you should not be focusing on “your story” or how your parents are unwilling to send you somewhere other than Caltech.</p>

<p>Imagine how it would seem if someone asked you out on a date, and you turned him down. Then, things fell apart with the guy you wanted to date, so you came back to this guy and said “Hey, things with the other guy didn’t work out, and besides, you’re the only guy my parents will let me date anyway”. He’d have to be desperate to take you up on your offer.</p>

<p>You should not be trying to convince Caltech to have pity on you, but rather try to convince them that you are worth the hassle of letting into their class. Tell them why you are passionate about Tech, and why YOU want to go here (you’re an adult now, your parents don’t get to make decisions for you anymore). Make sure that your reasons are mature, well thought-out, and have sticking power–obviously tech is going to be a bit hesitant about wanting you if they think you’re going to change your mind again. </p>

<p>If the only real reason you want to go here is because your parents don’t want you to go to MIT, don’t go here.</p>

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<p>I should clarify that what I meant when I said “my story” was being accepted, matriculating, notifying Caltech that I was going to MIT at the end of May, and then severely regretting it because I like Caltech more and I think it’s a better match for me [in terms of being more close-knit, more of a community, its size and culture, and its focus on hardcore science/ having undergrads do real research.] When I picked MIT, it was for all the wrong reasons, and I really regret giving up the chance to go to my first choice school just because MIT was more well-known and I thought it would be easier to get good grades since there is no core. In retrospect, neither of these things matter because I don’t even know if I will really want to be a pre-med, but I do know that I want to learn much more physics and math and go to school in a supportive environment, so I think Caltech’s core would actually be better for that. </p>

<p>Your analogy makes perfect sense. I was trying to avoid it coming off that way, but I don’t think I succeeded. I didn’t actually end up saying any of the words in brackets and after over the phone because he didn’t ask, but I guess I should have (or maybe not? It’s still basically whining and unconvincing, even though it’s earnest.)</p>

<p>whew. it is very nice of you to provide so much guidance on these forums, seeing as the things I and other people post are really our own problems, and on the whole, self-inflicted. =o</p>

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<p>^Maybe this Ray Prado guy isn’t the nicest of people. I remember emailing him a question about my app (I read on the site to direct my specific questions to him). He never got back to me. A week passes. So, I emailed another person in the admissions committee, telling them that Ray never emailed me back so maybe they could answer my question. The next day, Ray replies to my email (probably was reminded by the receiver of the other email, since they are all in one room basically). He received the email, and either didn’t read it or read it and didn’t answer it. Neither of those two scenarios is acceptable for an adcom, especially when they volunteer to be forwarded specific questions.</p>

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<p>I’d try to make it more detailed than the words in brackets. Also, it’s easy to ask for something without whining. </p>

<p>Example:</p>

<p>Hi, [Admissions Person] I am [swimmy] <em>explain situation of currently being matriculated at MIT</em></p>

<p>I understand that the class has already been closed, but I really feel that I would be a good fit for Caltech because of [x,y,z]. I also feel that I could really contribute to Caltech in these ways: [a,b,c]. Again, I understand if nothing can be done but I am willing to do anything in my power to get the opportunity to attend Caltech.</p>

<p>etc.</p>

<p>Re: thanking me: I was once a prefrosh too.</p>

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<p>Some of the very bright but lower GPA students from CalTech and MIT need to apply to DO programs. This would give the MD adcoms pause to see people brighter than their average admittee (but with lower GPAs) boosting the reputation of the osteopathic medical profession.</p>

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<p>

So basically what you’re saying is that you think Ray Prado “isn’t the nicest of people” because he didn’t respond to one of your emails without being prompted? You go on to discuss what you feel is “acceptable for an adcom”.</p>

<p>When you become the director of admissions at a top research university, you will be able to determine what is and what is not acceptable for the adcoms under your supervision. When you meet Ray Prado personally, you will be able to determine whether you think he is a nice guy or not.</p>

<p>Until then, you have no right or reason to do either. </p>

<p>Personally, I think you have a) severely underestimated the volume of emails admissions officers receive and b) severely misjudged Ray Prado’s character. He is someone I have the pleasure of knowing and I certainly find him to be a “nice guy”.</p>

<p>I don’t claim to be able to judge his skills as an admissions officer, but I think that his position and seniority more than speak to that.</p>

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<p>^I wrote “maybe” for a reason. If he’s a nice guy in your book, then you keep thinking that. It doesn’t sound like he was very nice and considerate for the OP (case closed is kind of harsh). In fact, you seemed to say that they’d be “accomodating.” Well, clearly this guy isn’t, while the rest of the commitee seems to be. And how many emails can a Caltech adcom get in a “downtime” emails-wise. This wasn’t like the night after I got my decision, or the day before I sent out my app, but it was in the dead months in between. And all the other emails I had sent to college adcoms have been promptly replied to. To add, his answer wasn’t very helpful. In fact, it didn’t really help me at all.</p>

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<p>Whether Caltech can accept more students or not is not a question of being nice or not, it’s question of what works well for the school. </p>

<p>So let me now rephrase: you think Ray Prado “isn’t the nicest of people” because he didn’t respond to one of your emails without being prompted AND because of a second-hand account you read on the internet of him saying that “the class is closed” (not “case closed”). </p>

<p>I’ve known him for over three years. I might have a slightly stronger position here…</p>

<p>Edit: I should be clear: I don’t really care if you agree with me or not, and I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I just want to make very clear to anyone that reads this thread what the basis of your opinion is and what the basis of mine is. I feel confident that they will come to the correct conclusion based on that evidence.</p>