Premed questions as daughter applies to undergrad

Pre-Med & Medical School High School Student Topics
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Hi all,

D thinks she’s interested in medicine. She has volunteered for the local ambulance corp and at a hospital, hoping that she could either confirm or rule out her interest in medicine but unfortunately hasn’t seen much to help her make that decision.
In other words, it wouldn’t surprise me if she decides she’s not interested in being a doctor after all, but for now that’s her plan.
So she will be applying to schools assuming she’ll be applying to med school. We’ve been focusing on schools that may give her some merit aid. what other factors should we co

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Sorry… Posted too soon and couldn’t edit.

What other factors should we consider if she changes her mind about med school during her freshman year?
If she chooses a school that’s not particularly selective ( acceptance rate of about 60%) and then decides not to do premed but instead chooses she wants to be a Psychologist, for example, would she have been better off at a school with a more well known Psychology program? Or at a more selective school that may have better job placement or recruitment? I’m using Psych only as an example; it could be Math or Accounting or any other major.

I just want to make sure she chooses a school that will work for her whether she is premed or not, and am not sure what we should be looking for. This is our oldest child so it’s all new!

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To get a Psychologist job, you need an advanced degree. To enter a professional field, ie, Accounting, it is not particular easy to switch from a science major such as bio or chem. Lets take a most extreme case, U Penn, if you cannot make it in pre-med, you will not be able to switch to Wharton. Most high acceptance rate colleges have high attrition rate, because the college has to maintain its standard for their graduates to be competitive in the job market. So, don’t have to worry too much about selectivity for a college, college is what you can make it of.

Recently there is a thread in the pre-med section, the kid want to go to Augusta University as pre-med, his target is Georgia COM. I think he can make it if he work hard enough. Augusta U has a 4 year graduation rate of 6%, so I think even he could not make the med school, if he can graduate, he can still go some where.

For an example, a kid I know graduated from a no-name school, he had low stats in HS, but due to his hard work in the college, he was able to be employed by Google.

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This actually is a good thread. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19676372/#Comment_19676372

That being said, my wife is a physician, and was a Spanish major in undergrad. I met her the first week she was at med school, and can safely say it’s an interesting academic journey. Given that you want to target a high GPA as part of the application to med school, success at a middle tier school could be seen as a better strategy than a middling gpa at a top tier school. I’m sure there’s other opinions on that, particularly if it’s a program that’s similar to Brown’s PMLE program (as I understand it, admission to the undergraduate program is pre-admission to the medical school).

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Thank you for your input.

So let’s say she has a choice between a “high tier” and “lower tier” school and ends up at the lower tier school in hopes of getting a high GPA. If she then decides against pre-med, are there any negatives to being at the lower tier school?

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Way too hypothetical, to be honest. Ultimately, the best school will be the one that is the best fit for her not just academically.

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Define “high tier”. Define “low tier”.

A lot of school rankings are in the eye of the beholder.

A top student at a #220 ranked state U will be able to go to med school or grad school. Maybe even a top ranked program. (I’ve known a couple who have.)

Going to a top med or grad program from a never-heard-of-it directional state U or teensy tiny regional LAC is going to be harder. And it is going to require more effort and initiative on the part of the student than it would if they attended a more widely know/regarded school. They need top grades, top standardized scores and will have to make more of an effort to make contacts with people in their fields outside of their home college–like doing summer research programs at higher ranked/better known schools. Perhaps taking a few summer classes at a different and better known university to garner additional recommendations of professors in the field of grad school interest.

Career advising (both from the college’s career center as well as from faculty mentors) at really low tier schools may be lacking or all but non-existent. That too will hurt a students chance at a job, at getting accepted into med or professional school, or getting into a graduate program. For grad school, it really helps to have a professor/mentor in the field who can make suggestions on where to apply.

Your child doesn’t need to attend a academic powerhouse/brand name private school, but attending a college out in the weeds that no one has ever heard of and that seldom sends students to grad or professional school will disadvantage them when it comes to post-grad education opportunities.

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No real disadvantage to a “lower” school that empowers her, where she stretches and learns. The issue would be so low that, as WOWMom says, there’s little there for her, in the first place. That means she can safely consider top 100 or so, maybe deeper if you give us some idea of targets. (Of course, any college needs to be vetted for the rest of fit and opportunity, too.)

Watch out for folks suggesting schools that meet this dual consideration you have. Some are great for premed, but fierce weeders. The % of kids who get into med school (the number you usually see quoted) is much smaller than those who start with premed intentions.

And many kids, until they get to college and see the buffet of academic choices, only know the obvious career paths they see around them now.

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Thank you @WayOutWestMom and @lookingforward for your detailed input.

We will dig deeper into career advising and percentage of students going on to grad school at the colleges on her list.

None of the schools she’s considering would be schools that are unheard of. For example, Indiana (Bloomington) is a safety on her list. She would apply to their College of Arts and Sciences. Although IU’s Kelley School has an amazing reputation, we don’t know much about the CAS. IU isn’t particularly selective (acceptance rate of about 75%) but I’m not sure how that translates into career placement/advising, recruitment, rigor of classes, etc.

On the other hand, Colgate would be a more selective reach school for her. If she were to be admitted to Colgate I wouldn’t have any concerns about her switching from premed to another major because of Colgate’s reputation for job placement and recruitment from our area (NY State).

I have read posts on this forum that “X” school was too easy for certain students, easier than their HS level courses. So I just don’t want her to be in a situation like that where she’s not challenged academically. (I’m not suggesting IU would fall into that category; I just don’t know enough about it.)

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Dig around forums or post the weeding question about targets, later. See what some can say about Colgate, etc.

It is next to impossible to find the % of new freshman premeds who make it to applying to med school. The only one I know if is an old report on Johns Hopkins. (Decades old, I think.) I think 80% left their premed ideas. (If I’m remembering wrong, you still get the point.)

There will be cooperative premed tracks.

Also, many complaints about colleges easier than high school are based on freshman year. Kids usually get more immersed as they get deeper into their majors. Imo, you look for the peer group that stimulates.

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In some fields (consulting and ibanking come to mind), this is absolutely a disadvantage. I’m on a listserv that gets job postings for people with advanced degrees and got one from an investment bank for an equity research analyst that said MD/PhDs preferred over MD or PhD and that “degrees from a top university are preferred.” They’re not even keeping the prestige preference behind closed doors and this is the already elite field of people with advanced degrees. The preference would be even stronger for undergrad only positions.

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@newyorkmom2girl–

My perspective:

One D went to our state U (ranked around #200 on USNews). My other D went to a top 30 research U with a powerhouse pre-med program.

Guess what? They both had research opportunities; both had challenging academics; both were asked to serve as TAs; both received excellent mentoring from their professors; both were accepted to multiple medical schools; both attend/attended the same medical school. (Instate because $8k/semester for med school is tough to beat…)

D1 is now a physician in her 3rd year of residency in her chosen specialty at New England Ivy hospital. D2 will be a extremely strong candidate for her specialty when she applies next month. I fully expect her to match as well as her sister did.

(Oh, and fwiw, D1 had been accepted to a top 10 biophysics grad program before she changed directions and decided she’d prefer med school over grad school. Pre-med changes go in both directions. Kids drop out of pre-med, but kids also drop in.)

The point–it’s the student, not the school that makes a successful pre-med.

The advice I give to pre-meds and their parents–pick the school that offers the best combination of fit (happier students have better grades), opportunities (research & mentoring but also alternate majors because 3/4 of freshmen pre-med never actually apply to med school), and cost sinc emed school is hideously expensive and there is little FA except for loans, loans and more loans.

Oh, and any numbers you see posted by colleges on the “success rates” of their pre-meds are never to be trusted. All colleges manipulate their numbers to reflect favorably on the college. And there is absolutely no consistent way the accepted student percentage is calculated among schools.

Schools that have very high success rates often tightly control who is allowed to apply to med school by restricting committee recommendation letters to only the very strongest candidates who are highly likely to get accepted.

D2 was one of those kids who said those type of things. So were most of her classmates. But she had graduated from an extremely competitive prep school and where kids routinely took post-AP level classes starting in 11th grade and had college-style block class scheduling starting in 9th grade. D2 had a very smooth transition to college, but she was never bored because she simply stepped into upper level coursework.

Also, a lot of those who are bragging X school is sooo easy----are lying.

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@WayOutWestMom I’m tempted to print out your response (in poster size) and leave it in my daughter’s room! Excellent things to keep in mind! Thank you.