<p>Hello, I'm a recent high school graduate with a personal situation that is at the moment preventing me from attending universities-that I've been accepted to. I'm reluctantly being forced to attend 2 years of CC before moving onto university, which in my opinion is a VERY big mistake and a major setback as far as my medical career goes. I've recently discovered from the student doctor network that my dream medical school, Johns Hopkins has a zero-tolerance policy on prerequisites completed at a CC. On the other hand I've been looking through some of these premed forums and the debate between prereqs taken at CC's having some significant effect or NOT on whether medical schools will accept you is 50/50. A handfull of individuals believe where you take your prereqs doesn't matter to the schools as long as you have outstanding grades and maintain a healthy GPA, the other handful of students disagree with this...I don't know what believe and I'm torn both ways. I NEED UNBIASED ADVICE AND HELP because I'm on the verge of registering for classes that I need for my major and I DO NOT want to make any hasty decisions !!!!! PLEASE HELP! My career as a physician depends on it! Please and thank you in advance!</p>
<p>My opinion: this debate is almost not worth having, since you’ve already stated that you must attend the CC for personal/family/whatever reasons. So whether it would “look bad” or not doesn’t really matter, since the decision is already made. Does that make sense?</p>
<p>So I think the question should be, “What can I do to minimize the potentially negative impact of taking prereqs at a CC?.” My advice to you–and virtually every other premed out there–is the following:</p>
<p>-You need a great GPA. At least >3.7. You need to take hard classes. If you take your prereqs at the CC (my advice would be to minimize the number of premed classes you take there, just to be on the safe side), then taking upper level classes in relevant departments at your university would logically offset the potential negative aspect of the prereq at the CC. (Eg: An A in bio101 at a CC would be enhanced by an A in physiology at a university)</p>
<p>-You need to do well on the MCAT. I’d shoot for a score of around 35, which would put you toward the better test takers, and would further demonstrate that you are academically capable of medical school.</p>
<p>-You need to do all the extracurriculars other premeds do, and you need to do them well. Look for a variety of high quality experiences in research, shadowing, clinical work, volunteering, leadership, employment, hobbies, etc. If these aren’t all available where you are, do the ones you can do, and do the others later (perhaps after you transfer).</p>
<p>-You need to develop relationships with professors that can go to bat for you and attest to how great you are. Ideally these would be people who have known you for a long time. Since your university is likely going to be writing your committee letter for med school, you should get recommendation letters from faculty at your university. This may pose a problem since you won’t have much time to get to know them compared to students who started out at that school. With that in mind, you should hit the ground running when you transfer–take challenging classes, get to know tough professors, figure out who can write your letters, etc.</p>
<p>-You need to be able to communicate very well–essays and interviews are all about selling yourself and charisma, in addition to their content. Don’t be afraid to talk about the compelling reasons you had to change your college plans. Don’t sell yourself short or make excuses either. Know why you want to go into this field and be able to demonstrate–by your academic record, involvement, and recommendations–that it is the best field for you.</p>
<p>In all, you need to prove to the adcom that investing in your future is in their best interest. You can do this by developing a convincing array of classes, experiences, recommendations, etc etc and communicating about those elements effectively and with charisma.</p>
<p>(As for JH being your dream school: There’s nothing wrong with aspiring to go to JHU. The problem is, most high school students think med school admissions is analogous to college admissions, in that there are various “tiers” of medical schools. There really aren’t. All med schools in the US grant the same degree, teach virtually the same curriculum, have virtually the same set of clinical rotations, etc. All graduates must pass the same licensing exams and all graduates are certified to practice anywhere in the country. From an applicant perspective, your best chance for admission is to your home state’s public school, which is also likely your least expensive option. Another thing to keep in mind is that all med schools are tremendously competitive–you’re probably looking at a 20% acceptance rate as the most generous acceptance rate, and the competition for those spots is fierce considering it takes so much work to even get to the point of applying. </p>
<p>That’s not to say there’s no difference between med schools or that dreaming to go to JHU is foolish. I just wanted to point out that you may believe there are more differences among med schools than there really are.)</p>
<p>Assuming you will transfer out of CC after 2 years, make a plan.</p>
<p>Physics, math and gen chem are probably OK at CC. I would reserve orgo and advanced bio for University.</p>
<p>The reason med school don’t like reqs at CCs is that Uni students used to take them at CCs over the summer in order to get higher grades than they could anticipate at their Unis. It was unfair and students often learned less.</p>
<p>You are not doing it for that reason. It should not be a big problem. The worst thing that may happen is that you may have to squish orgo and advanced bio in at Uni during your junior year, along with MCAT prep and applications, and you may want to spread it out a little and complete pre-med in 5, not 4 years. Most applicants these days do that (you could plan a research GAP year after undergraduate degree to interview during, for example). </p>
<p>Do well at CC, volunteer, shadow, try to get involved in research, get into a good Uni in 2 years and you will have a fine application and a good story of overcoming adversity to boot.</p>
<p>Kristin5792, Thank you. I’m glad to say that I’ve taken into account 97% of what you’ve said prior to posting this thread. It’s just that I want to do EVERYTHING in my power to ensure I meet the criteria fundamentally for all the desired schools I plan on applying to, as would any premed who’s serious about their career in the medical field. I just don’t want the adcoms to have any reason to render me unprepared or uncapable of handling medical school course work because I happened to go to a CC first rather than a 4-year…does that make sense? I know that I have what it takes to give me a certain edge as an applicant and I’ve already set the bar EXTREMELY high for myself ever since I’ve decided to become a physician. I’ve spent months and months of my senior year in high school doing extensive research upon research on what it truly takes to become a physician and I know in my heart that it is my true calling and I’ve practically encoded it into my DNA to work my ass off and fight tooth and nail to get there. I appreciate ALL of your advice! Thank you again!</p>
<p>Thank you 2prepmom! I’ll definitely take into account all of your advice. I have a question about the plan to do 5 years of undergrad with the 5th year being a research/GAP year, would I get advice on where/how to conduct said research from the premed advisors at the Uni I attend?</p>
<p>What exactly is JHU’s policy? Would it include English classes? Math? All the Chems? </p>
<p>They may not let you use CC only credits, but what if you take the “higher up” courses at your univ?</p>
<p>Kristen is right. Don’t focus too much on ONE particular med school. The chances of you getting into that ONE particular med school is too slim. </p>
<p>All US MD schools are excellent. The education is flat. It’s not like undergrad. Med schools that are situated on lowish ranked undergrad campuses are still excellent. </p>
<p>If you want to keep the JHU option open, then you’ll most definitely have to do a glide year. That could mean taking your prereqs your last 2 years of college. If that’s impossible, then accept that JHU won’t be an option …and that’s still super OK.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids, when you say glide year are you referring to a 5th year of undergrad?</p>
<p>The application process for medical school school takes a full year. A glide year isn’t a 5th year of undergrad; it’s the year between graduation and starting med school while one is engaged in the application process.</p>
<p>A glide is necessary for any applicant who applies to medical school after completing undergrad (regardless of whether it take 4 or 5 years) before applying.</p>
<p>A glide year is not at all unusual and particularly benefits individuals who transfer from a CC by allowing them to have 2 full years of grades from a 4 year college on their application.</p>
<p>WayOutWestMom, so I’d basically be “taking a year off” per say? or am I way off on that one? Also what classes in particular should I completely 100% REFRAIN from taking at a CC for the time being? Also by chance are there any Universities in particular that you would reccomend as far as “academically challenging premed prereqs”? ( I already have some in mind I just want to hear someone else’s opinion)</p>
<p>
Absolutely no school requires you use intro coursework for the pre-reqs. There is a reason the requirements are written as “one year of X” instead of “one year of intro to X.”</p>
<p>Also, always go to the source: [url=<a href=“http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admissions/md/process/requirements.html]Requirements[/url”>MD Program]Requirements[/url</a>] I don’t see anything about community college but I do see that the institution needs to be accredited and I assume all CCs are but you could double check by asking your CC or contacting the accreditation department listed on the JHU website.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter if you take pre reqs at Cc. In California, to transfer, you have to have to take pre reqs. I believe the general idea is that it looks bad if you are enrolled in a 4 Year and using cc courses as an easier way out. </p>
<p>However if you go to cc for two years, transfer then apply to med school, it would not be a big deal. Many people I know have done this and have gone to top medical schools. Yes there are some medical schools that will not take Cc credit such as Yale, but do you really want to go to a school that is so far stuck up that it thinks just because students go to a community college, that they are not on par with their peers? I wouldn’t. </p>
<p>Not everyone can go to a 4 year straight out of high school for various reasons.</p>
<p>I’m not 100% sure what JHU’s policy states specifically on credit for prereqs at CC’s but I’ve read threads from medical applicants and it seems so that they do in fact enforce this policy but I wouldn’t let that prevent me from submitting an application. With this in mind, I have an adequate list of 15 prospective medical schools-which are 15 of the top schools in the nation, for which I’ve done extensive research on and I have a good idea of where I need to be academically and statistically to meet all of their individual requirements. There’s a big chance Hopkins won’t workout considering my circumstances so I’ll make sure to have PLENTY of options!</p>
<p>i<em>wanna</em>be_Brown, absolutely I don’t plan on taking any intro to courses whatsoever and I’ve thought about checking whether the CC I’m attending is considered an accredited institution or not, I would think it is but who knows. Thanks!</p>
<p>bbbran, I agree! If they’re not willing to look past whether I went to a 4-year or not then it’s not worth the trouble. Thanks!</p>
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<p>From academics perhaps, though you could enroll in a graduate degree program, I suppose.</p>
<p>A glide or gap year is not a “year off”. It a period of time to engage in productive activities–like being a clinical study coordinator, a medical scribe at a hospital or private medical practice, ER dept tech, research lab assistant. (BTW, all of these activities are strongly valued by medical school adcomms so you’re not wasting your time. Med school admission is about so much more than just what courses you take.)</p>
<p>Depending on where you live (CA has its own requirement w/r/t transferring to state public unis) I’d avoid taking Ochem and biochem and any upper level biology coursework. Take your GEs (general education) requirements and other pre-reqs like freshman writing, calc, stats, psych, sociology. Gen chem will usually be OK so long as you follow it up with Ochem at a 4 year college.</p>
<p>There are number of colleges that offer challenging pre med coursework. You can find challenge at nearly any college in the US. (You just have to go looking for it.)</p>
<p>A personal tale: I have 2 kiddos: one to went to state uni ranked in the 150-200 range; one went to a top 30 research U. Guess what? Both are in medical school. Both had plentiful academic challenge; both had strong, mentoring relationships with professors; both had interesting research opportunities and publications; both had a wide range of meaningful volunteer service activities. It’s not the school that make a successful applicant–it’s the applicant him or herself.</p>
<p>BTW, USNWR’s rankings of medical schools is pretty bogus. Their methodology is suspect and not especially a good measure of quality. Don’t let it influence your thinking.</p>
<p>Take a look at this article from the Journal of Academic Medicine:</p>
<p>The Fallacy of Medical School Rankings</p>
<p><a href=“http://academicmedicineblog.org/2013/07/10/the-fallacy-of-medical-school-rankings/[/url]”>http://academicmedicineblog.org/2013/07/10/the-fallacy-of-medical-school-rankings/</a></p>
<p>I completely agree with taking some of the humanities prereq requirements that are required/reccomended at most med schools today and given the fact that (correct me if Im wrong) the new 2015 MCAT covers material dealing with psychology,sociology .etc. That being said is it safe to say that I should take these humanities prereqs during the time I’m enrolled at the CC-along with English/writing, Calc/Stats??</p>
<p>Psych and sociology are social sciences, not humanities. (Humanities are philosophy, religion, history, foreign languages, the classics, literature, music, art and sometimes rhetoric.)</p>
<p>The 2015 MCAT will indeed have an entire section devoted to the Psychological, Social, and Biological Foundations of Behavior</p>
<p>(see: <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/testsections/[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/testsections/</a>)</p>
<p>I’d say it’s fine to take your social sciences at the CC since right now most medical school have not yet solidified their social science requirements for admission. (Indiana, Oklahoma, JHU, USC, UDub, Minnesota, Loyola and a few other med schools are among those who have.)</p>
<p>Ok! Thank you so much, I appreciate everyone’s help! Btw are psych and sociology the only 2 social sciences reccomended by most med schools? I’ve looked at all of the requirements but I just wanna be sure.</p>
<p>A few require X number of credits in social sciences–typically 8-12 credits–without specifying which courses. One or two require “upper level” (i.e. above intro level) humanities credits. Some require additional math classes. (One program at HMS requires math thru linear algebra.) Some require A&P. </p>
<p>Requirements are different at different schools. And the requirements can and do change on a yearly basis.</p>
<p>If you really want to one place to see what various different med schools require, buy access to the MSAR (Medical School Admission Requirements) thru AMCAS. It’s $25, IIRC.</p>
<p>Or you can check with your CC’s library to see if they have a subscription to it.</p>
<p>Ok I’ll look into the MSAR. Just one more question, would it be bad to take 1 or 2 foreign languages at the CC? also, I’m taking a developmental writing class at the CC-would that fall into the literature-humanities category?</p>
<p>So far these are the ONLY 3 classes I’m registered for at the CC:</p>
<p>Computer Science
an educational success class called EDUC-1300-Learning Framework
Developmental Writing</p>
<p>In addition to these 3 classes, what other classes are “SAFE” to take at the CC-in terms of not affecting my med school app with adcomms, but still preparing me for particular portions of the 2015 MCAT by supplying me with the info I need?</p>
<p>If you’re interested in foreign languages-- certainly take them. It’s a neither here nor there issue w/r/t med school.</p>
<p>Developmental writing would not be considered a humanities-literature class. </p>
<p>Generally speaking, any course that is labelled “developmental” is considered remedial and while it will be included in your GPA, will not count towards fulfilling degree requirements (or med school admission requirements).</p>