Premedical to Med-School--Finding your best chance to get in

College Search & Selection
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<p>I was wondering what everybody would say about how to choose a premed program that will give a student his/her best chances at getting into med school, especially for an A/B high school student such as myself with a 3.5 gpa (though I will pull it up sr year and into college, as it is deflated due to an illness affecting my energy levels and ability to study/work at my best during my sophomore and junior years). </p>

<p>I am finding myself unsure how to judge a college's premedical program and find what would give me my best shot at getting into medical school. Anyone have any ideas? I've been doing my research and will put a few links below, but I haven't found anything about exactly what i'm looking for, which is basically a guide of how to get into medical school (point B) from a mediocre high school standing (point A), and how to find the college that will help to get me where I want to be. I am sure there are MANY others like myself with this same question, and i thank you all in advance for your answers!</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/19444-best-premed-programs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/19444-best-premed-programs.html&lt;/a>
What</a> to Look for When Choosing Pre-Med College Programs
Premed</a> Planning - The Timeline and Steps to Become a Doctor</p>

<p>in the first link Sakky says, basically, that it might be better for students to go to easier schools as to inflate their GPAs before med school applications, although he does not mention anything about MCAT scores which are likely much higher in the more difficult schools. I am not sure where I stand on his argument myself, but I was interested by his ideas and thought you all might be as well.</p>

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<p>basics of applying and med school info
[Pre-Professional</a> Program FAQs](<a href=“http://www.millikin.edu/academics/cas/ppp/Pages/Pre-ProfessionalProgramFAQs.aspx]Pre-Professional”>http://www.millikin.edu/academics/cas/ppp/Pages/Pre-ProfessionalProgramFAQs.aspx)</p>

<p>Scroll about halfway down on this one there’s a great chart of the requirements that you should gain under your belt before applying (gpa mcat research and volunteer hours etc)
[Medical</a> school requirements and extracurricular activities - competitive medical school applicant](<a href=“http://www.startmedicine.com/app/requirements.asp]Medical”>http://www.startmedicine.com/app/requirements.asp)</p>

<p>Again these links don’t exactly tell me how to get to the best premed program but they definitely help in getting into med school nonetheless. I still find myself lost as to how to find which college will give me the best chance at living my dream as a doctor. I know some colleges have a B.S./M.D. program but they seemed incredibly selective and I would not get in to them with my GPA currently.</p>

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<p>You’ve looked at the Premed Topics forum; as you’ve seen, this question has been asked there many times. My take on it is to go to the cheapest school you can that will still afford you a solid education and volunteering/research opportunities. No sense in going into debt before you even get to med school!</p>

<p>I think what Sakky also meant to add (I didn’t read the thread, so I can’t be sure) is that the “easier” schools are easier in the sense that the other students aren’t as academically strong or motivated. As such, your grades will be higher since you won’t have to deal with a curve filled with overachievers, but the material will be the same.</p>

<p>Don’t get hung up on the “best” premed school. There is no one best school, because some people learn better in different environments, some people are more driven to succeed, etc. You just need to find the best one for YOU. Don’t even worry about the BS/MD programs, as as you’ve assumed, you’re pretty much out of the running. Go into a regular undergrad program, do your very best, and get into any medical school you can (at that level, there is little difference between schools).</p>

<p>Don’t worry too much – with the research you’ve done here, you’re looking very knowledgeable about the process already. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Don’t know if it shows up on all those threads, but remember that your state of residence plays a big role here. The least expensive med schools are your in-state options - and if you are lucky, you are a resident of a state that has lots of seats relative to the number of in-state applicants (and reserves few or no seats for out-of-state residents). You can check if you are one of the lucky ones by looking at the admission stats for your in-state school (they are usually broken out by instate and out of state applicants, interviews, offers and acceptances). If you are one of the lucky ones, be sure to protect your in-state residency (file state taxes, keep your car registered in that state, vote in-state, etc…states do ‘residency tests’ to determine if you are still a resident. Be especially careful if you attend college outside the state.)</p>

5

<p>Your chances to get into med school largely depend on YOU. YOU have to get the top grades, YOU have to score well on your MCAT, YOU have to spend your free time studying and doing medically-related ECs. No school can do that for you. </p>

<p>Any good school with good science classes is good enough. it does help if the school has a good advising office and will do Committee Letters. </p>

<p>My son is in the med school app process right now. I think he’s applied to 18 med schools (if I’m counting right…lol). His state flagship does do Committee Letters, which I think does help. </p>

<p>M’s mom is right. Your state of residency matters. Some states have a ridiculously high number of med school applicants. Some states have a number of med schools, including a number of inexpensive publics. Public SOMs usually give a high preference to instate applicants (some ONLY accept instate applicants…or will only accept a few OOS students if they have some hook…like they’re MD/PhD, or have some ties to the state.)</p>

<p>EVERY SINGLE MD SOM in the US is excellent. There are no “bad”, “poor”, or “subpar” MD SOMs in this country. It doesn’t matter which one you attend; getting accepted to at least one of them is the goal.</p>

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<p>That post in the other thread was just a very wordy way to say that it is desirable for a pre-med student to be at a school with high grade inflation relative to the competitiveness of the students there.</p>

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<p>Taking the pre-med pre-reqs at ANY good school will NOT be easy. </p>

<p>Yes, the top schools will be filled with Vals and Sals with perfect/near perfect SATs who will all be fighting for the limited number of A’s awarded in the pre-med pre-reqs. Those are weeder courses, so A’s aren’t handed out like candy. That can make getting a high GPA nearly impossible for the student who “got lucky” and got admitted to those schools with stats in the middle quartiles. </p>

<p>The so-called easier schools will not have easy pre-med pre-reqs…no sir (just ask my friend’s high-stats son who just got a C in OChem at a state flagship).</p>

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<p>Going to agree that your state flagship’s medical school is probably your cheapest option, but that public medical schools in general are going to be a lot cheaper than your Harvard, Stanford, etc. medical schools even if you are OOS. I think for another thread I was looking at two Texas medical schools and realizing that even their OOS costs were far cheaper than private medical colleges.</p>

<p>There’s also the option of, if you are not a resident of one of those great public medical college states, taking a year or two off after college and establishing residency in a state that does have one.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand the argument that it’s better for a pre-med student to go to an easier school with grade inflation in order to increase chances of admission to medical schools. Are medical school admissions committees so unsophisticated that they do not realize that GPA is relative? I doubt it.</p>

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<p>They probably also realize that less selective schools tend to have less grade inflation in general, although there are some exceptions.</p>

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<p>“They probably also realize that less selective schools tend to have less grade inflation in general, although there are some exceptions.”</p>

<p>Yes, but on the other hand, and I agree with this and have to watch for this myself, a premed student would be far better off with a 3.7 gpa at an easier school than a 3.3 at a top premedical school, as the 3.3 would be discarded before even being glanced at and the 3.7 would be able to make it’s way to the committee for admissions. On the other side, the 3.3 more difficult school would likely have a much better MCAT score, if i am correct in this assumption, due to the superior premed program. And if the 3.7 were to score below a 30 or so on that MCAT his application would also become a toss. So as far as I’m concerned, there has to be a happy medium somewhere in between prestigious and blowoff, the difficulty comes in judging what premed programs will be too competitive for the individual (in this case myself) or which ones won’t teach enough to raise test scores. You want to be able to keep your gpa in bounds of a 3.55-3.8 or so while taking the toughest college you can that will be preparing for the MCAT.</p>

<p>Would you all agree that this above is pretty much correct or is there some major flaw I’m missing in my argument? (such as all undergrads are too close to the same that it doesn’t matter as much which school I attend, as long as I work hard)</p>

<p>But this does not account for those many schools with Medical School ties. And this is where I am completely stumped at quantifying the quality of these colleges. There are some colleges, such as Loyola in Chicago, which sends many students to the Strich School of Medicine due to their close school ties with the med program. And it is the same with the U of Chicago. Yet, as we’ve already thrown light on, I am basically ineligible for the B.S./M.D. programs, which amounts to about half of these schools’ hook for premeds. </p>

<p>Money is another issue, as my parents have saved me almost nothing and I myself have saved something along the equivalent of almost year in room and board (7k is a lot for a jobless teenager), but right now I am more concerned with getting into med school in the first place, by going to the best place I can find. The loans will suck but this isn’t about money, it’s about doing something worthwhile with my life, helping someone, doing something good… That’s what matters to me and what should matter to all doctors. (In my opinion, even as an aspiring doctor, they are all overpaid which only attracts money-seekers.)</p>

<p>Luckily most my undergrad choices are in my home state Illinois and there are many Med-Schools in the state, so I don’t even have to worry about state-ship, despite the fact that it is a competitive state it is still my best shot. At this point I don’t care where i will be going to med school, just that I will be. Once I apply and (hopefully) get into several, then I will have the ability to pick and choose.</p>

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<p>When you are graduating with $300k worth of debt from med school, and don’t start actually earning a salary that will pay it back until you are 30 years old, you don’t feel that docs are quite as overpaid - certainly not those who are GPs, pediatricians and family doctors, and not those who are working in underserved areas. With the tremendous uncertainty about physician reimbursement going forward (we know it’s only going to get lower, but not sure how much lower), going to medical school feels riskier financially than it ever has before. If you aren’t doing it for the love of the field, you can probably make more money elsewhere.</p>

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<p>The daughter of a friend of mine, who is going into her junior year as a chemistry major with a 3.9 GPA at a so-called “top 20” university with the initial intention of applying to medical school, recently looked at just the factors that M’s Mom cited. She also considered the time that physicians need to spend doing non-patient-care tasks. She has decided that she can accomplish her goals better through a physician’s assistant program.</p>

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<p>Interesting…That’s another route I’ve never considered. Of course there will be plenty of time to figure that out between hospital volunteering, research, and shadowing a few doctors. Based on what I have seen in hospitals and the many hours I’ve spend in them, I believe that I want to be a surgeon, yet all these things still have further consideration possibilities.</p>

15

<p>For me, money is nothing, and I’d become a doctor if it meant debt for life, because the way I see it you can’t put a dollar amount on somebody’s life. Life is sacred and to me being someone who protects life would be the most honorable thing I could do as a human being. Yeah the road ahead will be tough but will it be worth it? To me, undoubtably so.</p>

<p>~</p>

<p>On another not note more related to premed and med school, I found more accounts of people claiming that it is best to major in anything but biology, as the competition is too fierce and will only bout your gpa. Definitely has convinced me to go the route of a CS major with Pre-med track alongside. [What</a> major do you recommend as pre-professional undergraduates in preparation for medicine? - Yahoo! Answers](<a href=“Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos)</p>

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<p>@wbmusicify, it really depends. Most of the med students at Earlham (my college) are Bio or Biochem majors, and we have a >90% med school placement rate, with 80% getting into one of their 3 preferred schools. I don’t know about large publics, but it certainly hasn’t gimped our pre-med students, who enroll in prestigious med schools every year.</p>

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<p>These concern me because you SHOULD be concerned about money IF you want to be able to do as you please as a doctor. There are inexpensive ways to get a decent undergrad education, so find one that works for you.</p>

<p>Study for the SAT and/or ACT. Get as high of a score as you can as MANY scholarships are dependent upon those scores - it’s not just admission. You could “earn” more by studying than you ever will in a high school job if you select your undergrad carefully. Once you have scores, get with your guidance counselor to see where you might qualify for good aid. Then check to see where pre-med students there have gone (not rates, but specific students). If it all checks out good, you have an option to apply to. Try for a few options, then see where the best money is offered.</p>

<p>Even if you choose not to major in Bio (no reason to major in it if it’s not “you”), you’ll still have to take Bio 101 with the others to satisfy med school requirements. It will be a weeder course.</p>

<p>Med school admissions people I’ve talked with have told me they want candidates who prove their worthiness by taking on challenges and succeeding. They do not like those who tried to opt for the easy way in. Their reasoning? Med school is difficult and they aren’t looking for students who want easy.</p>

<p>You don’t have to go to an Ivy or equivalent. There are several good schools out there. You need to find one that is affordable and work to prove you are worthy. Then, look at med schools… In the end, you will appreciate less debt. Right now it’s just a number to you, but when it is reality and payments and you can’t afford to do what you’d really want to do (as a doctor or otherwise), you’ll appreciate less debt.</p>

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<p>*I don’t understand the argument that it’s better for a pre-med student to go to an easier school with grade inflation in order to increase chances of admission to medical schools. Are medical school admissions committees so unsophisticated that they do not realize that GPA is relative? I doubt it.
*</p>

<p>I don’t think that is the argument. I think the argument is that at a less prestigious school (not “easier”), there will be less “super-students” all fighting for the limited number of As.</p>

<p>Also, the top schools are notorious for grade inflation.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I know I’m likely too naive with debt right now, but still I would rather get into med school than not. I guess what i’m trying to say is that if a better school will have a better chance for me to get to live that dream then it’s worth it even if it costs more. I’m willing to do whatever I have to do.</p>

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<p>The problem is, there is not really enough data to say whether attending a more selective school is of significant help purely in MCAT score and GPA for medical school admissions. Comparisons are confounded by the fact that the more selective school tends to have stronger students who will have higher MCAT scores and GPAs anyway, even if they attended less selective schools. Grade inflation versus a less competitive group of students is another variable to consider; unless a school is unusually more or less grade inflated than others of similar selectivity, then it may not necessarily be obvious which is the better choice purely from that standpoint. A more selective school can theoretically teach courses in greater depth, but that is not necessarily the case for all courses, particularly the pre-med ones.</p>

<p>Of course, other factors like cost and convenience of pre-med extracurriculars also factor into the comparison.</p>