<p>I'm reaching out to prep school parents whose children have recently completed or are seniors currently undergoing the college admission process. </p>
<p>Here's why. A friend of mine has a child who is a senior at a well regarded prep school. When his daughter was deferred at her top early action school, he asked her college counselor to call that school and personally advocate on his daughter's behalf. His daughter's college counselor politely declined. He then explained that college admission officers are too inundated with applications to take his personal calls. </p>
<p>Here are my questions: in your personal experience, do the college counselors at your child's prep school contact college admission officers to personally advocate on behalf of the students in their advisory group? If so, how and in what circumstances do they do so?</p>
<p>At my daughter’s school, when students get deferred from EA they usually write a letter describing all the great things they’ve done since they submitted their EA application and indicating their continued high interest in the college.</p>
<p>The college counselors there may contact admissions offices directly at various points during the admissions process, but only if they feel the contact will be valuable (such as a student just achieved a major accomplishment not included in the application, a student just decided a particular college is their number one choice, or if the counselor has a personal relationship with someone at the college). It’s likely in the above case that none of these things is true, and the call would pretty much be a waste of time for both the counselor and the admissions officer.</p>
<p>The interesting thing is that the college counselor my friend mentioned does not advocate for his kids in any circumstances. What’s more, my friend described this non-advocacy position as a general rule without limited exceptions for all the students at his daughter’s prep school. </p>
<p>For better or worse, my friend feels that the $200,000 he has paid for his daughter’s education merits this advocacy, especially because the school touts its college matriculation rates. By contrast, I don’t think a paying student should be given preferential treatment over a financial aid student in this or any regard. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, this school’s policy surprised me. Hence, my questions.</p>
<p>Many parents do feel that their money should extend to the privilege of a GC going above and beyond for their kids. Remember, the GC already wrote what is probably the best letter she could, for that kid. If there was college contact (during a rep visit or if the rep made some call,) the GC may have had some kind words about your friend’s kid. But they mostly work hard to be FAIR to all their students.</p>
<p>Adcoms have seen it all. The right case for the GC to contact is if the kid suddenly wins a major prestigious contest or honor. “I wanted you to know what we just learned, be able to incorporate it in your review.” Not ordinary pushing.</p>
<p>My kids’ GC was old, dear friends with the admissions dean at one school D1 applied to. She made it crystal clear it would not be ethical to use her pull- not for the school’s official ongoing relationship with the college- and not for D1.</p>
<p>I can sense your frustration. Our oldest guy (then a freshman) attended a when a colleague had a senior son at the same school. My colleague’s son was deferred EA at his first choice. I don’t know about the correspondence with the GC but I do know my colleague was on the phone the next day with the headmaster who was an alumni of the deferred college. Colleague was told by the HM that he was not going to make a phone call to his Alma Mater. The next day the parents were on the road to the school demanding a meeting with the HM. They got their meeting and the HM did call the college. The boy still did not get accepted, not even after regular decision. Hearing about all of this for 72 hours straight, I initially sided with my colleague. The next year I heard the other side of the story, which was basically the kid was shooting too high. The HM used up (wasted) his trump card for that year on that particular school on a kid he knew would not make it in. Despite the drama the kid ended up graduating from a terrific university and is doing very very well. Fast forward to my oldest who applied ED1 at his first choice and got deferred. Needless to say he was annoyed and watched his classmates get ED to schools that he felt they should have been rejected or at least deferred (so he thinks). He applied ED2 to a tougher college. The college AO called his GC and inquired about my son. The GC did his brokering and my guy got in. Besides being his GC, he was also his dorm master so he was able to shed a favorable light on the him outside the classroom (a boarding school plus).</p>
<p>Fast forward to second guy now a senior at a different school. My understanding is that the rule of thumb is the GC is allowed 1 phone call to each college for each kid. That’s not hard fast rule by no means. Does not mean the GC calls every single school, just the ones that need the call if they really feel it will push the envelope over the edge. A big side note, during revisits 4 years ago, I saw the HM working the phones. At the time, I thought that made perfect sense but I understand now that it is not the norm. As for the GC getting one call, I honestly don’t know if that’s her rule or the colleges. I was busy studying the preliminary college list and not paying attention. The boarding school process I got, the college process plays by rules that can be considered unbalanced , unfair or insane depending on your perspective. Learning the rules and navigating the system is all part of the game. There was no applying ED this time around. Second guy was initially unsure where he wanted to go. We’re in the waiting mode with fingers crossed. Meantime, if push comes to shove I do expect the GC or HM will pick up the phone if need be. </p>
<p>It works the other way around too. The colleges do call up the schools. It happened for the first guy and already for the second. Without jinxing it all too much, I think I now have a pretty good idea how it will all pan out in the end. It’s just his first choice is going to be very tough and isn’t that usually the case.</p>
<p>Thanks lookingforward and ops for your interesting comments. </p>
<p>Although I am not riding the roller coaster otherwise known as the college application process, I am an interested onlooker. So, the variance in the advocacy policies at different schools intrigues me, especially as they seem to range from the “no call” rule at the school my friend’s daughter attends to the “one call” rule ops helpfully describes.</p>
<p>As college matriculation is one of the many important important factors parents and students weigh in choosing a prep school, there should perhaps be greater transparency on this issue. I say this because I think many of us may uncritically assume that prep schools play a larger advocacy role in the college admission process than they do.</p>
<p>I’m also curious about whether and to what extent prep schools may sacrifice the best interests of individual students in favor of their overall matriculation statistics. For example, do prep schools disproportionately allocate their resources to help top students get into Ivy League schools? If so, does this adversely impact lower ranked students?</p>
<p>jmilton, now you’re opening up a deep can of worms. College guidance at elite schools is anything but equitable, and completely political. Just.like.admissions.</p>
<p>Yes, counselors can call admissions. Some have more impact with those calls than others, some can do so more effectively with some colleges than others, and they can and will advocate for some students and not others. A parent putting pressure on a counselor who does not offer to make such a call could be doing more harm than good. All that counselor has to say is “crazy parent is pushing me” and that may be the end of the kid’s chances. If a counselor can do something, s/he will do so most of the time and in the cases that s/he won’t, pushing is not likely to do any good. As the parent, you have no idea who else has applied from that school to that college and what communication has transpired, and there may be a lot going on to which you will not be privy. Throwing your weight around is more likely to cause resentment than do any good. </p>
<p>But, yes, any GC can call the Admissions office of any college, any time that GC so pleases, and will very likely get an officer to speak personally to him/ I’ve seen this over a more than 15 year time span, and I’ve yet to see or hear of any rules set in stone. </p>
<p>Going to an elite private school for high school is not always an advantage for selective college admissions. It can be in certain situations, but not in others and you often have no idea where your child will be in this scenario when you make the decision to take the private school route.</p>
<p>College admisions is political? I’d say, for the private colleges, more like “self-serving.” Meaning, their needs trump how much a kid- or his family- want him at that college. The number of applicants pulled in by some connection is more limited than most think.</p>
<p>The advantages to prep are not always more than at a super public hs. It depends on the school. I’ve seen cases where they do intense SAT and AP test prep, deliver all sorts of leadership experience, facilitate early research or pre-professional opportunities. And, the LoRs are usually carefully written to tout whatever they can about the kid. At some, the academics go broader and deeper, with some nicely high reasoning and analytical standards. At some, there will be manipulations of class rank (eg, a handful of vals, funky ways of assessing the “top 5%.”) At others, may as well save the money and go public.</p>
<p>My take is that the less impressive kids are carefully shepherded toward certain sorts of colleges, where they can be happy and productive. That’s it’s own sort of win, too.</p>
<p>Understand the context at this time of year- adcoms barely have time to breathe. They are interested in relationships with schools- maintaining them and opening new doors- but they can’t take a slew of calls. They’re reading apps. Imagine if a slew of GCs from a large number of preps or publics were all making that one call on Johnny’s or Susie’s behalf.</p>
<p>There’s a two-way deal between adcoms and GCs- you play fair with us and we’ll respect when you have a solid reason to contact us.</p>
<p>Two interrelated issues:
1- parents think because they are paying big $ that the GCs are their college concierges; that attitude ignores #2
2- the GCs have their own professional relationships with the colleges that they need to maintain in order to be effective providers of good matches . . and the prep schools ALSO have interests is being able to provide well-fitted applicants to colleges. </p>
<p>A special call to Admissions for a student that is not a good fit for that school (even though the parents want the kid to go there) will degrade the GC’s future ability to get well-fitted students into that school.</p>
<p>At the prep school our second kid attended the GC’s only “followed” about 160 schools, and if there was an application going to a school outside of that set it was chancier, because there was no track record already established. Ongoing professional relationships between GCs and adminssions offices matter greatly, and it’s risky for an GC to have a policy of calling whenever the “customer” wants it. </p>
<p>Additionally, one GC told us that there were some, shall we say, tepid relationships between some colleges and some prep schools due to past cultural differences between the institutions. </p>
<p>If you look at the profile of acceptances at prep schools, ouy wills clumps and gaps that reflect all those realtionships </p>
<p>How some of us love to pretend that it all is reducible to “thems who pays gets to call the shots.”</p>
<p>I agree with Kei-o-lei. Though kids who went to the school where my kids attended did have some advantages with certain colleges, it was not with a huge number of them, and it was not all kids. Yes, there was picking and choosing, and hard feelings when it was discerned. I know a mom who will not pay a dime to this school or have anything else to do with it, so hard were the feelings due to the way things went during the college process. </p>
<p>All three college counselors at the school had worked in small selective college admissions offices and so knew a number of those in admissions quite well. There was always a select school Adcom featured in the Parent’s meeting, and yes, a disproportionate number of kids did get it highly selective schools as compared to most public schools. Especially the small LACs. ALso kids in the second quintile gradewise still had a shot to get into Ivies and other highly selective schools, when that is often not the case. The school’s rigor was known in certain college circles and some quarter was given for it. The GCs could ask and seemed to get some internal equity in that if legacy with certain stats was an accept, a non legacy with better stats sometimes could get in on those coat tails due to GC intervention. But all of this was unpredictable. </p>
<p>The other area where there seemed to be better than average success was getting off wait lists. A lot of kids, more than I would have predicted from the stats got off waitlists from highly selective schools. Also any URM or someone from a disadvantaged back ground or first generation, really got a leg up. College are well aware that the kids from these rigorous schools are likely to be well prepared for college and this shows in the way they look at high risk admissions.</p>
<p>But adcoms also hate the silver spoon syndrome and that can be a problem for admissions. A B from Elite Prep does not an A from Public High make.</p>
<p>I agree with Lookingforward’s last paragraph. It is a two way street coupled with working relations or building relations. I do believe the GC have my sons best interest at heart. So let me rephrase what I said earlier, if need be I’ll ask if it would help if the GC or HM would call and take their advice accordingly. But, I’m confident they already would have called if they felt it necessary and would actually help when the time comes. The buttons have all been pushed. Chill as my guys say.</p>
<p>Jmilton, it’s rather a strange time to request a GC to call. Wouldn’t the time and effort have been better spent on making certain the kid had chosen appropriate colleges for RD? If the student is waitlisted at the beginning of April, perhaps that would be a better time for the GC to call (if at all)?</p>
<p>The GC also knows who’s applying to same college. He or she also knows if it would do any good to push one child rather than others. There’s a risk of annoying the college by being too pushy at the wrong time, I would think.</p>
<p>Not at all. The request was a reasonable one. A demand would not have been reasonable, but when one is deferred, it would be very nice, if any way possible, to find out what would make a difference. If the GPA is on the low side, and the student has been showing a great upward trend, asking for a copy of the transcript breaking the grades into quarters from junior and senior year, showing true consistent upward trend could be useful rather than that one quarter grade that the school has for senior year and the year ends for junior year. Another rec, take an SAT 2 there is concern about a weakness. There are some things that could make a difference for a deferred student. If the GC felt it would make any difference and felt comfortable calling, s/he certainly could.</p>
<p>It 's impossible to know whether this GC just didn’t want to do this, or doesn’t feel like it would help in this case. He may not know the school or the admissions directors there. How is he treating other student’s apps? Is he new? How does he usually operate? All of these things can hone in on the reason. IT could well be that the GC is not that good. My one son got a new GC, that I had changed, because she was, frankly an idiot, and made several stupid incorrect statements that culminated in that move. She was replaced the following year, but pity those who had their kids in her hands that one and only year she was at the school. </p>
<p>Sometimes the couselors at a school have gotten confidential info from an admissions office that they are asked not to share. I know this for a fact for certain situations. But that doesn’t mean they know something about a whole other school or person. They are not going to share the info with you as your kid is just one of a long line that will be going through the process.</p>
<p>As mentioned above, my original question arose from a conversation I had with a friend, one in which he advised that the college counselors at his daughter’s school do not call colleges to personally advocate for students under any circumstances. In short, his daughter’s prep school has a no call policy, and there are no exceptions to it. Is it fair to conclude that this no call policy is idiosyncratic? Or do other schools follow it as well?</p>
<p>^I think this “no call” policy is not typical of the BSs. At a college meeting held by the guidance department for junior parents who were just starting the process, I was curious and asked almost the same question – if a child was put on a waiting list, would GCs pick up the phone and advocate for them. The response from the GC was a definite yes. Though the question was posed from standpoint of being wait listed rather than after EA deferred, it was clear that GCs would consider calling AOs, though I suspect that it really must be on case by case basis. I also think the points made by others above are considered by the GC (who else has chosen this school as a first choice, etc., and how student compares to others from that BS who are applying to same college). It is fair to assume that a GC cannot push for every student in the same way, or it would lessen his/her credibility and relationship with the AO down the road.</p>
<p>Jmilton- I’ve never heard of a prep school with a “no call” policy. Is it possible that they tod the parents that for another reason? Even public schools call…</p>
<p>As far I believe college counsellors are uniquely positioned as the school professionals for guiding all students toward college readiness, marshaling forces from across the school, district and community. Its not part of their duty to advocate any child for admission in another school.</p>