<p>And just a note on Periwinkle’s comment about the SAT–agree, but if I’m reading the profile right, it’s likely that the top 20-30 percent of Exeter students–including nearly all the student athletes–have SAT’s in that range.</p>
<p>
Periwinkle, with all due respect, this sounds like an anecdote too. I think a more accurate description should be that elite colleges do admit a lot of “early bloomers from wealthy families” from everywhere. The question is whether the most selective schools proportionallyplace more of those non hooked students who have demonstrated high capabilities through their academic and extracurricular achievements to the most selective colleges as well. The answer, from the data as well as anecdotes I have access to as a member the school community, is yes. Why shouldn’t they? They hand pick the most capable student from all backgrounds, which are exactly what elite colleges are looking for. What I am trying to say here is that while elite boarding schools may not increase one’s chance of getting in the most selective colleges, one shouldn’t think that because he’s not from a wealthy family he’s doomed to fail in top boarding schools. When Yale admits 20 kids from Andover, you can bet those 20 are kids from a variety of backgrounds instead of an all star team born with a silver spoon in mouth!</p>
<p>What Benley said. There’s no magic number here–the top of each of the various recruiting pools (pools we may or may not have our fingers on) get in (IF they apply). But I don’t know who could look at the matriculation statistics of the top schools and think that they are failing their students. Schools and students have a broader view than they did fifty years ago about what a “top” school looks like, and that’s all to the good, IMO.</p>
<p>@pwalsh. “with the improvement in public schools”.
I attended public school in the 1970’s and later taught for 10 years in the public schools. In my experience and in my literature review, there has been a great decline in the quality of US public schools over the last 40 years.</p>
<p>Going through the college application process with my BS child, it’s hard not to feel at a disadvantage vs. his well-heeled classmates. Not only do many of them benefit from legacies at the more competitive schools and often the type of wealth and connections that make them development cases at these colleges, but we’ve been surprised by the extent of expensive outside tutors and private college counselors many of his classmates have. Perhaps its just the stress of admissions season, but he’s feeling at a distinct disadvantage in the process. I guess it is what it is and time will tell over the next several months. :(</p>
<p>We are in a similar boat. Agree that BS classmates who are double legacies from HYPMS have a distinct advantage. I do worry that the old adage applies, “It’s not what you know, but who you know.”</p>
<p>Last weekend, my son and I were on the Hotchkiss campus attending various school events. At lunch, we sat at a table with an old THS grad from the Class of '49. He told my son, who is Hotchkiss Class of '12, that 56 kids from the Hotchkiss Class of '49 applied to Yale. 55 were accepted. </p>
<p>Times have indeed changed for prep schools since 1949, but over 20% of THS grads from my son’s class of 2012 are now in Ivy League schools. Attending top prep schools still helps kids get into top colleges and universities. My son swears that he would not be in a Ivy League school if he had not attended Hotchkiss…and I tend to think that he is right.</p>
<p>Here are some interesting college stats. From 2006 to 2010, the percentage of fullpay students at uber-selective colleges has declined, except at Dartmouth where percentage of fullpays has increased. It explains the stampede of rich kids at DS’s school who have matric’d there recently, including a development case kid who got off WL when parents donated a new bldg.
[The</a> Disappearing Full-Pay Student | Intead](<a href=“http://www.intead.com/disappearing/]The”>http://www.intead.com/disappearing/)</p>
<p>Conserve, about 50% of Hotchkiss grads attend the top 25 national universities and the top 15 liberal arts colleges, according to the rankings of “US News & World Report”. About 70% of THS grads attend the top 50 universities and the top 30 liberal arts colleges, as classified by such rankings. </p>
<p>St. Paul’s, which appears to be one of the very best prep schools in college placement, has about 60% and 80% rates here, respectively. </p>
<p>So, again, top prep schools help their grads get into top colleges and universities.</p>
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<p>Or the kids who were headed there anyway chose to attend BS.</p>
<p>CMom, how does anyone know if a kid is going to get into a top college until that college actually accepts that child? You may think he or she might make it into the land of glory, but you really don’t know until the college extends to that high school student its notice of acceptance. Based upon the incredibly strong college acceptance percentages enjoyed by top prep schools, it seems quite reasonable to think that a student increases his/her odds of getting into a top college by attending a top prep school. If so, then top prep schools are helpful in getting their graduates into top colleges. How do argue to the contrary in light of the fairly overwhelming college matriculation percentages achieved by the top shelf prep schools? If you think diferently, what is the factual basis for your belief?</p>
<p>toombs: I do agree with you that none of us will ever know if any particular kid will get into a top college until a college accepts that child. However, the incoming class of each BS is highly cherry-picked; it’s not the same general population going into your average PS, so I say you’re not comparing apples to apples. That’s all.</p>
<p>Many here argue that the top kids in PS have just as good, if not better, chances at top colleges as BS kids. Hypothetically, if you could create a BS out of just those top PS kids, would you argue that it was the BS that helped them into a top college?</p>
<p>All I’m saying is that top-college material exists in BS, PS, charters, magnets, etc. It certainly doesn’t hurt to have excellent teachers and small class sizes and all the advantages of a resource-rich BS. Certainly, our kids are privileged and have most of the obstacles taken out of their way. In that sense, BS probably tips the scales. But I think that the BS pools are disproportionately filled with very strong swimmers. It’s kind of a chicken-and-egg argument. Does BS turn out strong swimmers, or do strong swimmers go to BS? Not sure you can prove one way or the other.</p>
<p>toombs61- Where are you getting the information regarding St Paul’s School- Based on the matriculation statistics posted on their website, the list does not seem that impressive to me. The schools that are bold face represent 3 or more students attended over the past 4 years.</p>
<p>firstgen: What about the list doesn’t look impressive to you? Here’s the list that I think Toombs is looking at, with the exact numbers from 2008-2011.</p>
<p>[St</a>. Paul’s School ~ Matriculation](<a href=“http://www.sps.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=6543&rc=0]St”>http://www.sps.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=6543&rc=0)</p>
<p>My mistake, looking at St Paul’s Baltimore, Not anything impressive and that is what motivated me to comment. I stand corrected.</p>
<p>I wondered if that might be it. :)</p>
<p>On another note, an interesting article about the craziness of college admissions from Stanford. [Stanford</a> Magazine - Article](<a href=“Stanford Magazine - Article”>Stanford Magazine - Article)</p>
<p>
Believe it or not, there are actually other non-slacker schools out there:
Carnegie Mellon
U Chicago
Duke
Georgetown
Johns Hopkins
U Michigan
Middlebury
NYU
Northwestern
Reed
Trinity
Bowdoin
Swarthmore
Tufts
US Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
UVA
Wesleyan,
to name a few…</p>
<p>And for upper-middle class families, money talks-- the Ivies don’t give merit aid, so it’s a more attractive proposition to enroll in Vanderbilt or Johns Hopkins w merit money, than Brown without. Don’t confuse matriculation numbers with acceptance numbers.</p>
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</p>
<p>How do we permanently marquee this in the night sky?</p>
<p>Here’s my take:</p>
<p>All other things being equal, a student will often fare better in the college admission process if s/he graduates in the top 1 percent of a public school or the top 5 percent of a good private day school instead of the bottom 70 percent of even an elite prep school. </p>
<p>Many, if not most, of the students who graduate below the top 30 percent of their elite prep school class would have graduated in the top 1 percent of their public high school or the top five percent of their good private day school.</p>
<p>Even those who graduate in the top 30 percent of their elite prep school may hurt their chances of college admission. Thus, the student in the 25th percentile of his class at St Paul’s who matriculates to Cornell or Northwestern might have been admitted to Columbia or MIT if he had graduated number one from his public high school.</p>
<p>As a result, many, if not most, students may hurt their college admission prospects by attending an elite prep school.</p>
<p>Here’s the moral of the story: </p>
<p>Don’t choose a prep school based on college matriculation statistics alone. Attending a good prep school can immeasurably improve your child’s life. But it won’t guarantee admission to an elite college. Lest you think otherwise, just do the math.</p>
<p>You have it right jmilton. The prep school experience should be an end onto itself. Regardless of where the student goes to college, they will be well prepared for college and life beyond. There are plenty of lesser known schools that will seek outstanding students in the lower 70% and give them money to entice their enrollment. Personally, I believe that the 4 years of high are the most important in laying the foundation for life long learning. The skills these kids develop will make college seem like a breeze and they will carry over into the world of work. I believe if the AO detects an obsession with matriculation statistics, it can count against you.</p>