@MiamiDAP I’m getting a vibe that you may not be a huge fan of the No Child Left Behind program?! :-q
“Take for example the University of Wyoming. In-state tuition is free. The retention rate is terrible. A lot of the students don’t know what they want to do and a 4-year school isn’t the right fit. Since it’s close to free (housing + expenses are small), the students have an easy come easy go attitude. They drop out.”
There’s tons of dropouts and huge amounts of money wasted at the 4 year college level. So to me it makes sense to move resources away from the 4 year schools.
Let the sorting out process happen at the less expensive level, which is 2 years of non-residential CC. We’d save tons by not over-investing in the inflated over-expensive 4 year college system.
Today’s workers need more skills and education than K-12. But most don’t need to attend 4 year colleges (at extremely high expense). A technical or associates degree makes more sense for most.
FYI, CC retention would SOAR if middle class kids started attending CCs (spurred by free) instead of routinely heading to 4 year schools. Retention is primarily a function of selectivity. Harvard graduates almost all of its students. If you sent those kids to a CC, they all would graduate from there too.
Don’t Pell grants already make CC free for the truly needy? Is this designed to motivate middle-class kids to work hard enough to get a C+ so CC is free?
University of Wyoming is not a good example. There are so many well paying oil-related jobs there that many students (especially those not that academically inclined) simply decide they’re better off working. My father-in-law was a college professor at a southern California state university which was often appalled at how many students gave up their studies once they landed those coveted full-time jobs at Disneyland, of all places…
Well at least its a step in the right direction… Although I doubt we will actually go through with the step.
The data clearly shows that students that attend 4 year colleges are far more likely to graduate in 6 years, than those that start at a local CC. You may improve retention at the CC level, but overall retention/graduation rates would drop.
Obama’s College Plan Bows to Elites
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-12/obamas-college-plan-bows-to-elites?alcmpid=view
article in higher ed which discusses many of the points raised in this thread
Tom Hanks NYT piece on how CC made him what he is today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/14/opinion/tom-hanks-on-his-two-years-at-chabot-college.html?ref=opinion&_r=0&smid=tw-nytimes
CC made him a famous actor? Not a good message, and highly unlikely. No-one is saying community college is a bad thing. It’s a very good thing, but that does not mean making it free for all is a good thing, at all. And, they are already filled with students so people are figuring out how to use this community resource currently. There are other actual problems to be solved.
Marie1234 are you saying that Tom Hanks cannot determine for himself if CC made him what he is today? And if he stands behind that CC DID make the difference for him, why is that not a good message?
Community colleges are “filled”? Not here.
When Tennessee implemented this plan, they had 35K applicants. http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/education/2014/10/10/apply-free-tennessee-community-college/17055583/
Funding education is a good thing.
Again, I agree CC is beneficial. But, knowing several kids at CC studying drama may be influencing me here. And, I don’t even mind them attending several CC’s and continuing to attend for nearing 6 years now for one of them as long as they pay for it. And, they are. And, it doesn’t cost much so that’s great. The article doesn’t really say much beyond I ike CC. Well, I like CC, too. But, that doesn’t have much to do with it needing to be free. And, sure funding education is a good thing. We fund education plenty right now and people are graduating high school unready. It’s not a funding problem. In some areas close to half of the CC kids are remedial and another big chunk are working adults. And yes, at least in my area they are full. Some, are crowded, in fact. Regional differences are another big reason they should stay local. And, they will. So, yeah. There’s nothing surprising about the fact that if something is free, people will take it. That doesn’t always mean it accomplishes anything.
It sure beats students, often ill prepared students, getting suckered into taking out loans for for-profit schools, not succeeding and then finding themselves with a boatload of debt they cannot handle.
I agree with that and have no idea why government loans are approved for people with no way of paying them back, especially to for profit schools which I also think have a place and are not all evil and useless. But, any schools, really. Those students getting themselves and their parents saddled with too much 4-year debt should be looking at CC’s and transfer options. They could save tens of thousands of dollars. Everybody with a 2.5 goes for free is not that at all.
I almost agree with everything you said, with the exception of giving any of the for profit schools a pass. I think they are scummy. JMO.
Close enough. Many are, but I got a pretty good first career out of one of them, too. Not everyone does, that’s for sure.
Does the data that says students at four year colleges are more likely to graduate in 6 years than CC students are take into account that the vast majority of students at CC are supporting themselves, rather than being supported? Since our elected representatives have pretty much decided that low-cost state schools are no longer important to us, CC is the only way a student can work his way through college (setting aside those students who get merit scholarships, etc.). My daughter’s boyfriend is an example of a kid who was never on a private-school path, who has supported himself (and most of his family) for the last ten years by working two jobs, and who is attending CC with a view to transferring his credits to SUNY, eventually. His task would be made vastly easier if his tuition were free, which would mean that he would become a more productive member of society that much more quickly. He could focus on his coursework, for one, instead of working from 8pm to 2 am fixing cars.
What was your first career in? Somehow DH’s name got on some list several years ago (no clue how- perhaps on the back of some race entry or some drawing or something??) and I cannot tell you how many calls we got from sales people thinking he was interested in pursuing a degree in something or other, completely unrelated to his field (some sort of med tech position, IIRC). These sales calls, from several of the “for profit” schools around here, were relentless. They called and called and called. If I took the call I did everything I could to try to get his name off these lists and to get them to stop calling. If it was on the VM I ignored it.We stopped answering any calls when our attempts to get them to stop calling and to get his name off the list were fruitless. It went on for a very long time, and several of the sales people were not exactly the most impressive individuals. My DH has an advanced degree in a totally different field. Don’t see him returning to get a degree as a med tech or lab tech. Now maybe a massage therapy class or two might be worth pursuing (these schools offer massage therapy certification too)… hmmm…
My husband got calls like that for a while, too. It was pretty baffling. But when I told then he was much more worried about retirement than exploring career options, they stopped calling. lol.
“My daughter’s boyfriend is an example of a kid who was never on a private-school path, who has supported himself (and most of his family) for the last ten years by working two jobs, and who is attending CC with a view to transferring his credits to SUNY,”
If the President’s plan is similar to Tennessee’s plan, your daughter’s boyfriend wouldn’t qualify. 
You have to attend CC (or tech school) the fall after high school graduation, and you must attend full time (and earn your AA within 2 or 3 years). “Non-traditional” students wouldn’t be support under the President’s plan.