<p>My sonjust went for the orientation. The tentative courses for his fall semester are Chem 111A (Loomis), Chem 151 lab plus a writing course. I thought it looks a bit on the light side consider the number of prerequisite courses he has to take before senior year for MCAT. Any comments? </p>
<p>Is he not taking calculus/whatever level math he’s at?</p>
<p>The other premed intro-level courses are bio & physics. Most premeds take physics as a junior. Bio 1 (Bio 2960) is a spring course, because it requires Gen Chem as a pre-req.</p>
<p>As an aside, Loomis is the man. Awesome prof.</p>
<p>Edit: I CAN"T HANDLE the fact that Kit Mao is no longer in charge of Gen Chem Lab. What even is this???</p>
<p>My D went into registration this week all set to take Chem 111 and her advisor told her that the Chem Dept. is suggesting Physics before Chem, so she shifted her to Physics 117 instead. To me, this is a bit of a head-scratcher. Any comments/thoughts?</p>
<p>I looked up the Physics 117 for you:</p>
<p>Description:</p>
<p>Calculus-based introduction to the concepts, laws, and structure of physics. The course is taught in a lecture-based style and requires students to complete weekly homework assignments. Topics include kinematics, Newton’s laws, energy, linear momentum, angular momentum, the conservation laws, gravitational force, harmonic motion, wave motion and interference, sound, and special relativity. Concurrent registration in a Physics 117A lab section is required (Architecture students who do not need lab should enroll in lab section Z). Two evening exams, at which attendance is required, will be given from 6:30 to 8:30 pm on October 2 and November 13, followed by a required final exam given from 6:00 to 8:00 pm on December 15. Prerequisite: Previous or concurrent enrollment in Calculus I (Math 131) or permission of instructor. Credit may not be obtained for both Physics 117A and Physics 197 and students may not simultaneously enroll in both courses.</p>
<p>Maybe your advisor felt she could take Physics because of her Calculus background?</p>
<p>@foursite
Be sure to take a look at this too: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/washington-university-st-louis/1658647-physics-117-a-or-physics-197.html#latest”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/washington-university-st-louis/1658647-physics-117-a-or-physics-197.html#latest</a></p>
<p>@foursite
I strongly advise against pre-med students waiting until sophomore year to take Gen Chem. Waiting til sophomore year means you don’t start bio until spring sophomore year, which is silly for a pre-med. If your daughter’s advisor suggested that I seriously question their judgement skills.</p>
<p>If either Gen Chem or Orgo (or even bio) throws you out of being premed, it would SUCK to not find this out until junior year and then scramble. I know lots of people who are either jobless or underemployed because their bio degrees are not very useful after dropping pre-med/health aspirations.</p>
<p>You can certainly take physics as a freshmen (but take 197; an advisor who suggests 117 to a math-skilled person has no business being an advisor, in my opinion). All of the engineers do (which is what I did). The only “bad” thing then is that spring of your freshman year you have 3 labs, but that really didn’t bother me to be honest. (I was bme my freshman year, so I had Gen Chem, Gen Bio, Physics, & Calc on my plate. I survived just dandy).</p>
<p>(For the record, your daughter does NOT have to do what the advisor suggests. She can go in now (edit: I mean go online to webstac, not in person to the advisor) and change her schedule on her own and the advisor can’t really do anything).</p>
<p>Also, from what I understand (never was premed, full disclosure), most of my premed friends took at least one advanced bio class (be it micro, biochem, whatever). If you want to do that, you cannot get that class in before the MCAT if you’re not finishing the 2960/2970/3058 sequence until your junior year.</p>
<p>Additional note: I would also suggest premed freshmen take MedPrep 1 (Bio 2651). You can certainly take it as a sophomore, but I know a handful of premed students who learned through that class that they had no desire to go to med school (and some who it solidified it for them). The pre-med attrition is horrendous - there’s no sidestepping that fact. Should someone decide to drop being pre-med/health for whatever reason (grades, just deciding they don’t like it), it’s far better to find out earlier rather than later. </p>
<p>I changed my major my junior year. I was able to do so because my BME classes carried over to EE very easily and because I had overloaded myself with other classes as an underclassmen. But even with all of that, it still sucked - probably the one and only thing I regret about my undergrad time is that I never went abroad… and changing my major as a junior rather than earlier was the reason for it. (Thank goodness I just didn’t like bio; switching in engineering is easy… switching to artsci my junior year would have been an absolute nightmare).</p>
<p>(Just to be honest, no one really checks on prereqs so its unlikely you’d get caught if you tried to take bio 2960 before starting gen chem… but it is a prereq for a reason).</p>
<p>Further note @foursite
I think I know whats up with the advisors suggestion. The chem department recommends HIGH SCHOOL physics before taking Gen Chem.
117/197 is absolutely not necessary beforehand, although it would have been helpful for some Chem 111 concepts.</p>
<p>I had high school physics, but it was a joke of a class that had no business using the “physics” label, so as long as your daughter has had exposure to general “physical sciences” concepts (not necessarily calc-based or non calc-based physics) she should do just fine. So long as she signs up for a PLTL (which everyone should do anyway, imo) and reaches out to Cornerstone for tutoring help if necessary, she’ll be fine. If she’s like one of the very few people I know who just could not pass/do better than a C or D in Chem no matter how many times they retook the class, taking physics as a freshman and waiting on chem til sophomore year wouldn’t help anyway.</p>
<p>Johnson181
Apparently he is not taking calc this semester. That is why I am confused. He said he would take calc and physics next semester. I just feel the fall semester course load is rather light. </p>
<p>@cliffhanger
It’s not weird to take a semester off on calculus, so I don’t see that weird.</p>
<p>But physics? I’d triple check with him on that. Unless he has AP credit for the fall semester (but as pre-med he shouldn’t 'cause there are plenty of med schools that won’t accept AP credit…), he cannot just take Physics 198 in the Fall. 197 is a pre-req for 198. Also, I don’t know if this is still true (because when I took 197/8, there were only 2 sections & it was highly waitlisted), but as far as I know you cannot take 198 without taking 197, regardless of AP credit’ing out of 197 (similarly, you cannot take 117 and then 198, but you can do 197 and then 118).</p>
<p>Do note, I took physics in Fall '08-Spring '09, so this could have changed, but I don’t see why he’d wait til the spring for physics.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for the targeted feedback. Very helpful.</p>
<p>I am also a pre-med incoming freshman and I’ve signed up for Calculus II and Physics 197. On their pre-health advising site it says that this is a popular option (and is now even being recommended as an equal to the math + chem first year) if you plan on taking a gap year after college to do the MCAT and medical school interviews.</p>
<p>My advisor also suggested taking physics before chemistry. He said that the chemistry department actually likes it when students take physics before their chemistry classes because in chemistry you immediately start with the more “physics” side of chemistry like wave particle duality rather than the “typical” chem stuff we are used to in high school.</p>
<p>Taking physics before general chemistry at WashU is absolutely unnecessary. I took a really easy physics course in high school that just barely covered the basics and did well in gen chem. The first few topics in the course involve magnetic/electric fields and other physics-related concepts, but knowing them ahead of time isn’t necessary. I think lots of students are scared off after the first week or so of gen chem (I was freaking out) because it is so different from high school chemistry. With all the help offered (TAs, professor office hours, PLTL, cornerstone, POGIL, etc) for chemistry, you can succeed as long as you reach out for help and do enough practice.
Also, with Physics 117/118, it is different and many people opt out of it because it is an unpopular choice and “harder”. I was “screwed over” by the system this past year by not getting a seat in physics 197, however I found that physics 117/118 pushed me to learn on my own and I now know the physics a lot better than I ever thought I would. In terms of grade distribution, homework will count a lot more in 197 which is why people tend to prefer it. If you have any other questions feel free to message me!</p>