<p>Yeah, yeah, I read through this forum and got a ton of helpful advice and insight into the process of getting through undergrad and into a med school and all that, but I still have a <em>ahem</em> course-related question.</p>
<p>Is it a good idea to take inorganic chem 2 and orgo 1 at the same time? I'm a freshman (at Michigan State if that helps at all), psych major, etc. and because of a little poor planning and a little bad luck I wasn't able to schedule either genchem 2 or its corresponding lab for this year (I have to take chem 1 this semester and chem lab 1 next semester >.<). So I'm contemplating taking chem 2+lab next year (semester 3) along with Physics 1+lab and Orgo 1. Yes? No? I'm not really worried about the workload, I'm just worried about being able to understand the material more thoroughly. I don't want to do chem over the summer, the threads here seem to discourage that...and I don't want to put off Physics until after the MCAT and there's no way I can do it junior year as of now. I took AP in high school and I was horrible at it. The only reason I scraped by with a 3 on the AP test was because I knew calculus. So I really don't want to put off learning Physics when I'm so weak in that area.</p>
<p>Actually, I have another question >.>; Med schools typically require one year of english, but do they mean english courses or writing-intensive courses?? I'm not sure how it is in other schools but at State, they have several upper-level, major-specific, writing-intensive courses and all majors are typically required to take one to fulfill the "University Tier II Writing Requirement". I'm asking because I came in with a 5 on both AP english tests, and it got me out of one year of english as a result. Is this something I'd have to ask my school or are med schools adamant on <em>english</em> courses??</p>
<p>My roommate is going into biomedical engineering and he took analytical chem (Inorganic 2) and orgo 1 last year at the same time. It pretty much killed him, but I think he got A’s in both, or an A in one and an AB in the other, I can’t remember. Either way, he said it sucked. If you’re strong in chem, you could probably do it, but I’d leave out physics.</p>
<p>Oh, sidenote, I’m opting for orgo 1 this semester, orgo two next semester, and orgo lab over the summer. Then inorganic 2 over the following summer.</p>
<p>It depends a lot on you. Gen. Chem was the easiest science class for my D. while Orgo one of the hardest. She usually took at least 2 very hard classes / semester with the rest being easier. You are the only person who can evaluate the degree of difficulty of these classes for you. Do not take Med. School requirements over summer.</p>
<p>Okay, is that usually the sequence for chem - genchem 1, orgo 1, orgo 2, genchem 2? I know that’s how some other schools do it, and the only prereq for orgo is chem 1. I always thought it was a good idea to take both gen chems before orgo. I’ll be sure to talk to my advisor about it, but thanks :)</p>
I heard many medical schools (and likely AMCAS also) heavily rely on the department name to decide whether it is an English course (or a physics/chemistry/biology/math course – an exception here is that a course offered by the biochemistry department is likely treated as a chemistry course, I think.)</p>
<p>If your course is offered jointly by your department and the English department, try (if you can) to ask your college to put the English department name (not your department’s name) on your transcript for that course.</p>
<p>To be safe, one English course should be a writing course, offered by the correct (i.e., English) department.</p>
<p>Why not? I’m taking it at the same college I attend during the school year, and am taking all those classes for a grade (not pass/fail). Actually, I NEED to take those classes over the summer in order to graduate in 4 years. I came in with zero APs since my high school didn’t offer any, and that kinda screws you in many ways for all of undergrad.</p>
The summer is the time for building up your ECs. You have about 9 months to demonstrate your academic capability. The remaining months should be for demonstrating others.
Medical school adcoms MAY believe that the competitors in the summer classes are relatively weaker. They may want to see how you perform against the stronger pool of students with a full load of classes, clubs, etc, during the regular fall/spring semesters.
Taking one (or at most two) prereq in the summer may be not harmful other than sacrificing some of your time that should be allocated for ECs. But do not take the majority of your prereqs in summer (because of the reason 2 above.)</p>
<p>I have a question about ECs, actually. How much time should one spend on outside activities during their freshman year? Right now, between 2 orchestras and 18 credits I’m just trying to adjust to college life and so far it’s just enough work for me, and I don’t want to overwork myself and compromise my GPA right now. I’m not overly-stressed right now (it’s actually a little easier than high school - little more work, but more time to do it all in), but should I be looking for volunteer opportunities as early as next semester? I’m considering looking into volunteering at the local hospital next semester (I’m only taking 15 creds next semester), but should I wait until the summer?</p>
<p>you have to realize that there’s the ideal, most perfectest way of being a premed and everything else. Very few people are going to match the IDEAL path. But there are somethings that are bigger deals than others. Assuming stats and everything objective stay the same is taking a science course at your home institution over the summer enough to keep you out of medical school if you would have otherwise been accepted by taking the class in a normal semester? No. I’m willing to go so far as saying ABSOLUTELY not. Does it perhaps raise an eyebrow? Maybe. Does that eyebrow accompanied by multiple other “less than ideal” decisions or outcomes put you at risk for not getting accepted? Given the competitive nature of med school admissions these days…nearly anything puts you at risk of not being accepted. So knowing that, the safest advice is not do things out of the ordinary. Does that mean that you won’t/can’t get into medical school if you take a summer pre-req? No, but your goal should be to give yourself the best chance possible, so avoiding easily avoidable “issues” should be the advice that’s given.</p>
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<p>you know there was a time when most students only had a limited number of AP’s. I fail to see how not having any AP’s “screws” you and forces you to take a less than ideal route in class selection. The chemistry sequence is pretty much the only rigid aspect of the pre-med requirements in which the length and material requires taking the classes in order. Unless you to go to a small school that is unable to provide an adequate number of introductory course seats for widely used science courses, there shouldn’t be a problem. If you do go to a school that can’t adequately staff their intro courses, then you made a poor choice in undergrad selection if you knew you wanted to go pre-med.</p>
<p>But what is that order? It doesn’t actually specify what the order is - it does say CEM 141/161 (chem1/lab), CEM 142/162 (chem 2/lab), and then orgo 1/2/lab (CEM 252/253/255). That’s the numerical order, but they don’t actually give a specific guideline on which ones you must take before what - and I’ve heard a lot of people take chem 2 after chem 1 and orgo. I realize there isn’t one specific way though - I’m just trying to see what works best for my schedule, that’s all.</p>
<p>What’s with the condescending tone? Grow up please.</p>
<p>Reason #1 no APs screws you - you register last for classes. Every. Single. Semester. Even when I’m a senior, I’ll be registering pretty much last for senior classes. The effect of this lessens once you become a junior and senior, but it blows for intro classes.</p>
<p>Reason #2 - I can’t skip any intro classes at all. If I had AP bio at my school, I wouldn’t be wasting 5 credits worth of time on intro bio this semester. If I had AP physics, I wouldn’t be wasting 4 credits on intro physics next year. Etc etc, I think you get the picture.</p>
<p>I’m majoring in MMI (medical microbiology and immunology). It’s a very hard major, and a lot of classes. The majority of my classes that I need to take for my major aren’t offered during the summer. Hence the reason I need to take o-chem lab and analytical chem in subsequent summers. I won’t have a problem getting the 120 credits I need to graduate, but if I don’t take those classes during the summer, I won’t finish in 4 years since there are so many requirements. So get out of here with that “easily avoidable” bullcrap unless you’ve been in my situation.</p>
<p>I do not have personal experience with summer classes. D. has not taken any single summer class. I heard from many that it is not looked on favorably by Med. School Admissions when required classes are taken in a summer. In regard to EC’s, D. is also much more involved during school year than in a summer. It is much easier to get job, internship even volunteering position of your choice at her college than in our very economically depressed city where some volunteering positions have waiting lists in hundreds believe it or not. D. is involved heavily with EC’s at college, both medically related and otherwise and enjoys all of them. In a summer, she could shadow a little, which is also very hard to arrange, some additional volunteering, but mostly spent time with her buddies.</p>
<p>In regard to sequence, according to D. Orgo has very little to do with Gen Chem. She knows Gen Chem really well, she has been Supplemental Instructor in this class for few years, did not have to study Gen Chem portion of MCAT.</p>
This actually points to an important point: If you need to be involved with some ECs that are mostly provided by the city, the city your college is at may be important.</p>
<p>In general, is it the southern or coastal cities better in this sense? (I know this is an over-generalization.) I met a coworker who once said he would never want to go back to his hometown to make a living.</p>
<p>Nah, every locality big enough to have a school is going to have some kind of health facility, and usually a pretty good hospital. If anything urban cities might be overcrowded with volunteers.</p>
<p>^ Do schools look that favorably upon volunteering at hospitals? I volunteered in the OR of a local hospital for three years back in middle/high school, and now I’m volunteering once a week in the UW-Hospital. And yes, they are definitely overcrowded with volunteers there.</p>
<p>In terms of English requirements, I was in the same boat you are when I started applying this year. I took ENG 102 (or whatever) at a community college which transferred to my university as freshman English. I proceeded to get the remainder of my English requirements through upper level writing intensive courses. </p>
<p>I applied to 12 schools (still working on Duke’s secondary…) and about half of them required English for a year. I called each of those schools, explained my situation, and ended up “updating” my secondary (either via email or the school’s secondary’s website) with the course description from our course catalog per the request of the schools. According to every single advisor (premed, major, and physician I shadow on my university’s med school’s admissions committee), if your school counts it as an English class, then that med school will count it as an English class, and thus my writing intensives satisfy the requirements.</p>
<p>And volunteering at the OR in middle school doesn’t mean a lick to med schools.</p>
<p>^ It was up until my sophomore year of high school. And that’ll do absolutely zero? I have a hard time believing it means nothing at all. It might be very very tiny, but I don’t think it’s worthless.</p>
<p>So you’re saying if was identical with another applicant, the fact that I volunteered there during HS would be completely irrelevant and they wouldn’t give me the edge over an identical applicant who didn’t? I simply can’t believe that. Experience is experience.</p>
<p>I mean, you can be as stubborn as you want, but the fact is that high school activities mean nothing. I had a great run in high school and did lots of marvelous things–academics, activities, sports, volunteering, hospitals, etc–and did not mention even ONE of those things on my med school application or in any of my secondaries. The only exception to this is that I had a job that extended from sophomore year of high school through sophomore year of college (but during college, was only during breaks), so when I listed employment, I included some years I worked during high school. </p>
<p>So in terms of you and another identical applicant, high school wouldn’t matter because high school wouldn’t even be a factor because neither of you would have listed it on your med school application.</p>
<p>A great way to “use” that experience is to know what you want to do in the future. Say you volunteered in the OR and the ER. Maybe you realized that you liked the OR, but not the ER. This means that when you want to volunteer at the hospital associated with Michigan State (on a side note, check out their DOs too, one of the few (only?) schools with both MD and DO schools), you can bypass the whole “which department should I start in?” question and get straight to the OR.</p>
<p>So it wasn’t all for nothing by any means, but it won’t matter for med school admissions.</p>